Why the hate for KiGo? Mar 25, 2008 14:59:01 GMT -5
Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 25, 2008 14:59:01 GMT -5
kimburnpotts said:A few points I would like to make about ships in general :
1. I've seen quality works of art/fiction for several different ships. I do not think you need to support a ship to enjoy quality works supporting the ship.
2. In my experience, very capable fic uthors can make completely unrealistic ships feel realistic while remaining true to the characters. For some, the challenge of presenting an unbelieveable ship as believeable may be the real draw of the ship.
3. Supporting a ship does not mean you would support a ship of similar people in the real world.
Just like being a fan of a fictional character does not mean you would be a fan of a similar person in the real world.
Think of this: How many of you would be fans of Drakken and Shego if they existed in the "real world"? (Besides Gabby. ) Would you root for people who have tried to take of the world and presumably caused the deaths of thousands of people (or, at the very least, do not appear particularly troubled about possibly causing those deaths?) Generally, "real" people like Drakken and Shego are called terrorists.
But they're cartoon characters, and they're fun, and their actions have no consequences on anyone, so we enjoy watching them guiltlessly.
So, if we can support characters that we wouldn't support in real life - why not a ship that wouldn't exist in real life? I can understand why many people would prefer to support "realistic" or canon ships, but does a ship have to potentially be capable of existing in the "real world" is order to be valued?
4. As several have pointed out, a ship can be valued for "fanon" value while not being be valued for "canon" purposes.
In my opinion, supporting a non-canon ship for the sake of fanon is in no way disrepectful.
I can sort of understand, however, why people find it disrespectful to argue that the creaters "messed up" by not making a particular ship canon, or argue that a non-canon ship really IS canon but everyone is too "dumb" to notice.
But I don't find it disrespectful to express an interest to have seen a fictional work end differently than it actually did. Are Shakespeare critics being disrespectful towards Shakespeare if they point out what they perceive to be flaws in or errors in judgment?
In my opinion, being "disrespectful" would require something like name-calling or other abusive remarks, i.e. "He's an idiot that he didn't end it this way."
1. True. Like I've said earlier in the thread; several times, I've faved pics of ships I don't support simply because I thought they were well drawn/had some interesting features.
I must admit I'd hesitate to sit through a whole fic concerning a couple I wasn't interested in, though, even if the writing was good (...but I have done it a few times). Just as I'd hesitate to sit through a fic where the couple was interesting to me, but the writing was bad. I guess I need both.
2. I get that completely. I think I saw some of the Kigoers write something like this last year at RS, and I'm sure I've seen it in other fandoms. Some people deliberately write unusual ships (not sure if this counts for Kigo at this point, though, since it's the second biggest ship; 'unusual' would be more like...um, I dunno, Josh/Drakken? ) because they want something different and/or a challenge. Sometimes, that can be interesting.
3. Oh, absolutely. I'd probably be the first to admit-- and have done so to some of my pals around here-- that I wouldn't like Drakken and Shego at all if they were 'real people'.
I mean, seriously-- sure, they're evil, but they're just cute cartoon evil, which doesn't actually have any real consequences, often not even in the cartoon world (for example, we don't see anybody die on KP).
If they were real people in the real world, they'd be very different. They wouldn't be cartoonish and cute, they would be dangerous and a real threat. I mean, who would like people whose plan was to take over the word and enslave them? No one, that's who.
People would think they were insane.
Besides, in the real world, where cartoon laws don't apply (the hero always getting away, for example), they would have already killed Kim years ago-- or they would have been killed by Kim, most likely accidentally, during the explosion of one of their lairs or something.
Or, every time they used a doomsday device, especially something like that thing that caused earthquakes in Clothes Minded, people would get killed.
So...yeah, I wouldn't like them if they were real. You're got a very good point there, Julie.
The last line, though-- well, I can't speak for anybody else, but when I evaluate couples I see in cartoons, I mostly evaluate them on the terms of that universe. Even though I may bring in some more realistic aspects into my stories, I don't think that much about how that couple would be in the "real world". I try to base their interaction and their personalities on what they're like in the cartoon.
If I don't ship a couple, it's because to me, I can't see them working in that cartoon world, not in the "real world".
But I get your point. Ship and let ship, and I agree whole-heartedly.
Also, there's really no reason why people who support canon ships should hate or even feel 'threatened' by non-canon ships. It's not as if people are going to write 'one fic too many' one fateful day, and the amount of fics with non-canon ships is going to magically transform the show.
Canon will remain the way it is forever, unless they decide to make a completely unexpected season 5. ;D
But I suppose they feel more 'threatened' when it comes to fanon, maybe. I dunno, I do get that to a certain degree since I get exasperated when I want to read D/S and there is no D/S, only Kigo and K/R. Still, Kigo doesn't stop anybody from writing fics. Or doing art.
4. Agreed. Completely agreed.
I must say that so far, with a few exceptions, I'm impressed about how nice and civil and even interesting this thread has been so far, which is why I suppose I keep posting here and bothering everybody.
Good job, people.