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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 23, 2008 10:42:27 GMT -5
With that said slick, from what i have seen, you are the only one who is trying to cause a fight here, and it has to stop nowI disagree. 90% of fanon, whether through art, fics or videos, only occur 'cause they're non-canon and don't appear in the show. And judging by the number of hits non-canon fan material gets, the fandom find it more interesting than the 10% of the canon fan creations that you see in the episodes every single episode. I mean, what more can canon fanart cover that hasn't already been shown in the episodes - aside from pr0n ;D Another person saying fanon is as valid as canon.
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Post by wallaceb on Mar 23, 2008 10:44:48 GMT -5
With that said slick, from what i have seen, you are the only one who is trying to cause a fight here, and it has to stop nowI disagree. perhaps, but others have said you are the most aggressive as well, not just me. so, let's get off this tangent and continue with the great conversation we were having before. i would like to see what other people think about why there is hate foe kigo.
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 23, 2008 10:47:15 GMT -5
perhaps, but others have said you are the most aggressive as well, not just me. Yeah. The people saying this are those who don't mind that K word. If they don't mind that k word then I really don't care about their view.
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Post by wallaceb on Mar 23, 2008 10:49:02 GMT -5
I really don't care about their view. then PLEASE stay out of the thread!
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Post by Nulla on Mar 23, 2008 10:57:51 GMT -5
ok ill have a stab....
me thinks probably most popular same sex ship round.... for me its quirky, but it works... alot of ppl have some great fanarts (from what ive seen over the yearish ive been into kp) depicting a vast range of interpretations from cute to a tad raunchy and the like and its not bad at all i must say.
im not gay, but im not homophobic, but id say there are alot of ppl who do ship kigo for sure.
a ship is a ship.... nothing else.... it ain't canon, but it ain't illegal.... its a like (or love) for someone or another and u cant dis them for that....
its like asif u get dissed for liking kp. how ud feel about that?
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 23, 2008 11:04:12 GMT -5
I really don't care about their view. then PLEASE stay out of the thread! I'm going to. It's not because of you telling me to though. I just want to make that clear. I don't want you to think it was you that kept me out of this thread.
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Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 23, 2008 11:15:25 GMT -5
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Post by Panther on Mar 23, 2008 11:34:03 GMT -5
Awww... -melts-
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Fusion Fox
Pink Sloth
READ THIS POST IN A MUMBLING BRITISH ACCENT
Not a bad problem to have if you ask me.
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Post by Fusion Fox on Mar 23, 2008 12:49:45 GMT -5
*pets bunny* I still don't understand why something imagined by two people [canon] is always right and cannot be argued with, whereas something imagined by another person [fanon] is the worst thing in the world and should be outlawed. Don't we all have the right to imagine and like what we want? It's all just shipping. Its all just taking a tv show and making it what we want it to be. My mind literally boggles at how people [from both sides] can be so close-minded. How do they react to real-world situations when people disagree with them?
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Post by nabusan on Mar 23, 2008 13:58:47 GMT -5
90% of fanon, whether through art, fics or videos, only occur 'cause they're non-canon and don't appear in the show. And judging by the number of hits non-canon fan material gets, the fandom find it more interesting than the 10% of the canon fan creations that you see in the episodes every single episode. I mean, what more can canon fanart cover that hasn't already been shown in the episodes - aside from pr0n ;D Another person saying fanon is as valid as canon. It's valid in its own sense, and it's different to canon. Fanon is CLEARLY inferior to canon, and the people who ship fanon accept that, but it is still valid. Just a different kind of valid. [That makes sense, honest!] Yeah. The people saying this are those who don't mind that K word. If they don't mind that k word then I really don't care about their view. LOL, he finally admits it. That's why you'll find your way of thinking pretty incompatible with this forum. We're open to everything and respect, listen and understand eachothers views, even the fundys. If you can't even care about other peoples opinions how do you expect us to care about yours? It's never ever a one-way street. And amp down on your attitude to wallaceb - he's not taking any sides, and he's a mod to boot.
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Post by Levelord on Mar 23, 2008 14:02:42 GMT -5
*Eats bunny* Whoops.... ummm..... was I meant to pet it?
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Post by Panther on Mar 23, 2008 14:07:47 GMT -5
Where'd the bunny go? Now I'm angry again!
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Post by wallaceb on Mar 23, 2008 14:08:36 GMT -5
please stay on topic
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2008 18:37:56 GMT -5
Just dropping in real quick...
My reasons for not being a fan of this particular pairing seem to have already been said by others, but here's a basic rundown, just in case I missed something.
First and foremost, I'm not a supporter of homosexuality. I feel no remorse for having such views, because it's my beliefs based on how I was raised. But don't try labeling me as a homophobic individual after reading this, because I have several friends (Nabu being one of them) and family members of different sexual orientations and don't believe them to be inferior in any way.
This leads to my next reason, which is the sexual orientation of the two characters involved. Kim and Shego have only shown interest in potential partners of the opposite sex. I've seen pages of arguments from Kigo shippers about this, most of which were based off either flawed interpretation of particular scenes or a general idea of the 'characters not knowing it yet'. Trying to use such logic to justify a pairing, especially to convince others of its validity, is pretty pointless because it can be used for almost any situation.
That said, Shego tries to kill Kim regularly, which really isn't a solid basis for a relationship. Should she have succeeded, I see her without pity or regret. Kim, on the other hand, probably would be the near-opposite because of her 'hero' status and upbringing. If any of her adversaries were to meet such a fate, I can see her attending their funerals.
And, of course, here comes the dreaded (and sometimes overused) word. Canon. It does matter. I hold the greatest respect for the VIPs and their decisions made throughout the series's run. When a couple is established in the original source material, I expect it to be respected by the fandom because it was a decision made by the creators in the best interest of the characters. By detracting from this decision, the Kigo pairing becomes about the interest and desires of its supporters, rather than the actual characters. This, I feel undermines the creators' intended direction and (indirectly) disrespectful.
These next couple paragraphs are based more on the Kigo fandom itself, rather than the pairing.
This one kinda follows my previous reasoning, except this has to deal with intentional disrespect. Posts I've seen by several Kigo shippers (they weren't the only ones but made up the majority) in regard to the VIPs and their decisions made in the finale were some of the most disgraceful I've seen. The thread was so heated that Mr. Loter ended up apologizing for the direction taken, something he should have NEVER had to do. A subsequent chat had shown his uneasiness, where he declined a question because he didn't want to 'mix it up' (<- paraphrased, can't remember the exact words) "with the Kigo shippers".
Lastly, I don't believe for a second that Kigo is "getting the short end of the stick". Fanfiction and fanart for the pairing is at an all-time high and seems more abundant than any other type at the moment. With the series ended, I like to read stories that stick closely to the source material, which has become more difficult lately. If anything, even though the KP fandom in general is starting to fade, the Kigo following looks stonger than ever.
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 23, 2008 23:18:38 GMT -5
And, of course, here comes the dreaded (and sometimes overused) word. Canon. It does matter. I hold the greatest respect for the VIPs and their decisions made throughout the series's run. When a couple is established in the original source material, I expect it to be respected by the fandom because it was a decision made by the creators in the best interest of the characters. By detracting from this decision, the Kigo pairing becomes about the interest and desires of its supporters, rather than the actual characters. This, I feel undermines the creators' intended direction and (indirectly) disrespectful.This one kinda follows my previous reasoning, except this has to deal with intentional disrespect. Posts I've seen by several Kigo shippers (they weren't the only ones but made up the majority) in regard to the VIPs and their decisions made in the finale were some of the most disgraceful I've seen. The thread was so heated that Mr. Loter ended up apologizing for the direction taken, something he should have NEVER had to do. A subsequent chat had shown his uneasiness, where he declined a question because he didn't want to 'mix it up' (<- paraphrased, can't remember the exact words) "with the Kigo shippers". Well said. I remember that chat. I felt bad for Steve.
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Post by danman007 on Mar 24, 2008 0:17:43 GMT -5
Just dropping in real quick... My reasons for not being a fan of this particular pairing seem to have already been said by others, but here's a basic rundown, just in case I missed something. First and foremost, I'm not a supporter of homosexuality. I feel no remorse for having such views, because it's my beliefs based on how I was raised. But don't try labeling me as a homophobic individual after reading this, because I have several friends (Nabu being one of them) and family members of different sexual orientations and don't believe them to be inferior in any way. This leads to my next reason, which is the sexual orientation of the two characters involved. Kim and Shego have only shown interest in potential partners of the opposite sex. I've seen pages of arguments from Kigo shippers about this, most of which were based off either flawed interpretation of particular scenes or a general idea of the 'characters not knowing it yet'. Trying to use such logic to justify a pairing, especially to convince others of its validity, is pretty pointless because it can be used for almost any situation. That said, Shego tries to kill Kim regularly, which really isn't a solid basis for a relationship. Should she have succeeded, I see her without pity or regret. Kim, on the other hand, probably would be the near-opposite because of her 'hero' status and upbringing. If any of her adversaries were to meet such a fate, I can see her attending their funerals. And, of course, here comes the dreaded (and sometimes overused) word. Canon. It does matter. I hold the greatest respect for the VIPs and their decisions made throughout the series's run. When a couple is established in the original source material, I expect it to be respected by the fandom because it was a decision made by the creators in the best interest of the characters. By detracting from this decision, the Kigo pairing becomes about the interest and desires of its supporters, rather than the actual characters. This, I feel undermines the creators' intended direction and (indirectly) disrespectful. These next couple paragraphs are based more on the Kigo fandom itself, rather than the pairing. This one kinda follows my previous reasoning, except this has to deal with intentional disrespect. Posts I've seen by several Kigo shippers (they weren't the only ones but made up the majority) in regard to the VIPs and their decisions made in the finale were some of the most disgraceful I've seen. The thread was so heated that Mr. Loter ended up apologizing for the direction taken, something he should have NEVER had to do. A subsequent chat had shown his uneasiness, where he declined a question because he didn't want to 'mix it up' (<- paraphrased, can't remember the exact words) "with the Kigo shippers". Lastly, I don't believe for a second that Kigo is "getting the short end of the stick". Fanfiction and fanart for the pairing is at an all-time high and seems more abundant than any other type at the moment. With the series ended, I like to read stories that stick closely to the source material, which has become more difficult lately. If anything, even though the KP fandom in general is starting to fade, the Kigo following looks stonger than ever. Ouch, an artist should never apologize for their work. Is there a transcript of this chat? Poor Steve.
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Post by nabusan on Mar 24, 2008 4:41:04 GMT -5
Was this on New Years? Cause I didn't attend that one. I do remember a few Kigo questions being directed at the VIPs during the big VIP chat in September, but that was just dracko's attempts at trying to include kpslashhaven and the rest of the fandom, including Global Justice League and SDS in the chat. I mean, it was a chat meant for the fans, there was no real harm intended. And I think it was dracko19 asking the questions. Yeah, Steve politely scooted past the Kigo questions - and he's fully entitled to. But there's hardly any need to make a big drama about it. I don't think there was any conflict during the chat. The events of a few months ago, however, when the VIPs got flamed on the forum was just awful. But those were individuals, and they got banned. Don't generalize an entire ship based on their actions. Oooh, I tried to find the thread via Google, and came across this...interesting...: PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13 PG-13: www.kpslashhaven.net/viewtopic.php?t=4080&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0Sorry if this fuels the fire, just showing what I found.
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Post by Commander Argus on Mar 24, 2008 11:56:54 GMT -5
Thinking about it, I guess it really boils down to the fact it's not K/R. I identify so strongly with that relationship, and I feel upset whenever I see Kim with anybody else, not just Shego. For me, it invalidates one of the strongest points of the whole KP world.
Other, less important points include those who write the ship for male-fantasy prurient reasons, and generally, the quality of those fics are low. I've also seen how Ron can be bashed, belittled or simply ignored, and those make me angry. Ron is perfectly capable of making a fool of himself for comedic reasons, he doesn't need to be turned into some pathetic loser beyond that.
There's also the volume of it. It's pretty much in my face every time I do a search of art or fics and quite honestly, I frown when I see that.
Early on, one of my first experiences with Kigo involved a story that was okay otherwise, but went Kigo at the very end out of the blue. It just didn't make sense.
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 24, 2008 12:25:05 GMT -5
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Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 24, 2008 13:30:01 GMT -5
For the record, that post was directed at the anti-D/S comments, not-so-much related to K/R or Kigo.
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