Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2008 1:43:57 GMT -5
I have yet to understand why everyone seems to get über excited about the notion of traditional 2D animation being broadcast in high definition. Is there something I'm missing?
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Post by lordvictorino on Jan 24, 2008 2:09:58 GMT -5
I have yet to understand why everyone seems to get über excited about the notion of traditional 2D animation being broadcast in high definition. Is there something I'm missing? Well, if you have a nice projector like I do and see an episode of Kim Possible in regular definition and see it again in high definition, then you would understand that there is a hugh difference. When you increase the size of the Picture on a large screen, the regualr definition will look weak and blurry, while in high definition it will look crisp and clean even on a big projector screen. And believe you me, when I say that 2D amimation looks better on the Big Screen, I really mean it. Please and Thank You, Tony M. Victorino
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Post by wallaceb on Jan 24, 2008 9:16:45 GMT -5
I have yet to understand why everyone seems to get über excited about the notion of traditional 2D animation being broadcast in high definition. Is there something I'm missing? just look at the differences when it comes to the screen caps alone caps.kpfanworld.com/steal_wheels.php?v=hd&mode=1401-1500
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Post by chrisc801 on Jan 24, 2008 11:05:23 GMT -5
I have yet to understand why everyone seems to get über excited about the notion of traditional 2D animation being broadcast in high definition. Is there something I'm missing? Well, if you have a nice projector like I do and see an episode of Kim Possible in regular definition and see it again in high definition, then you would understand that there is a hugh difference. When you increase the size of the Picture on a large screen, the regualr definition will look weak and blurry, while in high definition it will look crisp and clean even on a big projector screen. And believe you me, when I say that 2D amimation looks better on the Big Screen, I really mean it. Please and Thank You, Tony M. Victorino Very true.
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Post by ♥KPFan72491♥ on Jan 24, 2008 11:54:32 GMT -5
OMG I want this DVD, idc if I have to ask my friend from Germany or the UK to get it for me, I will have it lol
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j1mbafr0sty
Yellow Trout
Rap/R&B BeatMaker and Owner/Dsinger of Faze9ine Clothing
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Post by j1mbafr0sty on Jan 24, 2008 12:23:26 GMT -5
WHOAAAA i thought my 42 was big lol im thinking about returning it back though i dont know im not too happy with the quality i could just be being anal but idk and yo mooky if ur friends gonna hook u up get them to hook me up too
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2008 13:47:14 GMT -5
In all honesty, I don't see a difference. Digitally upscaling a standard definition anamorphic widescreen DVD quality screencap to that resolution would look exactly the same. Then again, the quality might not be the same as the actual broadcast because of poor jpeg compression, but if it is, I have yet to be impressed. Maybe it's something I'd need to actually see in motion to believe. But in any case, I guess the point I'm trying to make is pretty much moot, since high definition broadcasting will be the new standard in about a year. And by that time, Blu-ray will be widespread enough to make it affordable.
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Post by mrmatt on Jan 24, 2008 22:01:56 GMT -5
At this point in time I don't really care about high def and all that either. Though of course I don't have a kickin set up like chrisc801 is showing. I'll just be happy to get one of my favorite shows on DvD.
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Post by Ot@ru on Jan 25, 2008 5:13:51 GMT -5
At this point in time I don't really care about high def and all that either. Though of course I don't have a kickin set up like chrisc801 is showing. I'll just be happy to get one of my favorite shows on DvD. Yeah...I don't think I would be buying those HD DVD player.Do you know how much it cost & the HD DVD KP boxsets?I will buy the darn thing for KP but for now just I'm happy with the regular DVD.
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Post by Nulla on Jan 25, 2008 8:28:26 GMT -5
lol..... its official gear so im happy with the dvd's, so long as they're in english
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Post by nabusan on Jan 25, 2008 12:27:19 GMT -5
Disney have been supporting Blu Ray, Kamen.
And HD does pwn. Think of it like your desktop wallpaper. Would you rather have an 640x480 wallpaper filling your 1280x1024 resolution screen? 'Cause the larger you stretch/upscale it, the more it's likely to blur . A 1280 wallpaper on a 1280 screen would look a lot better.
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Fusion Fox
Pink Sloth
READ THIS POST IN A MUMBLING BRITISH ACCENT
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Post by Fusion Fox on Jan 25, 2008 12:55:03 GMT -5
Just as a comparison, I made this animated gif to cycle between a HD and SD version of the same clip. img229.imageshack.us/img229/6865/hdsdih9.gifSome quality was lost during the process, but it was lost from both images so it balances out if you think about it. This is how nice the HD image really looks. I wonder wallace, are these caps the original uncompressed HD size?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2008 13:42:14 GMT -5
And HD does pwn. Think of it like your desktop wallpaper. Would you rather have an 640x480 wallpaper filling your 1280x1024 resolution screen? 'Cause the larger you stretch/upscale it, the more it's likely to blur . A 1280 wallpaper on a 1280 screen would look a lot better.My screen is 1680x1050 and a DVD quality screencap saved in PNG format looks almost identical to the HD versions available on Wallace's site. I've mentioned stuff like this in the distant past with examples, but like most of everything else I post, it was overlooked. So as a last ditch effort, here I go again with some examples. The DVD quality ones are upscaled from "So the Drama" and the HD one is from the season 4 opening sequence section. DVD (in PNG): img520.imageshack.us/img520/8840/55342066rk1.pngDVD (in JPEG): img520.imageshack.us/img520/3702/50777178fq3.jpgHD: caps.kpfanworld.com/images/season4_opening_hd/0014.jpgMaybe it would impress me if the HD screencap wasn't so heavily compressed, but just for the sake of trying to prove my point, I also have a compressed JPEG at nearly the same file size as the HD one. img231.imageshack.us/img231/6459/12251311fj9.jpgUnless my monitor is so cheaply made that almost everything looks just about the same, I'd say the minor difference isn't worth the extra loot you'd have to put down. Then again, as I said earlier in this thread, by the time we actually get boxsets in the US, Blu-ray will likely already be the new standard, thus more affordable and making my whole point moot.
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Post by chrisc801 on Jan 25, 2008 15:47:40 GMT -5
And HD does pwn. Think of it like your desktop wallpaper. Would you rather have an 640x480 wallpaper filling your 1280x1024 resolution screen? 'Cause the larger you stretch/upscale it, the more it's likely to blur . A 1280 wallpaper on a 1280 screen would look a lot better.My screen is 1680x1050 and a DVD quality screencap saved in PNG format looks almost identical to the HD versions available on Wallace's site. I've mentioned stuff like this in the distant past with examples, but like most of everything else I post, it was overlooked. So as a last ditch effort, here I go again with some examples. The DVD quality ones are upscaled from "So the Drama" and the HD one is from the season 4 opening sequence section. DVD (in PNG): img520.imageshack.us/img520/8840/55342066rk1.pngDVD (in JPEG): img520.imageshack.us/img520/3702/50777178fq3.jpgHD: caps.kpfanworld.com/images/season4_opening_hd/0014.jpgMaybe it would impress me if the HD screencap wasn't so heavily compressed, but just for the sake of trying to prove my point, I also have a compressed JPEG at nearly the same file size as the HD one. img231.imageshack.us/img231/6459/12251311fj9.jpgUnless my monitor is so cheaply made that almost everything looks just about the same, I'd say the minor difference isn't worth the extra loot you'd have to put down. Then again, as I said earlier in this thread, by the time we actually get boxsets in the US, Blu-ray will likely already be the new standard, thus more affordable and making my whole point moot. Of course SD and HD are going to look the same with a screenshot as basic as that. HD brings the CGI, Lighting and Other Special Effects to life. ^ This would look great in HD EDIT: This is what the above screenshot looks like when upscaled to HD using Photoshop and high quality PNG. pages.cmcrowley.com-a.googlepages.com/Image1999.png
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Post by wallaceb on Jan 25, 2008 17:05:23 GMT -5
I wonder wallace, are these caps the original uncompressed HD size? actually no, they come in 1900xsomething i resize them to the resolution i have on my site because it saves me about 100 megs per episode And HD does pwn. Think of it like your desktop wallpaper. Would you rather have an 640x480 wallpaper filling your 1280x1024 resolution screen? 'Cause the larger you stretch/upscale it, the more it's likely to blur . A 1280 wallpaper on a 1280 screen would look a lot better.My screen is 1680x1050 and a DVD quality screencap saved in PNG format looks almost identical to the HD versions available on Wallace's site. I've mentioned stuff like this in the distant past with examples, but like most of everything else I post, it was overlooked. So as a last ditch effort, here I go again with some examples. The DVD quality ones are upscaled from "So the Drama" and the HD one is from the season 4 opening sequence section. DVD (in PNG): img520.imageshack.us/img520/8840/55342066rk1.pngDVD (in JPEG): img520.imageshack.us/img520/3702/50777178fq3.jpgHD: caps.kpfanworld.com/images/season4_opening_hd/0014.jpgMaybe it would impress me if the HD screencap wasn't so heavily compressed, but just for the sake of trying to prove my point, I also have a compressed JPEG at nearly the same file size as the HD one. img231.imageshack.us/img231/6459/12251311fj9.jpgUnless my monitor is so cheaply made that almost everything looks just about the same, I'd say the minor difference isn't worth the extra loot you'd have to put down. Then again, as I said earlier in this thread, by the time we actually get boxsets in the US, Blu-ray will likely already be the new standard, thus more affordable and making my whole point moot. yes my JPG's are compressed. If i did not compress the images, each HD ep would be approximately 800 megs each of images. compressing them brings that down to about 150 megs. If i truly wanted to, i could stop compressing them, but i myself cannot see much of a difference between any of the images you posted. Yes there is a little more pixilation in the blue background, but that is not much. And that pixilation is more of a result of resizing than the compression. the colors are different hues as a result of the gamma settings i have power dvd set to. When i was deciding on my compression level, i looked at the before and after and i settled on a setting where i could not notice much of a difference at all. Considering that my site currently already transfers about 3 gigs of data PER DAY if i was to have the images uncompressed then i would be transferring easily 7 to 8 times that. Now, that does not bother me, i have 15 TB of monthly bandwidth and 1.5 TB of server hdd space. i just do not want people waiting forever for the images to load. That is the primary reason why i did the compression, to speed up load times. As you pointed out, YES there is a difference between the SCREEN CAPS i have uploaded (as a result of the above explanation) but when comparing the video side by side to that of a standard NTSC DVD, the quality is very noticeable. Personally, i do not know why you are analyzing this stuff so closely, but if you want, i will not stop you. One last thing though, almost any other place you see KP images, such as KPTome or something, they have all their images resized to like 300x200 or something, at least i do not resize them ridiculously small. and also, how many other sites have such an extensive collection of images. Do you really want me to use images that are around 800 kb each compared to the 100 kb images i have now only for only a minor amount of quality improvement?
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Post by mrmatt on Jan 25, 2008 19:58:57 GMT -5
~Click For Full Image Correction this shot looks great regardless because it's from StD.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2008 0:20:19 GMT -5
One last thing though, almost any other place you see KP images, such as KPTome or something, they have all their images resized to like 300x200 or something, at least i do not resize them ridiculously small. and also, how many other sites have such an extensive collection of images. Do you really want me to use images that are around 800 kb each compared to the 100 kb images i have now only for only a minor amount of quality improvement? I wasn't suggesting it and I apologize if that's what it sounded like. If anything, my point was that the compression didn't severely affect the image quality, which is why I have yet to see why so many people are hyped up about HD quality episodes. Right now I'm downloading one of the 1 minute preview clips that's still floating around the boards. If the quality of the actual video is significantly better than what I've seen thus far, I'll gladly withdraw my criticism about the benefits of HD in animation. And ease up a little bit on the defenses, it's not like I was bashing your site or anything. Of course the quality would diminish if you're taking an image that's already compressed into a JPEG and saving it as a PNG after upscaling. Changing the format doesn't reverse the compression, so most of the increased file size is wasted space. To elaborate, I was able to take the same screencap you used, upscale, save as a 75% quality JPEG and it turned out the same (and slightly less pixelated in some spots on the Diablo-bot) as the one you used for an example. img254.imageshack.us/img254/4306/image1999vn5.jpgUpscaling and saving as a PNG directly from the actual DVD gives you this: img151.imageshack.us/img151/4506/83670418eo7.png
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Post by chrisc801 on Jan 26, 2008 6:36:21 GMT -5
I can see your point, unless you have a large HDTV or monitor, you won't see much of a difference. But nonetheless, That still looks pretty blurry compared to HD. Right now I'm downloading one of the 1 minute preview clips that's still floating around the boards. If the quality of the actual video is significantly better than what I've seen thus far, I'll gladly withdraw my criticism about the benefits of HD in animation. Those links don't work anymore. Here's a new one: crowley.cc/kp/Untitled.avi
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2008 13:26:19 GMT -5
But nonetheless, That still looks pretty blurry compared to HD. That remains to be seen for this particular segment, at least until So the Drama (or its separate episodes) is broadcast in HD. It's pretty obvious that it will look better, I'm not contesting that. My main deal is with the cost to quality ratio if HD boxsets were to be made. But since HD will be the new standard within the next year or so, as I said long before this mini-debate started, the points I brought up will have been for nothing. If anything, I might have shown that you don't really need the incredibly high Blu-ray bitrate for animation because the difference isn't that significant. Whoever is developing the boxsets could find a happy medium by having more episodes on one disk at a lower bitrate. And I watched the video you provided and gotta say, it looked good, about what I expected. My confusion about the obscene amount of hype surrounding the concept still stands, albeit on slightly shaky ground. It wasn't "like comparing night and day" as I heard some people describe it, but it did look good. Those links don't work anymore. Actually, one of them did work (for The Big Job), but it was in .mov and Apple still hasn't worked out the performance bugs in their iTunes/Quicktime software for Vista. Go figure...
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Post by chrisc801 on Jan 26, 2008 14:17:06 GMT -5
The big job clip may not look as good as the clip I linked to above, because channel seven only started broadcasting in 1080p (compared to 1440x816) recently.
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