|
Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 26, 2008 13:10:25 GMT -5
That was an altered state of mind Shego. That's a good way of putting it. Be that as it may, it was still Shego. Kim knew it was still Shego. Ron knew it was still Shego. And Ron was actually more uncomfortable around 'Ms. Go' than anybody, despite not being the one who supposedly "HATE!!11"s her. Kim could've easily turned mind-altered Shego in to the authorities, or at least tried to somehow rectify the sitch (y'know... Team Go being evil, a convicted and escaped felon posing as a high school substitute teacher... yeah, that sitch : , but instead chose to hang out with her (to the extent that Ron actually felt alienated, I might add).
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Mar 26, 2008 14:37:32 GMT -5
I've been reading a LOT of posts and reading a LOT of different threads relevant to this and I've thought and thought and thought about it and now I think I know WHY I'm not a fan of KiGo. It's not because of K/R, it's not because of D/S, it's not because of ANYTHING but THIS:
I thought this forum was about loving Kim Possible and everyone part of the fandom, no matter what kind of artwork they may draw, or what kind of fanfictions they may write, as long as nobody gets in fights or anything like that. Now, as people have said in this thread about KiGo getting the "Short end of the stick", I've always wondered if they have or haven't, and ya know what? I completely disagree that they've been getting the "Short end of the stick". I just don't understand why people say things like that. The KiGo fans here are so protected by the mods and a lot of other people. When someone rants about KiGo, they get in SERIOUS trouble. But here's my main point in this post...
There are SO many ranting threads about SO many things about this show that REALLY hurts the fans, and I know it's not intended to offend anybody, but how can it not when the title of these threads are all about hating it? The creator of the thread gets in no trouble at all. None. Nada (if that's how you spell it). But from what I've seen, no one dares to make a ranting thread about KiGo because they're scared they might get a warning bar or something. Now THAT'S what I don't get. People are too afraid to see what MIGHT happen if they rant off about KiGo when people who hate K/R, D/S, or any other ship are allowed to make hate threads about it. D/S fans, K/R fans, and many more fans of everything BUT KiGo are very hurt by this and sick and tired of it! If we're going to make forums about LOVING a show, I think it should be against the rules to make HATE threads about SO many things about the show, and I'm sure many people agree with me!
Althought I'm still very angry and upset, I won't say anymore. I, myself, am afraid to say anymore just as I am afraid to post this message because I MIGHT get in trouble for it. And that's just my point. I HATE hate threads, and that's it. 'Nuff said.
|
|
|
Post by dracko19 on Mar 26, 2008 17:11:46 GMT -5
Kigo is no more protected in this forum than any other ship. If you disagree, then send me some links of other threads where someone is attacking a ship and the ability for someone to enjoy it and I will deal with it appropriately. What is protected around here beyond anything else is the right of people to ship what they want (except incest/beastaility/illegal) without interference from others. So, Joss/MrDrP and Rufus/Ron isn't allowed, but most everything else is and we protect your right to ship it and enjoy it.
I agree that hate threads have little purpose and I'll be gald to shut down any said threads if they turn into attacks. However, this is a DISCUSSION board. That means that people should be able to voice their opinions and have discussions about said opinions. As long as they are civil, respectful and not offensive, we allow such discussion.
We tend to monitor KiGo threads a little more closely because of the history. The majority of KiGo threads have eventually turned into flames/attacks against KiGo shippers. I don't particularly like babysitting threads, but some threads cause us more grief than others.
|
|
|
Post by Darth_Comrade on Mar 26, 2008 17:30:37 GMT -5
I don't see what there is to discuss anyway, this thread has long reached it's limit, everyone is just saying the same thing over and over all the time.
|
|
|
Post by Mickey on Mar 26, 2008 17:38:33 GMT -5
That's a good way of putting it. Be that as it may, it was still Shego. Kim knew it was still Shego. Ron knew it was still Shego. And Ron was actually more uncomfortable around 'Ms. Go' than anybody, despite not being the one who supposedly "HATE!!11"s her. Kim could've easily turned mind-altered Shego in to the authorities, or at least tried to somehow rectify the sitch (y'know... Team Go being evil, a convicted and escaped felon posing as a high school substitute teacher... yeah, that sitch : , but instead chose to hang out with her (to the extent that Ron actually felt alienated, I might add). But that is Kim being a good person. That has nothing to do with Shego. And Ron has a habit of feeling alienated when someone new shows up. I don't see what there is to discuss anyway, this thread has long reached it's limit, everyone is just saying the same thing over and over all the time. Perhaps, but I has some questions in regard to KiGo and I would rather put them in here and then start a new thread which would give the mods another thread to monitor.
|
|
|
Post by Krist on Mar 26, 2008 17:40:29 GMT -5
Two girls are better than one.
|
|
|
Post by nabusan on Mar 26, 2008 17:54:06 GMT -5
Lol, Krist's one of the 'hawt lesbianz!' folk then ;D I must confess, the main reason I slash ship is cause of the 'hawt gay guyz!' aspect. And I'm sure many K/R shippers are the same deep down. So the motivations behind shipping a couple shouldn't really be questioned. Heck, you could have a really reasoned argument in favor of a ship, or you could just ship something for the heck of it. Like dracko said, everyone should have the right to ship what they want [within reason]. Who cares why? I get that people invest their emotions into shipping, and divide themselves into teams of 'us' verses 'them', but that's just not the way to go - as history has taught us.
|
|
Fusion Fox
Pink Sloth
READ THIS POST IN A MUMBLING BRITISH ACCENT
Not a bad problem to have if you ask me.
Posts: 4
|
Post by Fusion Fox on Mar 26, 2008 19:18:15 GMT -5
I wish a hardcore shipper from either side would answer this for me, along with "why does what other people ship effect you in any way?". I don't mean this in a confrontational "I'm calling you out!" kind of way, just wondering what other people's thoughts and reasons are. I mean sure, if it's being shoved in your face and you don't like it, I can see why you'd be angry. But it isn't that hard to ignore something you don't like. Another good analogy might be bands. If I love a band and then meet somebody who doesn't like it, and instead likes a band I hate, I just take it as a difference in opinions. In a way it's refreshing to meet people with ideas different from my own. What I don't do is tell them how much their favorite band sucks and how I hate them for it. Atleast not in a serious manner. It's just their opinion, can you really hate somebody just for that?
|
|
|
Post by eclogite on Mar 26, 2008 19:57:16 GMT -5
...I mean sure, if it's being shoved in your face and you don't like it, I can see why you'd be angry. But it isn't that hard to ignore something you don't like. ..... Particularly since it is so easy simply to skip over a thread that distresses one.
|
|
|
Post by Ot@ru on Mar 26, 2008 20:23:54 GMT -5
Whose idea is it for the ship?
|
|
|
Post by cadmus on Mar 26, 2008 20:55:34 GMT -5
This leads to my next reason, which is the sexual orientation of the two characters involved. Kim and Shego have only shown interest in potential partners of the opposite sex. I've seen pages of arguments from Kigo shippers about this, most of which were based off either flawed interpretation of particular scenes or a general idea of the 'characters not knowing it yet'. Trying to use such logic to justify a pairing, especially to convince others of its validity, is pretty pointless because it can be used for almost any situation. That said, Shego tries to kill Kim regularly, which really isn't a solid basis for a relationship. Should she have succeeded, I see her without pity or regret. Kim, on the other hand, probably would be the near-opposite because of her 'hero' status and upbringing. If any of her adversaries were to meet such a fate, I can see her attending their funerals. You pretty much nailed the reasons I don't really care for Kigo and why I'm not a fan of it. Whilst I don't try to go after anyone who believes in Kigo, but @ the same time the shippers of this ship who really get to me are the ones who use their love for Kigo to cloud their judgment on the characters they see on tv. Those are the ones that really annoy me. -The ones where shippers look at every little interaction between Kim and Shego (the spa scene in MDAA, the beginning fight in Clean Slate, or Shego's unfinished sentence in STG; as examples) as subtext. Even though that subtext defies plausibility and logic. I mean you can do whatever you want with Fanfiction, I don't care. But lets draw the line somewhere when we're all talking about WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IN THE SERIES. -The other ones who annoy me are the ones who say they only watch Kim Possible for possible Kigo references. Mods and Kigo shippers I mean no harm to any of you and I hope you don't get offended when I say this, but... SERIOUSLY. Why would anyone watch a tv show to reference (in their own mind) something between two characters THAT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN? If all you want is a daily Kigo fix there's a million easier ways to get it then watching a show that doesn't care about this ship. My personal opinion on Kigo is that I feel like it's a ship that was thought up by people who have WAY too much time on their hands. Me personally while I'm a big fan of KP, but not to the point where I would obsess over something thats of false sincerity. Personally I don't see any way of doing Kigo unless you stretch the rules of logic and plausibility to ridiculous extremes. Which is why I don't bother with it. But I'm willing to let bygones be bygones, as long as it comes with a territory.
|
|
|
Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 27, 2008 6:10:32 GMT -5
I've been reading a LOT of posts and reading a LOT of different threads relevant to this and I've thought and thought and thought about it and now I think I know WHY I'm not a fan of KiGo. It's not because of K/R, it's not because of D/S, it's not because of ANYTHING but THIS: I thought this forum was about loving Kim Possible and everyone part of the fandom, no matter what kind of artwork they may draw, or what kind of fanfictions they may write, as long as nobody gets in fights or anything like that. Now, as people have said in this thread about KiGo getting the "Short end of the stick", I've always wondered if they have or haven't, and ya know what? I completely disagree that they've been getting the "Short end of the stick". I just don't understand why people say things like that. The KiGo fans here are so protected by the mods and a lot of other people. When someone rants about KiGo, they get in SERIOUS trouble. But here's my main point in this post... There are SO many ranting threads about SO many things about this show that REALLY hurts the fans, and I know it's not intended to offend anybody, but how can it not when the title of these threads are all about hating it? The creator of the thread gets in no trouble at all. None. Nada (if that's how you spell it). But from what I've seen, no one dares to make a ranting thread about KiGo because they're scared they might get a warning bar or something. Now THAT'S what I don't get. People are too afraid to see what MIGHT happen if they rant off about KiGo when people who hate K/R, D/S, or any other ship are allowed to make hate threads about it. D/S fans, K/R fans, and many more fans of everything BUT KiGo are very hurt by this and sick and tired of it! If we're going to make forums about LOVING a show, I think it should be against the rules to make HATE threads about SO many things about the show, and I'm sure many people agree with me! Althought I'm still very angry and upset, I won't say anymore. I, myself, am afraid to say anymore just as I am afraid to post this message because I MIGHT get in trouble for it. And that's just my point. I HATE hate threads, and that's it. 'Nuff said. If Kigo fans are so protected on these boards, why is there only one left? Be that as it may, it was still Shego. Kim knew it was still Shego. Ron knew it was still Shego. And Ron was actually more uncomfortable around 'Ms. Go' than anybody, despite not being the one who supposedly "HATE!!11"s her. Kim could've easily turned mind-altered Shego in to the authorities, or at least tried to somehow rectify the sitch (y'know... Team Go being evil, a convicted and escaped felon posing as a high school substitute teacher... yeah, that sitch : , but instead chose to hang out with her (to the extent that Ron actually felt alienated, I might add). But that is Kim being a good person. That has nothing to do with Shego. True enough. "Homecoming Upset" is enough evidence of that.
|
|
|
Post by eclogite on Mar 27, 2008 6:28:23 GMT -5
......-The ones where shippers look at every little interaction between Kim and Shego (the spa scene in MDAA, the beginning fight in Clean Slate, or Shego's unfinished sentence in STG; as examples) as subtext. Even though that subtext defies plausibility and logic. I mean you can do whatever you want with Fanfiction, I don't care. But lets draw the line somewhere when we're all talking about WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IN THE SERIES....... Yet is this not the basis of just about every inference from screen caps used to justify every proposed relationship in the series? Seems to me this was the whole underpinning of the Re-evaluation and many, many other threads, especially everything prior to StD.
|
|
|
Post by yvj on Mar 27, 2008 9:47:34 GMT -5
......-The ones where shippers look at every little interaction between Kim and Shego (the spa scene in MDAA, the beginning fight in Clean Slate, or Shego's unfinished sentence in STG; as examples) as subtext. Even though that subtext defies plausibility and logic. I mean you can do whatever you want with Fanfiction, I don't care. But lets draw the line somewhere when we're all talking about WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IN THE SERIES....... Yet is this not the basis of just about every inference from screen caps used to justify every proposed relationship in the series? Seems to me this was the whole underpinning of the Re-evaluation and many, many other threads, especially everything prior to StD. Which part of defies plausibility and logic and REALLY HAPPENED IN THE SERIES is being missed here. When the screen caps are being used to prove that Shego grabbing Kim by the shoulders during a fight or giving Kim bedroom eyes minutes before she lowers her into a death trap is some kind of hidden message that two harbor feelings for each other, you've got to take a step back. A hilarious example I've seen is during the fight scene in Dimension Twist, there is a supposed shot of Shego eying Kim's chest. I'd be hard pressed to believe there is an intentional shot of Shego leering at Kim that is meant to be a shout out to Kigo fans. Ecolognite from your posts you appear to be using a scientific approach to the issue so I'm curious do you actually believe there is subtext in the show or is this a devil's advocate scenario?
|
|
|
Post by eclogite on Mar 27, 2008 10:40:03 GMT -5
Negative on the subtext. My stand is that pretty much all "hints", Kigo, K/R and otherwise derive from selectively using isolated frames, generally out of context. Most of this stuff is nothing more than things along the line of a character moving their eyes from one direction to the other, that they happen to pass over another character in the process is merely part of establishing fluidity of motion during the animation process. Doing the same with functionally any other motion medium will yield the same sort of results and a case could be made for, say Zorro having a thing for Sgt. Garcia by using selectively isolated frames from just about any given scene where both appear. I am a science type, so I do tend to approach these things on the basis of observation and analysis, since this is what I do daily, in RL. Based on observation and some knowledge of the mechanics motion pictures, it's pretty easy to discard pretty much any and all pre-StD "subtext" and "hints" as wishful thinking or self-projection. I regard the show as a "what you see is what you get" propostion. Fan productions such as art and fiction are another matter altogether since those are the provinence of the individual producing them, pretty much in the same vein as remarks made by the original authors and other folks involved in the show's production outside the show. I fully understand that people will develop strong emotional attachments to things (I have a number of items that are completely non-serviceable and beyond repair that I can't quite bring myself to discard, simply because they saw me through tight situations in distant places), but most of the time just wanting something to be so doesn't make it so. Merlin Missy's discussion of canon, fanon and related topics is dead on : firefox.org/news/articles/650/1/Dr-Merlin039s-Guide-to-Fanfiction/Page1.html based on discussions/disputes/fratricides here and elsewhere. I recommend her whole series as an excellent insight into these things: firefox.org/news/categories/Fandom/Dr.-Merlin%26%23039%3Bs-Soapbox/.
|
|
|
Post by FarAwayGirl on Mar 27, 2008 12:13:18 GMT -5
Kigo used to bother me because I didn't really understand how "gay" could possibly work but now that I'm older I respect it. I know it would NEVER happen because neither Kim or Shego are gay or have any gay qualities and Disney would never go for that but I still appriciate the ship in the "fan world" I once wrote a Kigo fan-fic.
|
|
|
Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 27, 2008 12:55:37 GMT -5
Negative on the subtext. My stand is that pretty much all "hints", Kigo, K/R and otherwise derive from selectively using isolated frames, generally out of context. Most of this stuff is nothing more than things along the line of a character moving their eyes from one direction to the other, that they happen to pass over another character in the process is merely part of establishing fluidity of motion during the animation process. Doing the same with functionally any other motion medium will yield the same sort of results and a case could be made for, say Zorro having a thing for Sgt. Garcia by using selectively isolated frames from just about any given scene where both appear. I am a science type, so I do tend to approach these things on the basis of observation and analysis, since this is what I do daily, in RL. Based on observation and some knowledge of the mechanics motion pictures, it's pretty easy to discard pretty much any and all pre-StD "subtext" and "hints" as wishful thinking or self-projection. I regard the show as a "what you see is what you get" propostion. Fan productions such as art and fiction are another matter altogether since those are the provinence of the individual producing them, pretty much in the same vein as remarks made by the original authors and other folks involved in the show's production outside the show. I fully understand that people will develop strong emotional attachments to things (I have a number of items that are completely non-serviceable and beyond repair that I can't quite bring myself to discard, simply because they saw me through tight situations in distant places), but most of the time just wanting something to be so doesn't make it so. Merlin Missy's discussion of canon, fanon and related topics is dead on : firefox.org/news/articles/650/1/Dr-Merlin039s-Guide-to-Fanfiction/Page1.html based on discussions/disputes/fratricides here and elsewhere. I recommend her whole series as an excellent insight into these things: firefox.org/news/categories/Fandom/Dr.-Merlin%26%23039%3Bs-Soapbox/. Great links, Eclogite! I've read a few of Merlin Missy's articles now, and they were very interesting. Here's one that I thought might fit this debate/ranting thread: Why? -- A Not-Remotely-Complete Investigation of the "Why Slash / Why Het / Why Femslash" Debate: firefox.org/news/articles/1196/1/Why----A-Not-Remotely-Complete-Investigation-of-the-quotWhy-Slash--Why-Het--Why-Femslashquot-Debate/Page1.htmlIt has many different viewpoints, both from het shippers, slash shippers, femslash shippers, more neutral parties-- and all from many different fandoms. It was an intriguing read. If people here read it, I beg them to try to consider every 'argument' presented.
|
|
|
Post by Levelord on Mar 27, 2008 15:03:25 GMT -5
What about people like me, who ship anything and everything? Do we get hate?
|
|
|
Post by Knife Wife on Mar 27, 2008 17:32:34 GMT -5
What about people like me, who ship anything and everything? Do we get hate? Only from Deviantart mods... j/k Anyway, I'm (mostly) in that camp, I ship a lot of different/contradictory pairings. I have never and will never take it seriously, and can't help but *facepalm* when someone does take it seriously (any ship). So I like a good Kigo story, and a good K/R story. Can't imagine why people get so vicious about it.
|
|
|
Post by Levelord on Mar 27, 2008 17:53:19 GMT -5
Yay! Let's ship Monty/DNAmy
|
|