|
Post by NinjaRabbit on Mar 24, 2008 14:15:17 GMT -5
For the record, that post was directed at the anti-D/S comments, not-so-much related to K/R or Kigo. No, I think if you read a page or so back, it was about Kigo - the thread got off topic. And Will, that was a great post you had a page or so back. I agree with pretty much everything you stated.
|
|
|
Post by DP on Mar 24, 2008 21:14:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ferryport1987 on Mar 24, 2008 21:30:09 GMT -5
man this hate of KiGo has turned out to be mad popular eecieving 5 pages of this thread in just 4 days...you see KiGo is famous but in a 12+ version...i mean i kinda love KiGo...but my favourite pairings are D/S and K/R because they were meant for each other
|
|
|
Post by ArtFan88 on Mar 24, 2008 22:21:50 GMT -5
I just have one question.
Why is this even being argued over?
Speaking for myself, I might not like most ships and I do support cannon, but you know what, I have no right to tell any of the shippers that what they do is wrong, and neither does anyone else.
If it's what they're into, if they have fun with it, who are you to come in and chastise them for it? Just like if you're into cannon or whatever, the shippers shouldn't go around beating you over the head with their pairings. It's all about respect, people: respecting what others enjoy. The only disrespectful thing about it is taking it to the point of bickering about it and bashing. If people are having fun then there's no need for it.
And besides, is that not part of being a fan anyway? To be creative with the media that you're a fan of?
If everyone followed exactly, 100% what the creators put in the show, all the time, I'd say things would get pretty boring pretty fast. The fact that the fans can come up with different ships or stories or events only goes to show just how broad a range KP has for exploration, I think. And that's the fun of being a fan. Exploring and being creative.
There is nothing wrong with it and like I said, no one has any right to go around and say that there is.
|
|
|
Post by DP on Mar 24, 2008 22:27:34 GMT -5
And besides, is that not part of being a fan anyway? To be creative with the media that you're a fan of? If everyone followed exactly, 100% what the creators put in the show, all the time, I'd say things would get pretty boring pretty fast. The fact that the fans can come up with different ships or stories or events only goes to show just how broad a range KP has for exploration, I think. And that's the fun of being a fan. Exploring and being creative. Wow, that's a really good way of thinking about it! I really like that attitude! That is a nice, refreshing attitude right there.
|
|
|
Post by Redquill on Mar 25, 2008 0:23:47 GMT -5
To be honest, I cannot understand the hatred of KiGo. I have been involved with fandom for ages, and have seen some bizarre ships and/or Slashes in my day. And some of the Trekkie Ships/Slashes out there could make KiGo seem like a natural co-mingling. The fact that other fan groups seem more ready to accept same sex pairings, but KP does not, leads me to think it is the immaturity of the Anti KiGo crowd. It could also be that in the past we did not have the internet to broadcast our opinions. It also seems that maybe the anti KiGo crowd is not as big as one might think. A few people posting everywhere it is possible, might make one think there are more of them than actually exist. The solution is quite simple. One need only ignore the people who are against the ship, or Slash as the case might be. It might be hard at first, but when the opposers find that they are getting no reaction, hopefully they will pick up their marbles and go home. As for myself, though not greatly in favor of some of the pairings, when they are well written, or drawn, I can take enjoyment in the fact that though not exactly to my taste, someone out there is helping to continue the memory of Kim Possible. And for that, I am grateful
|
|
|
Post by mike on Mar 25, 2008 2:45:57 GMT -5
Now, I don’t pretend to start any ranting over here, nor judge anyone. I just want us to have an adult and well-mannered discussion over this. Among the pairings in the KP Fandom, KiGo is the one who’s usually getting the short end of the stick, specially around this forum. While I know there’s people who respect it at some point, and others who just don’t give a darn, there are those who have stated to hate it or acted in according manners towards it. Yet, while I could try to guess, hardly anybody gives reasons for that. Is it because KiGo, by its nature, opposes to K/R and D/S, two other popular pairings? Is it because of mere homophobia? Or why is it? As I said before, I'm not gonna judge anyone, but I'd like an honest and non-insulting answer to this topic. So, why?I have a ground why I hate KiGo. The show attracted me because I am intrigued by the story of Kim and Ron from the time in which they first met to being friends until they became lovers. I find their story to be quite unique in the old "friends forever" to "lovers in the end" sense, KiGo obviously is contrary to that. In easy sense, it annoys me because it "tampers" in one way or another Kim and Ron's relationship, direct or indirect. In my case, however, it tampers my "fandom" just by diverting the attitudes of the characters into people which I believe are not what they are and this makes me hate the ship itself. Although after some KiGo debates , I found KiGo tolerable on the ground that every fan has his/her fandom and a little respect goes a long long way. KiGo, as I believe it, will stay as long as there are shippers who support it. So to be honest, there's actually no end; rather only a continuous reiteration of threads........ I mean, who can tell, maybe after a month or two a thread will pop up with a title "Who's better K/R or KiGo?" or "Canonity over Fandom or vice-versa?" or something like that.
|
|
Fusion Fox
Pink Sloth
READ THIS POST IN A MUMBLING BRITISH ACCENT
Not a bad problem to have if you ask me.
Posts: 4
|
Post by Fusion Fox on Mar 25, 2008 4:37:15 GMT -5
I'm glad Artfan finally came and posted what he's been saying in the chatroom for quite a while ;D
Mainly because I agree with him 100%.
|
|
|
Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 25, 2008 9:05:40 GMT -5
I just have one question. Why is this even being argued over? Speaking for myself, I might not like most ships and I do support cannon, but you know what, I have no right to tell any of the shippers that what they do is wrong, and neither does anyone else. If it's what they're into, if they have fun with it, who are you to come in and chastise them for it? Just like if you're into cannon or whatever, the shippers shouldn't go around beating you over the head with their pairings. It's all about respect, people. The only disrespectful thing about it is taking it to the point of bickering about it. If people are having fun then there's no need for it. And besides, is that not part of being a fan anyway? To be creative with the media that you're a fan of? If everyone followed exactly, 100% what the creators put in the show, all the time, I'd say things would get pretty boring pretty fast. The fact that the fans can come up with different ships or stories or events only goes to show just how broad a range KP has for exploration, I think. And that's the fun of being a fan. Exploring and being creative. There is nothing wrong with it and like I said, no one has any right to go around and say that there is. Yep. I don't think that shipping alternative, non-canon ships is being disrespectful to the creators or the show at all. You're just playing around with the show because you like it and find it interesting. Even the people who claim not to like the show at least ship the characters because they find those characters interesting, right? There are no rules about having to like every aspect of a show. *shrugs* I've shipped non-canon couples from other fandoms myself, and I didn't do it because I wanted to disrespect the creators. And just because one does not like every decision the creators of something has made with their book/show/movie/comic, it doesn't mean that one is disrespecting the creator. We're all critical consumers, and we have the right to our opinions. It's only when you openly bash the show and its creators that it's disrespectful-- like what happened last year, perhaps. It would be disrespectful if I sent hate mail to one of the VIPs, for example, or showed up at a convention or even at their house only to bother them and tell them their show sucked. It's not disrespectful to ship a non-canon couple just because you happen to find that couple intriguing. It's not like the VIPs are gonna read your fanfics or whatever and cry about it.
|
|
|
Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Mar 25, 2008 9:18:48 GMT -5
I am Robbie Valiant, I hate KiGo, and I'm proud. Here's a few reasons why- 1. Like Peter Parker and MJ Watson, Kim and Ron were MADE for each other. Every Kigo, to me, is the same kind of character damage that the idiotic One More Day retcon did to Peter in the current Spidey comics.
2. The loser gets the girl. I love it. It's different, it's fun, and... I'm a bit of a loser myself. Ron getting a girl like Kim, to me, is hope of being accepted, as I'm a bit of a Ron myself... Sorry if I get a little overly corny about this, but I just click with Ron. We even have the same name in real life. Every time I see Ron and Kim together, I see the hope of me finding that special someone... Okay, sentimental rant over. Flame shields up. And yes, I know I sound really insecure by what I just said, but I'm not. Not by a long shot. I know I'm not a guy who'll change anyone's opinion, but I just felt I had to say something here. Good whatever time of day it is, and thanks for listening.
|
|
|
Post by dracko19 on Mar 25, 2008 9:32:58 GMT -5
Okay, so there you go.... Why the hate? Because to some extremists, it tampers with the fundamental concept of K/R. I didn't see one post from anyone else that "hates" Kigo. Its strictly the hardcore K/R fandom. I'm sure we could find some hardcore Kigoites that hate K/R. We could post a similar thread over at Slash and I'm sure we would have some very pointed opinions. Alex wanted a list of reasons and he got some. Fact of the matter is, there are numerous reasons why Kigo annoys people. Whether its tampering with their own favorite ship or just being so overwhelming out in the fandom that it interferes with what you are looking for. I think its important to point this out: Kigo is disliked by many, but only hated by few. The overwhelming majority have no issues with anyone shipping whatever they want. Its only the hardcore shippers that feel they need to interfere with somoene else's ship. They have no right to do so and are in the wrong when they attempt this, but its only them causing grief. So, ignore the griefers and enjoy your own ship. When the griefers get out of control, just PM me and I'll handle them. Have a nice day.
|
|
|
Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 25, 2008 11:08:14 GMT -5
I have a question for those who dislike (or hate) Kigo because it breaks up K/R: do you dislike/hate any other ship that breaks up K/R to the same extent as Kigo? Ships like Kim/Josh, Ron/Yori, and heck even other slash ships like Kim/Bonnie and Ron/Drakken don't take nearly as much heat as Kigo, at least not from what I've seen. Is that just me, or is there more to it than that?
|
|
|
Post by yvj on Mar 25, 2008 11:43:18 GMT -5
I have a question for those who dislike (or hate) Kigo because it breaks up K/R: do you dislike/hate any other ship that breaks up K/R to the same extent as Kigo? Ships like Kim/Josh, Ron/Yori, and heck even other slash ships like Kim/Bonnie and Ron/Drakken don't take nearly as much heat as Kigo, at least not from what I've seen. Is that just me, or is there more to it than that? Allow me to speak for other people. 1) Kim/Josh doesn't exist as far as most people are concerned. 2) Ron/Yori--Ron/Tara----Ron/Female----annoys K/R shippers but appeases Ron fans. 3) Ron/Drakken is not taken seriously by anyone. 4) Kim/Bonnie: If Bonnie had as much fans as Shego does. Kibo would definitely replace Kigo as the most popular slash paring. Still Bonnie has never tried to kill Kim so it's easier to swallow.
|
|
|
Post by Levelord on Mar 25, 2008 12:07:11 GMT -5
I think its important to point this out: Kigo is disliked by many, but only hated by few. The overwhelming majority have no issues with anyone shipping whatever they want. Yup. That's me
|
|
|
Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 25, 2008 12:16:49 GMT -5
I have a question for those who dislike (or hate) Kigo because it breaks up K/R: do you dislike/hate any other ship that breaks up K/R to the same extent as Kigo? Ships like Kim/Josh, Ron/Yori, and heck even other slash ships like Kim/Bonnie and Ron/Drakken don't take nearly as much heat as Kigo, at least not from what I've seen. Is that just me, or is there more to it than that? Allow me to speak for other people. 1) Kim/Josh doesn't exist as far as most people are concerned. 2) Ron/Yori--Ron/Tara----Ron/Female----annoys K/R shippers but appeases Ron fans. 3) Ron/Drakken is not taken seriously by anyone. 4) Kim/Bonnie: If Bonnie had as much fans as Shego does. Kibo would definitely replace Kigo as the most popular slash paring. Still Bonnie has never tried to kill Kim so it's easier to swallow. 1) True - seriously, are there like, ZERO Josh fans out there? (rhetorical question, as I already know the answer will be yes) 2) True - I guess it benefits the Ron/not-Kim shippers that Ron fans outnumber Kim fans by a decent margin. 3) True - well sure, but...um...actually I can't think of anything witty to add for this one... 4) Ehh... - so it doesn't make a difference that Kim considers Bonnie more evil than Shego? I mean yeah Shego tried to kill her on multiple occasions but High School Evil is just so much worse. (don't make me bring out the 'Homecoming Upset' screencaps for proof )
|
|
|
Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Mar 25, 2008 12:51:01 GMT -5
I have a question for those who dislike (or hate) Kigo because it breaks up K/R: do you dislike/hate any other ship that breaks up K/R to the same extent as Kigo? Ships like Kim/Josh, Ron/Yori, and heck even other slash ships like Kim/Bonnie and Ron/Drakken don't take nearly as much heat as Kigo, at least not from what I've seen. Is that just me, or is there more to it than that? Those are tiny fringes. They don't dominate the web like Kigo. And as for R/Y, at least it has a canon basis to it. I consider ships like that to be semi-canon. When it's hinted at, but never really takes off, I consider it fair game, so long as it doesn't violate any big character traits without explanation, I.E., making a canonically straight character inexplicably gay/lesbian, making Ron be a jerk to Kim when they break up, Ron doing it without doubts, etc. And no, I'm not homophobic. I'm fine with them. So long as they keep away from my straight characters. If you want to do an issue like that, do it tastefully and seriously, the way the writers at MTV Animation handled it in the uncensored cut of Daria: Is it Fall Yet?. As a recap, there a lesbian who likes her makes Jane question her own sexuality.It's fine to have them question themselves, but don't do it just for the "hawt lezbianz!!!!!1111" factor or in a way that compromises a character's canonical status. That's all I have to say here. And if you want to yell, fine. If you want to insult me, fire away. I will not be moved. This is my stance. Call it wrong, call it right, it's what I think. I just had to say something to that.
|
|
|
Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 25, 2008 13:05:54 GMT -5
I have a question for those who dislike (or hate) Kigo because it breaks up K/R: do you dislike/hate any other ship that breaks up K/R to the same extent as Kigo? Ships like Kim/Josh, Ron/Yori, and heck even other slash ships like Kim/Bonnie and Ron/Drakken don't take nearly as much heat as Kigo, at least not from what I've seen. Is that just me, or is there more to it than that? Those are tiny fringes. They don't dominate the web like Kigo. And as for R/Y, at least it has a canon basis to it. I consider ships like that to be semi-canon. When it's hinted at, but never really takes off, I consider it fair game, so long as it doesn't violate any big character traits without explanation, I.E., making a canonically straight character inexplicably gay/lesbian, making Ron be a jerk to Kim when they break up, Ron doing it without doubts, etc. And no, I'm not homophobic. I'm fine with them. So long as they keep away from my straight characters. If you want to do an issue like that, do it tastefully and seriously, the way the writers at MTV Animation handled it in the uncensored cut of Daria: Is it Fall Yet?. As a recap, there a lesbian who likes her makes Jane question her own sexuality.It's fine to have them question themselves, but don't do it just for the "hawt lezbianz!!!!!1111" factor or in a way that compromises a character's canonical status. That's all I have to say here. And if you want to yell, fine. If you want to insult me, fire away. I will not be moved. This is my stance. Call it wrong, call it right, it's what I think. I just had to say something to that. Who's yelling? (aside from slick, but I imagine he's always yelling ) I agree wholeheartedly, actually. In fact I imagine most people here would agree with your post at least somewhat, so feel free to put the guns away, kay?
|
|
|
Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 25, 2008 13:38:11 GMT -5
Okay, so there you go.... Why the hate? Because to some extremists, it tampers with the fundamental concept of K/R. I didn't see one post from anyone else that "hates" Kigo. Its strictly the hardcore K/R fandom. Hmmm, I wonder if any D/Sers hate Kigo. I don't think I know any. Sorta dislike or be kind of annoyed by it at times, yeah, but I don't think I know any D/Sers that actually HATE Kigo. I wonder why that is? I mean, technically, D/Sers "should" have just as much "reason" to hate Kigo as K/Rers, at least in that it "breaks up their couple". I must admit that I was kind of mystified, when I first began exploring the KP fandom, by the fact that D/S was not the second most popular couple, after K/R, but the third after Kigo. I guess with how the show is, I more or less just assumed that D/S would be more popular, but sadly (for me and my friends, at least), it's not. When I got an email about the Fannie Awards, I wondered why in the world I even got that email, since the Fannie Awards doesn't even have a category for D/S, as far as I could see (please correct me if I'm wrong). It did, however, have a category for Kigo. At the time, this seemed slightly unfair, but I wasn't going to complain because I figured this probably had to do with the preferences of the person/people who made the awards. I have ceased to look for logic in fandoms a long time ago. People in fandoms do whatever they want, and a lot of things in fandoms stray far away from the actual shows/movies/comics/books. And that's okay. It will always be like that. People take the thing they like and explore it however they want, and if somebody comes up with an interesting idea, inspired by something on the show/in the book/comics/series, even if it has little to no root in canon, people may like it, and it may become immensely popular. This isn't just ships. It can be AU universes, it can be OCs, whatever. Anyway, yeah, despite the fact that technically, D/Sers "should have reason to", I wonder why I very seldom (or never, really) meet a D/Ser who HATEhatehates Kigo. Well, here's one hypothesis: D/Sers, as far as I've understood it, have never really seemed to be as protective of canon as some extreme K/Rers. This might be because before Graduation, most of us were under the impression that we were maybe shipping a somewhat (we hoped it would be canon before the end of the show) "non-canon" couple. We saw them as a potential couple, but we didn't know if they'd be one or not. *shrugs*
|
|
|
Post by PoisonousAngel on Mar 25, 2008 14:07:38 GMT -5
I do agree that most KiGo shippers - and I am NOT pointing any out so don't take offense - only ship them, and draw them, and write about them like that because of the 'hawt lezbianz!!!111' thing, like Robbie mentioned. If thats why you like the ship, then thats wrong. Kim and Shego shouldn't be together because it's two girls, they should be together because you believe they can work and love each other just like if it was a male/female relationship.
Me, I like KiGo. I think it's the slash ship that makes most sense. I think that if Kim and Shego were that way, then of course they could work. But I don't like it enough to search the web for it either. Sometimes, like I said before, it just gets annoying.
|
|
|
Post by kimburnpotts on Mar 25, 2008 14:21:03 GMT -5
A few points I would like to make about ships in general : 1. I've seen quality works of art/fiction for several different ships. I do not think you need to support a ship to enjoy quality works supporting the ship. 2. In my experience, very capable fic uthors can make completely unrealistic ships feel realistic while remaining true to the characters. For some, the challenge of presenting an unbelieveable ship as believeable may be the real draw of the ship. 3. Supporting a ship does not mean you would support a ship of similar people in the real world. Just like being a fan of a fictional character does not mean you would be a fan of a similar person in the real world. Think of this: How many of you would be fans of Drakken and Shego if they existed in the "real world"? (Besides Gabby. ) Would you root for people who have tried to take of the world and presumably caused the deaths of thousands of people (or, at the very least, do not appear particularly troubled about possibly causing those deaths?) Generally, "real" people like Drakken and Shego are called terrorists. But they're cartoon characters, and they're fun, and their actions have no consequences on anyone, so we enjoy watching them guiltlessly. So, if we can support characters that we wouldn't support in real life - why not a ship that wouldn't exist in real life? I can understand why many people would prefer to support "realistic" or canon ships, but does a ship have to potentially be capable of existing in the "real world" is order to be valued? 4. As several have pointed out, a ship can be valued for "fanon" value while not being be valued for "canon" purposes. In my opinion, supporting a non-canon ship for the sake of fanon is in no way disrepectful. I can sort of understand, however, why people find it disrespectful to argue that the creaters "messed up" by not making a particular ship canon, or argue that a non-canon ship really IS canon but everyone is too "dumb" to notice. But I don't find it disrespectful to express an interest to have seen a fictional work end differently than it actually did. Are Shakespeare critics being disrespectful towards Shakespeare if they point out what they perceive to be flaws in or errors in judgment? In my opinion, being "disrespectful" would require something like name-calling or other abusive remarks, i.e. "He's an idiot that he didn't end it this way."
|
|