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Post by beeftony on Apr 30, 2007 15:50:50 GMT -5
But that doesn't mean I can't have my own interpretation of the characters. Unlike you, I don't swallow what I'm told. I think outside the box. I know that you're biased against fanfiction, so it's probably not a good example to bring up, but all I'll say is that a lot of the people on this board are either into fanficition or have written it themselves, and I very much doubt that they think of canon as the be-all end-all. Often times fans can take a series and make it even better. But if you'd rather sit in a box and stay in denial that's fine with me. Just don't try and make me do the same.
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Post by slicknickshady on Apr 30, 2007 15:56:19 GMT -5
But that doesn't mean I can't have my own interpretation of the characters. Unlike you, I don't swallow what I'm told. I think outside the box. I know that you're biased against fanfiction, so it's probably not a good example to bring up, but all I'll say is that a lot of the people on this board are either into fanficition or have written it themselves, and I very much doubt that they think of canon as the be-all end-all. Often times fans can take a series and make it even better. But if you'd rather sit in a box and stay in denial that's fine with me. Just don't try and make me do the same. I'm not in Denial. TPTB said it so it's true. I'm not swallowing anything. I think outside the box when it comes to canon. Fans can't make a series better imo because It's only a series because of the Creators. There would be no series without Bob, Mark, and the rest of TPTB. That's all im saying. Without them there would be no fan fiction to write. Please let's respect Dracko19 and not do this here. If you want to call me out do it on pm. Please let's get this back on topic before one of us says something that get's us in trouble. So have we came to any conclusion on the definitions of the bases? It seems a lot of us have different ideas of what it is.
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Post by Rognik on Apr 30, 2007 18:47:59 GMT -5
I know I'm going to regret getting inbetween you two and fuelling this fight, but... "Oh, TPTB say it's true so it has to be true and everyone must follow it!" And do you know what else? I found this funny book called the Bible. Say, this is the word of God given down to man. EVERYTHING in this book must be true. God created the world in 7 days? So be it. The universe is only 6000 years old? It has to be, because I can add up the years in the Bible!
Now, I immediately appologize to any hard-core Christians out there, but I'm trying to make a point. If the Bible WAS the be all and end all, then there wouldn't be quite so many Buddhists, Shintoists and Atheists out there. And all beeftony is trying to do is have a discussion based on character action. Sure, Kim and Ron won't break up in canon, but does that mean they can't hypothetically break up? That in college, something weird happens and they just don't feel the same way any more? It's in the realm of possibility, and not totally unheard of happening. Just because The Powers That Be say something is true doesn't mean that a hypothetical discussion can't contradict it. That's why forums like this are great: so people can express their opinions, no matter how fe-reaky or wrongsick they are.
Now, if the two of you can't get along, I suggest the two of you play in different corners. I have many times resisted the urge to post something because I KNOW what will happen, and personally, I don't think either one of you two replying to the other can produce anything good. So, once again I'd like to wave my giant fire extinguisher and humbly request you two stop this mutli-fronted flame war. Please, for all of our sakes, just agree to disagree and leave it be!
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Post by slicknickshady on Apr 30, 2007 18:59:03 GMT -5
A hypothetical discussion can't contradict what TPTB say. They created the show and have stated ron and kim will be together always so it's not conceivable that they will break up because well TPTB have said they wont. I agree with the just agree to disagree and leave it be part of your post though.
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Post by beeftony on Apr 30, 2007 19:11:39 GMT -5
They created the show and have stated ron and kim will be together always so it's not conceivable that they will break up because well TPTB have said they wont. Circular reasoning much? You're saying the same thing at the beginning and the end and joining them with "because." That's two logical fallacies from you today. Wanna go for three? Seriously though, let's just agree to disagree since it's obvious that we're getting nowhere.
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Post by Commander Argus on Apr 30, 2007 19:15:29 GMT -5
Both of you, back to your corners.
Now back to discussing whether Kim and Ron are getting it on.
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Post by slicknickshady on Apr 30, 2007 20:02:23 GMT -5
Seriously though, let's just agree to disagree since it's obvious that we're getting nowhere. I agree. Both of you, back to your corners. Now back to discussing whether Kim and Ron are getting it on. Commander with the best response yet. Why did i not think of that? ;D
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Post by rela on Apr 30, 2007 20:14:50 GMT -5
Okay, I've noticed several points that kind of bug me. 1. There is more than 45% of high schoolers having sex. Sorry to break it to you. I go to a highly established school with an excellent sex ed program and I can tell you that at least 60% of the kids at my school are sexually active. My Sociology class did a survey last year which came to about that number (and our sample was from AP classes). 45% is the number they give you so you won't give in to peer pressure. 2. Premarital sex has nothing to do with morals! Even Buddhists are only opposed to irresponsible sexual activity. If you love someone, sleeping with them is not irresponsible! It is my personal experience that waiting is irresponsible, because if you marry someone and find out you have no sexual chemistry, then bummer for you! Besides, I have no intention of ever getting hitched, and I'm surely not going to stay a virgin forever! 3. The speculation of Kim and Ron's possible break-up is the reason I'm not getting married! That's just my two cents. Personally, I see them becoming intimate in college, perhaps at around age 20 or so. ;D
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Post by slicknickshady on Apr 30, 2007 20:17:14 GMT -5
Okay, I've noticed several points that kind of bug me. 1. There is more than 45% of high schoolers having sex. Sorry to break it to you. I go to a highly established school with an excellent sex ed program and I can tell you that at least 60% of the kids at my school are sexually active. My Sociology class did a survey last year which came to about that number (and our sample was from AP classes). 45% is the number they give you so you won't give in to peer pressure. 2. Premarital sex has nothing to do with morals! Even Buddhists are only opposed to irresponsible sexual activity. If you love someone, sleeping with them is not irresponsible! It is my personal experience that waiting is irresponsible, because if you marry someone and find out you have no sexual chemistry, then bummer for you! Besides, I have no intention of ever getting hitched, and I'm surely not going to stay a virgin forever! 3. The speculation of Kim and Ron's possible break-up is the reason I'm not getting married! That's just my two cents. Personally, I see them becoming intimate in college, perhaps at around age 20 or so. ;D Actually i always thought it was more than 45%. I still go by that number because that's what most sources say. Nobodys really gonna have an completely accurate sample size. It's different in every part of the country. My town Jackson michigan has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the United States. So yes it's higher here then it would be in some other places.
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Post by ninjanaco on Apr 30, 2007 20:55:11 GMT -5
Okay, I've noticed several points that kind of bug me. And your opinions bug me. So we're even. And, well, I've said my piece. There's nothing to determine whether or not Kim and Ron will engage in marital relations before getting married (as they probably will do), but there's good grounds to believe that they'll wait.
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Post by Kimron Posstoppable on Apr 30, 2007 23:18:25 GMT -5
Can we refrain from dragging religion into this, please? Please? Unless it's an assumption of Kim and Ron would do according to their beliefs, it's really off topic, IMO. Where is this 45% figure coming from? Is this a number that was pulled out of the air or is it a legitimate statistic? In any case, it still suggests that 55% of teens (the majority of them) aren't having sex. Kim and Ron are likely in that 55%. But that doesn't mean I can't have my own interpretation of the characters. Unlike you, I don't swallow what I'm told. I think outside the box. I know that you're biased against fanfiction, so it's probably not a good example to bring up, but all I'll say is that a lot of the people on this board are either into fanficition or have written it themselves, and I very much doubt that they think of canon as the be-all end-all. Often times fans can take a series and make it even better. But if you'd rather sit in a box and stay in denial that's fine with me. Just don't try and make me do the same. The topics in the "Rufus, Kim and Me!" section are mostly discussions and observations about what is actually going on on the show. If you'd rather think outside the box and not give examples from the show to back yourself up, it's probably best if you go to the "Fan Fiction" section of the board. I do in fact, regularly read and write fan fiction (in fact, you've reviewed one of my fics and still value the canon of the show. Fan fiction is a great creative outlet for what you'd like to see happen, but it's not canon, no matter how much you'd like it to be. It's not unreasonable for people to ask you to remain on topic and discuss things that have actually happened on the show.
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Post by Levelord on Apr 30, 2007 23:35:49 GMT -5
Meh, I like canon, but I also like to make stuff up. It makes the show my own in a sort of way...
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Post by Kimron Posstoppable on Apr 30, 2007 23:37:10 GMT -5
Meh, I like canon, but I also like to make stuff up. It makes the show my own in a sort of way... I do, too. Otherwise I wouldn't write fan fiction. That's not what being discussed here, though.
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Post by beeftony on Apr 30, 2007 23:46:35 GMT -5
The topics in the "Rufus, Kim and Me!" section are mostly discussions and observations about what is actually going on on the show. If you'd rather think outside the box and not give examples from the show to back yourself up, it's probably best if you go to the "Fan Fiction" section of the board. I do in fact, regularly read and write fan fiction (in fact, you've reviewed one of my fics and still value the canon of the show. Fan fiction is a great creative outlet for what you'd like to see happen, but it's not canon, no matter how much you'd like it to be. It's not unreasonable for people to ask you to remain on topic and discuss things that have actually happened on the show. Fair enough. However, as far as this thread goes: Howerver, the creators have stated pretty clearly that nothing 'serious" will happen that we will see. So obviously, this dicsussion goes into fantasy land. Since it is fantasy, you don't have to worry about going "It wont happen cuz its on Disney" route. Nothing you are talking about in this thread is going to be "shown" on Disney. This is basically a Fan Fic thread.
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Post by Kimron Posstoppable on Apr 30, 2007 23:53:11 GMT -5
The topics in the "Rufus, Kim and Me!" section are mostly discussions and observations about what is actually going on on the show. If you'd rather think outside the box and not give examples from the show to back yourself up, it's probably best if you go to the "Fan Fiction" section of the board. I do in fact, regularly read and write fan fiction (in fact, you've reviewed one of my fics and still value the canon of the show. Fan fiction is a great creative outlet for what you'd like to see happen, but it's not canon, no matter how much you'd like it to be. It's not unreasonable for people to ask you to remain on topic and discuss things that have actually happened on the show. Fair enough. However, as far as this thread goes: Howerver, the creators have stated pretty clearly that nothing 'serious" will happen that we will see. So obviously, this dicsussion goes into fantasy land. Since it is fantasy, you don't have to worry about going "It wont happen cuz its on Disney" route. Nothing you are talking about in this thread is going to be "shown" on Disney. This is basically a Fan Fic thread. Talk about an appeal to authority. Just for the record, I respectfully disagree with Dracko; this is not a fan fic thread. We're discussing things based on what we see happening on the show, not making up things we'd like to see happen.
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Post by Rognik on Apr 30, 2007 23:55:27 GMT -5
Can we refrain from dragging religion into this, please? Please? I apologise for that, as I made the step. I only meant it as a comparison to slicknickshady's blind devotion to what TPTB say. I don't have any intention to discuss the implications behind my statement, but if people do, they can do so through PMs. Trust me, if I could've thought of any better comparison, I would have used it. I agree that things discussed here should be based on what has actually been seen in the episodes. However, I just feel it should ONLY be based on what's seen in the episodes. Anything TPTB is irrelevent to a hypothetical discussion unless it's clarifying a possibly vague point.
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Post by beeftony on May 1, 2007 0:09:57 GMT -5
A lot of fanfiction involves taking events from the episodes and interpreting them to determine character motivation. I don't see how this is any different. I've used specific examples.
Oh, and as for quoting Dracko's post, that was a necessary appeal to authority as it actually supported my point. Supporting evidence can never be considered a logical fallacy.
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Post by slicknickshady on May 1, 2007 0:19:00 GMT -5
that was a necessary appeal to authority as it actually supported my point. Supporting evidence can never be considered a logical fallacy. Double Standard Much? You can use it but I can't. You can't have it both way's. TPTB is supporting evidence. They are the creators. Also Rognik, It can be used hypothetical discussion. They created the show we are discussing. It's not blind devotion. It's Fact. It's mpt a fallacy. It's fact. Without TPTB KP would have never been created. Just let it die Beef and Rognik. You won't change my mind. It's not unreasonable for people to ask you to remain on topic and discuss things that have actually happened on the show. I have the same view.
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Post by beeftony on May 1, 2007 0:30:01 GMT -5
Double Standard Much? You can use it but I can't. You can't have it both way's. TPTB is supporting evidence. They are the creators. Not in this case. What does the permanence of Kim and Ron's relationship have to do with whether or not they'll have sex? It wasn't necessary to bring that up. Also Rognik, It can be used hypothetical discussion. They created the show we are discussing. It's not blind devotion. It's Fact. It's mpt a fallacy. It's fact. Without TPTB KP would have never been created. Again, I ask, what does that have to do with this topic? Just let it die Beef and Rognik. You won't change my mind. Not gonna stop me from trying.
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Post by slicknickshady on May 1, 2007 0:35:05 GMT -5
It's not unreasonable for people to ask you to remain on topic and discuss things that have actually happened on the show. I agree. My answer is still........... 1st Base = YES 2nd Base = YES 3rd Base = COLLEGE Home = Whatever floats ya boat
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