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Post by beeftony on Apr 27, 2007 12:01:47 GMT -5
Could you give a few more examples of Kim being impulsive than this? 'Cause Ron seems to be a lot more impulsive than Kim, IMO. Then you and I have different ideas of "impulsive." Kim rarely thinks before she acts. She's likely to charge head on into a situation without thinking of the consequences. I don't have to give examples, as this is a major part of her character, but I will. Missions. That's the only example you need. This is a girl who goes to Tokyo on a school night. As I recall, Ron is always the one who protests and tries to get Kim to think of the potential consequences, even if those consequences are only the product of his mind. At least Ron THINKS about the danger before he acts. Kim just charges in guns blazing (figuratively speaking). Now, before you say that Kim is usually the voice of reason, you're right. But it takes Ron bringing up his ridiculous conclusions to make her think about the situation long enough to correct him. Important mission details may have never crossed her mind if Ron hadn't brought them up. Abstaining from sex is not necessarily strictly a religious or moral choice. I can see them going as far as they are comfortable with going. That's where you and I differ. I see them going as far as RON is comfortable with going. As I've already established, Kim is not the type of girl to think about the potential consequences of this sort of thing. She's also an "all or nothing" character. She's likely to keep going until Ron stops her. That actually sounds exactly like the plot of "Confessions of Little Black Dress". Great fic. ? That's exactly the fic I was referencing. Good eye. Anyway... I don't know about this. It's also entirely likely that Ron has those kinds of impulses once in a while. He just doesn't act on it. At least not in public. ;D On average, the human male has a sexual thought every six seconds. Even more so with teenagers (I know because I am one). Ron's impulsivity is of a different nature than Kim's. Kim tends to charge headlong into situations without thinking of the consequences, whereas Ron simply arrives at conclusions (usually the wrong ones) very, very quickly, quickly enough to stop and make Kim think. It's also fast enough to make him realize that he really shouldn't act on his sexual desires unless the person towards whom he has those desires is willing. Kim Possible, our Kim Possible, for whom it took a moodulator to admit openly she had romantic feelings for Ron, jumping him at the slightest snide comment from Bonnie? She's competitive, but c'mon. The same girl who didn't kiss Eric even though she wanted to, having her way with Ron in the janitor's closet? Don't think so. Not the K.P. we've been presented with so far. Doesn't sound like her at all. Don't be so sure. Keep in mind that Bonnie was only talking about prom dates in StD, not sex. If sex had been the topic of discussion, things may have gone far differently. I have no doubt that Bonnie gave her virginity away long ago (probably to Brick), and as much as I hate to admit it, the rest of the girls on the cheer squad have probably all had their cherries popped as well. Kim is usually the last to conform to the group. The "food chain" thing was an excuse for her to avoid her feelings for Ron, who wasn't telling her how he felt about her or giving her any sign of romantic interest. If she cared that much about the food chain, why would she hang with Ron at all? The keyword here is peer pressure. It's an ugly thing. I've experienced it firsthand. I'm not talking about a slight snide comment from Bonnie. I'm talking about the entire cheer squad making her feel like an outsider just because she hasn't "given it up" like they have. It's a very, very powerful force, one that leads thousands of girls every year to become pregnant simply because they couldn't deal with the social pressure of waiting. And while you may argue that Kim doesn't care what other people think, I say this: she does. A lot. Ron is the one who could care less what other people say about him, and he is thus a safe haven for Kim. Which brings up another point. Kim wasn't exactly comfortable with Josh or Eric. She didn't know them all that well. She's known Ron her entire life. For all we know (though this is highly doubtful), they've been playing "doctor" since they were six. Ron is where Kim takes refuge from the cruel social pressures of the world. Now, I'm not saying Ron is the type to take advantage of her, but he also places her happiness above his own. If it weren't for the other reasons I mentioned, he'd likely submit to Kim's desires (geez, I'm making Ron sound like the girl, aren't I? lol). That's pretty much Kim's prime objective, too, isn't it? With these two, it's a two way street; they keep each other in balance. The fic could have worked just as well if it had been focused on Ron instead. Again, love that fic, it's one of my favorites. Exactly. It's the only reason I'm still able to believe their relationship. Not that it really matters to me whether she is or not, but I'm willing to bet that she's still a virgin. Funny how Kim's virginity status comes up time and again, but not Ron's. Interesting. Let me make my view on this very clear: Kim is probably still a virgin, but "just barely." To avoid repeating myself, see the rest of this post.
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Apr 27, 2007 12:23:54 GMT -5
There is a huge difference between being impulsive and, for lack of a better word, slutty.
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Post by Baroque on Apr 27, 2007 17:10:11 GMT -5
Beeftoney is the reason i don't post a tv.com anymore. He will believe what he want's. Personally all the kigo defenders want to believe Kim has her virginity loss because that somehow gives them hope kim would want a lezbian relationship as funny as that sounds. Yes...no. Anyway, I think Kim and Ron are for sure still virgins. Why? Well, I'm rather sure both waited for their very special person, and now that they have finally confessed their feelings and are a couple now, they want it to be perfect when it happens. On the other hand, if I think about it...they trust each other completely already, something that has to be developed in other relationships over a long time. A huge factor to the "perfection" of the first time. Perhaps the most important. The only things holding them back may now be how they were brought up (wait until wedding etc.) or their conscience ("What would my parents think?"). I think they'll wait until they are married or both feel completely ready but I'm sure they either already have or will explore each others body.
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Post by Comrade_Chin on Apr 27, 2007 20:02:51 GMT -5
I think they already explored each others body in Mind Games.
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Post by ninjacat on Apr 27, 2007 20:21:48 GMT -5
If it weren't for the other reasons I mentioned, he'd likely submit to Kim's desires (geez, I'm making Ron sound like the girl, aren't I? lol). It's no accident, the show likes to switch gender roles between Ron and Kim; Ron cooks and takes care of a baby while Kim takes charge of things and kick villains around There's hints that can go eighter way, and I think that's intentional. They could have kissed only once for all the proof we have... Oh, and wanting to get this far with Ron wouldn't mean Kim is a pervert, in fact it would be perfectly normal. It would be ridiculously easy for them to set up too. It's not like they didn't go on a bogus mission to Paris after all Still, it's perfectly plausible that they didn't go very far yet. On missions there's Rufus, I don't see team Possible doing the naughty in from of Ron's too-smart pet. And doing it in eighter's room is just asking for trouble. but most of all; Kim is a perfectionist, she'll want her first time to be just perfect. Dinner with candles, long romantic evening, long, slow preliminaries with the Top Gun soundtrack in the background... ...And that perfect scenario isn't going to happen anytime soon with Ron as a participant ;D
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Post by dracko19 on Apr 27, 2007 21:26:30 GMT -5
I'm watching this thread closely. These topics tend to get very passionate opinions (Pardon the pun). Make sure you keep those opinions respectful and don't slam them down each other's throats. As a warning, try and stay away from religion in this discussion or it could lead this onto a very off-topic path.
On the topic of this show being on "Disney", so we won't see making out, etc.. I believe BOY MEETS WORLD was on Disney wasn't it? That show had kids getting drunk, child abuse, sex, death, harrassment, etc.. Its not "unprecedented" for this topic to be explored on DC.
Howerver, the creators have stated pretty clearly that nothing 'serious" will happen that we will see. So obviously, this dicsussion goes into fantasy land. Since it is fantasy, you don't have to worry about going "It wont happen cuz its on Disney" route. Nothing you are talking about in this thread is going to be "shown" on Disney. This is basically a Fan Fic thread.
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Post by Commander Argus on Apr 27, 2007 21:39:15 GMT -5
It's also about interpreting what we do actually see, and what's going through their minds, as well as what happens 'off camera'
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Post by spacefreak on Apr 27, 2007 23:03:29 GMT -5
Yeah, how come DC hasn't come up with an updated version of Boy Meets World, or at least approached some of the topics from that series? I was a little young when it came on, but from what I've heard about it, it sounds like was really good and dealt with a LOT of real-life situations.
Somehow the only thing I know about the show is the name Topanga.
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Post by Commander Argus on Apr 27, 2007 23:06:18 GMT -5
"Ron" and "Brick" were roomates (their voice actors)
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Post by slicknickshady on Apr 28, 2007 0:07:53 GMT -5
It's also about interpreting what we do actually see, and what's going through their minds, as well as what happens 'off camera' Yep i agree. I don't believe it's a fan fiction thread since kim & ron are actually dating. It's the stuff as through what we actually see and off camera activities. Plus the relationship between kim and ron is actually happening. I agree though with what Dracko says on the Religion aspect. You can make your points for or against without bringing religion up. "Ron" and "Brick" were roomates (their voice actors) Who in boy meets world did Brick? Also from that comment in so the drama i think it's safe to say him and bonnie rounded the bases a few times.
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Post by beeftony on Apr 28, 2007 0:37:32 GMT -5
Yep i agree. I don't believe it's a fan fiction thread since kim & ron are actually dating. It's the stuff as through what we actually see and off camera activities. Plus the relationship between kim and ron is actually happening. While my view is similar, you have to remember that these are fictional characters. It's not happening IRL. Though I wish it were.... *Feels saddened* Who in boy meets world did Brick? Rider Strong is Brick's VA. Also from that comment in so the drama i think it's safe to say him and bonnie rounded the bases a few times. Agreed. Why else would they keep getting back together so many times?
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Post by slicknickshady on Apr 28, 2007 1:10:56 GMT -5
Yep i agree. I don't believe it's a fan fiction thread since kim & ron are actually dating. It's the stuff as through what we actually see and off camera activities. Plus the relationship between kim and ron is actually happening. While my view is similar, you have to remember that these are fictional characters. It's not happening IRL. Though I wish it were.... *Feels saddened* Rider Strong is Brick's VA. Also from that comment in so the drama i think it's safe to say him and bonnie rounded the bases a few times. Agreed. Why else would they keep getting back together so many times? I love how Brick is probably with college girls. I'm really intrigued with the Homecoming Upset episode. Does bonnie win homecoming queen? Does she start Crushing on Ron? Does she hook up with SSJ?
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Post by Rognik on Apr 28, 2007 2:17:20 GMT -5
On the topic of this show being on "Disney", so we won't see making out, etc.. I believe BOY MEETS WORLD was on Disney wasn't it? That show had kids getting drunk, child abuse, sex, death, harrassment, etc.. Its not "unprecedented" for this topic to be explored on DC. All right, I'll revise: It won't happen because it's a cartoon. No western cartoon really broaches mature topics. Live actions seem more willing to do this, probably a maturity factor.
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Post by Kimron Posstoppable on Apr 28, 2007 3:03:41 GMT -5
Could you give a few more examples of Kim being impulsive than this? 'Cause Ron seems to be a lot more impulsive than Kim, IMO. Then you and I have different ideas of "impulsive." Kim rarely thinks before she acts. She's likely to charge head on into a situation without thinking of the consequences. I don't have to give examples, as this is a major part of her character, but I will. Missions. That's the only example you need. This is a girl who goes to Tokyo on a school night. As I recall, Ron is always the one who protests and tries to get Kim to think of the potential consequences, even if those consequences are only the product of his mind. At least Ron THINKS about the danger before he acts. Kim just charges in guns blazing (figuratively speaking). Kim's an action hero. Action heroes tend to leap into action when duty calls. Her personal/romantic life is a different matter entirely. Now, before you say that Kim is usually the voice of reason, you're right. But it takes Ron bringing up his ridiculous conclusions to make her think about the situation long enough to correct him. Important mission details may have never crossed her mind if Ron hadn't brought them up. Actually, That sounds more like Darkwing Duck and Launchpad McQuack's relationship than Kim and Ron's to me. I think I see what you're saying, but I can't say I completely agree with it. When Kim goes into action, she's behaving as any other action hero would. She has a job to do and feels the need to act when the need arises. She also tends to regularly confer with Wade before (or sometimes during) a mission to see what she's getting into. That's hardly impulsive. It's responsible and clear-minded. Their regular chats at her locker or on her Kimmunicator every episode aren't about the weather, y'know. Again, I'd still really like to see examples from the show to back up what you're saying. Why? Because we're discussing what may be going on within the context of what's happening on the show. It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. I'm not asking to be snippy or picky or mean, it's because I honestly want to know where you're getting this point of view so I understand where you're coming from. Abstaining from sex is not necessarily strictly a religious or moral choice. I can see them going as far as they are comfortable with going. That's where you and I differ. I see them going as far as RON is comfortable with going. As I've already established, Kim is not the type of girl to think about the potential consequences of this sort of thing. She's also an "all or nothing" character. She's likely to keep going until Ron stops her. Wait... Why is it so important that how far Kim and Ron go isn't a choice they both make but something for only Ron to decide whether or not anything will happen or how far they will go? If I were to take anything from the previously mentioned "Confessions of a Little Black Dress" (last time I'll reference a fan-fic here), it would be that Kim and Ron would be intimate on their own terms. That actually sounds exactly like the plot of "Confessions of Little Black Dress". Great fic. That's exactly the fic I was referencing. Good eye. I thought so. Good fic. On average, the human male has a sexual thought every six seconds. Even more so with teenagers (I know because I am one). Ron's impulsivity is of a different nature than Kim's. Kim tends to charge headlong into situations without thinking of the consequences, whereas Ron simply arrives at conclusions (usually the wrong ones) very, very quickly, quickly enough to stop and make Kim think. It's also fast enough to make him realize that he really shouldn't act on his sexual desires unless the person towards whom he has those desires is willing. As someone up-thread noted, Kim seems to be more tentative in her relationships. I don't see any evidence of impulsiveness in this particular area. Her action hero life is very different from her personal/romantic life. Don't be so sure. Keep in mind that Bonnie was only talking about prom dates in StD, not sex. If sex had been the topic of discussion, things may have gone far differently. Maybe, but sex would never come up because it's a Disney show. Never mind. I have no doubt that Bonnie gave her virginity away long ago (probably to Brick), and as much as I hate to admit it, the rest of the girls on the cheer squad have probably all had their cherries popped as well. Kim is usually the last to conform to the group. As far as we know, Bonnie could still be a virgin. Being a virgin does not necessarily mean a person is nice, good, or innocent. There is no advantage for a girl (at least not in the U.S.A.) to brag openly about her conquests, whether they are real or imagined. Plus, there are a lot of teens who outright lie about how much or how little "experience" they've had, so I take reports of rampant teenage sex with a grain of salt. *sigh* I would so love to see the day when the virgin status of the male characters of this show are discussed as regularly (and at times disparagingly) as the female characters. [/sarcasm] Why is it assumed all the cheerleaders but Kim aren't virgins? Why does it even matter? Can we not go there, please? The keyword here is peer pressure. It's an ugly thing. I've experienced it firsthand. I'm not talking about a slight snide comment from Bonnie. I'm talking about the entire cheer squad making her feel like an outsider just because she hasn't "given it up" like they have. It's a very, very powerful force, one that leads thousands of girls every year to become pregnant simply because they couldn't deal with the social pressure of waiting. And while you may argue that Kim doesn't care what other people think, I say this: she does. A lot. Ron is the one who could care less what other people say about him, and he is thus a safe haven for Kim. Kim does care what people think, I'm not going to dispute that. She spent a whole episode looking for the perfect new mission outfit. Looking good while doing good and all that, you know. She has an image to maintain after all. Maybe I'm showing my age, but is it really the thing for girls to give the impression that they're not virgins these days? Are they really racing each other to be deflowered to impress each other? Because the last time I checked, society looked down on females who are sexually active, even if they are monogamous. Ron is where Kim takes refuge from the cruel social pressures of the world. And vice versa. Now, I'm not saying Ron is the type to take advantage of her, but he also places her happiness above his own. If it weren't for the other reasons I mentioned, he'd likely submit to Kim's desires Would it be taking advantage if she actually wants to do it? Is it submission if her desires mirror his own? (geez, I'm making Ron sound like the girl, aren't I? lol). Stereotypically speaking, yes. I'm watching this thread closely. These topics tend to get very passionate opinions (Pardon the pun). Make sure you keep those opinions respectful and don't slam them down each other's throats. As a warning, try and stay away from religion in this discussion or it could lead this onto a very off-topic path. I'm actually surprised at how relatively civil the conversation has been so far. I've seen topics like this get really ugly really fast. On the topic of this show being on "Disney", so we won't see making out, etc.. I believe BOY MEETS WORLD was on Disney wasn't it? That show had kids getting drunk, child abuse, sex, death, harrassment, etc.. Its not "unprecedented" for this topic to be explored on DC. BMW was a live-action show, though. Disney has yet to have an animated show that covers those issues, at least not overtly. In any case, that would be really cool and interesting and as we all know, Disney wouldn't do that. Not on purpose, anyway. However, the creators have stated pretty clearly that nothing 'serious" will happen that we will see. So obviously, this discussion goes into fantasy land. Since it is fantasy, you don't have to worry about going "It wont happen cuz its on Disney" route. Nothing you are talking about in this thread is going to be "shown" on Disney. This is basically a Fan Fic thread. If I'm not mistaken, the premise of the thread was reading between the lines of things that are actually happening on the show to figure out what Kim and Ron are up to, not strictly fan-fic discussion. but most of all; Kim is a perfectionist, she'll want her first time to be just perfect. Dinner with candles, long romantic evening, long, slow preliminaries with the Top Gun soundtrack in the background... ...And that perfect scenario isn't going to happen anytime soon with Ron as a participant ;D Oh, the comedic possibilities for this! I don't mean the usual sit-com-y "Comedy of Errors" type stuff either. This show is better than that. LOL @ "Top Gun" soundtrack.
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Post by Rognik on Apr 28, 2007 3:30:10 GMT -5
but most of all; Kim is a perfectionist, she'll want her first time to be just perfect. Dinner with candles, long romantic evening, long, slow preliminaries with the Top Gun soundtrack in the background... ...And that perfect scenario isn't going to happen anytime soon with Ron as a participant ;D Oh, the comedic possibilities for this! I don't mean the usual sit-com-y "Comedy of Errors" type stuff either. This show is better than that. LOL @ "Top Gun" soundtrack. Too true there. Kim imagines rose petals and poetry. Meanwhile, Ron breaks the door down and poses in his underwear. "Suddenly, the romance was lost." Even if it weren't so blunt, Ron is an accident about to happen. It's just not clear how the accident will occur.
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Post by Commander Argus on Apr 28, 2007 19:32:06 GMT -5
I tend to think of it more like "It started with kissing...and ended with 'what did we just do?'"
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Apr 28, 2007 20:22:44 GMT -5
One thing to consider is that just because a couple is acting secretive and romantic does not mean they are having sex--they could just be secretive and romantic because they're in love.
Ah, BMW. Now I miss that show. Don't get to watch it much anymore, and its DVDs didn't sell. Sigh. One thing you have to remember about BMW on DC is that Disney edited that show quite a bit. It was originally on ABC, if I'm not mistaken, where it wasn't held to the same standards.
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Post by cloudmonet on Apr 29, 2007 2:45:39 GMT -5
I'm not sure whether to roll my eyes or what. It's deja vu time, and these threads almost always end up getting locked. But just so you know my own prejudices— I have nothing against premarital sex. If I did I'd be a major hypocrite, cause I've never had any other kind. In my fanfiction series, I had Kim and Ron begin sleeping together ("Party time," Monique called it) the summer after graduation, while they were dealing with a fictional famine in one of the Congo countries. Shortly after this they became engaged. But this was playing off "So the Drama." What about the real season four? Inconclusive. And I wouldn't even try to make any guesses about any trends until I'm able to watch a fuller spectrum of episodes in order. I'm not sure I see any trend in the relationship at all, other than Ron's initial insecurity in "Ill Suited" going away. They're absolutely tight, and though Kim sometimes complains about one thing or another (and reasonably so), she stays totally attached to Ron. Maybe he's really good at the things we're not gonna see him do. Maybe there's other reasons. I'm not ready to make a conclusion. "Making out" has always been a splendidly vague term, usually involving both kissing and hands moving around bodies, and usually but not always falling somewhere short of actually "making love," which usually involves removed clothes, etc. Could the prom kiss be called "making out"? Yeah, probably. That was one heck of a kiss. Does this imply more "making out"? Hey, they've got means, motive, and opportunity, so probably. Exactly what is getting touched? Don't know. This season we're hearing much more talk about the relationship, and seeing much less touching. Even this moment from season two, in the right context, could be part of making out. She could rub his shoulders, then kiss her way around his neck to his lips, and... you see? They probably are "making out" in season four. Is he fondling her angles? I haven't seen much that either suggests this or rules it out. What was that, Ron? Been there, done that, season one? Ah, those big hands, just made for making out...
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Apr 29, 2007 10:15:42 GMT -5
I tend to think of it more like "It started with kissing...and ended with 'what did we just do?'" I agree. Intimacy is spontaneous. I think that with Kim and Ron it'll be something that just... happens.
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Post by ninjanaco on Apr 29, 2007 10:34:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure whether to roll my eyes or what. It's deja vu time, and these threads almost always end up getting locked. But just so you know my own prejudices— I have nothing against premarital sex. If I did I'd be a major hypocrite, cause I've never had any other kind. Neither did St. Augustine. Of course, he converted after that... And that's one of the bonuses of us having a season 4! Well, from my single, virgin, never-had-a-girlfriend perspective, "making out" seems more like a process than a single act. The StD kiss, while passionate, seems to have been a solitary event, with no real evidence suggesting "play" immediately after. And, of course, what would a cloudmonet post be without eisegesis? Those screencaps prove s1/s2 "fondling" as much as these Ill-Suited screenshots: "prove" Kim/Monique. You read way too much into things.
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