Dialogues or details?

[mrpotty]

When you write a fanfiction, does it contain more dialogues or more details? And when you read one, which one do you like more?
I really try to bring in more details about feelings and what the characters are doing right now, but unfortunately (?) it always ends up in long dialogues.
I must confess: I write good dialogues (this is not my oppinion, it's the oppinion of my reviewers), but sometimes I wish I would let them talk less.
In the story I'm writing now, the first 2 pages of chapter two are a dialogue between Drakken and Shego about Movies and dating. (Who said Tarantino? F*** Tarantino! Kevin Smith, Coen Brothers, Peter Thorwart & Woody Allen 4ever! ;D )
Uhm...whatever...tell me about your opinion...

[Guest 1337]

This isn't the answer you'd want to hear, but it depends, both are important. I like well written dialogue but I dont like it sitting in the middle of nowhere, even a few words to perhaps set the emotion behind the talking can help. For example:

"Dr D, when was the last time one of your plans worked?"

vs.

Shego threw up her hands in exapseration.
"Dr D, when was the last time one of your plans worked?" she hissed through gritted teeth, her frustration evident.

I'd prefer something like the 2nd line

[Quin Separable]

[glow=red,2,300]I agree with Guest. Dialouge is alright, but it's just those added details that can make all the difference![/glow]

[Laur Stoppable]

I like details and put lots in my fanfics.

[Cyberwraith9]

Not only do you need both, but it's important to know what to put in and what details to leave out in terms of both dialogue and details. To illustrate dialogue:

Nuh-Uh:

Kim leaned in, frowning with concern. "Ron, are you all right?"

"Kim," said Ron, "Let me explain, in painful detail, the nature of my feelings for you, and why this heartache is causing the adverse physiological reaction you see before you."

"Oh...okay," drawled Kim, shying back and eyeing the gathered throng in Bueno Nacho for an opening to facilitate her quick exit.

Yuh-Huh:

Kim leaned in, frowning with concern. "Ron, are you all right?"

Ron glanced up. "Huh? Oh, yeah. Sure, KP, I'm just..." He paused. "Yeah."

See? In the first segment, Ron sounds like he's been possessed by the ghost of a Victorian-era novel hopped up on expositorium (which we'll assume is some sort of opiate that makes characters long-winded). He's out of character, has the wrong voice, and worst of all, he's spoon-feeding his readers information which they should be discerning via other details, which we see in the second segment: Ron's clearly feeling uncomfortable, enough so for Kim to notice, and it's something he doesn't want to talk about with her. Could it be feelings? Ding-ding-ding!

Out of Character is one of the most rampant problems in fanfiction, and can easily turn a reader off to a story. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked that ol' back-button on my browser when Ron starts using words (like the abovementioned "physiological") that he couldn't spell, much less work into an actual conversation. Luckily, it's one of the easiest to fix as well. Writing dialogue is a simple, step-by-step process:
1. Figure out what your character has to say. What information does he need to convey? Is there any way you can convey it without dialogue?

2. Factor in how your character feels. Is he nervous? Excited? Sad? Hungry? Whatever his mood, it'll affect his delivery.

3. Know your frikkin' character. Know what kind of words he uses. You can't start writing a dramatic monologue for Ron, and then toss in a "Booyah" just to remind people that it is Ron. What other kinds of words does Ron use in specific moods? How does he speak to certain characters? You'll notice, Ron talks to Mr. Dr. P with a certain respect that he doesn't usually afford other adults.

4. Put it all together. And remember, keep it simple and straight-forward. A good clue is to start reading the dialogue aloud. If you could never imagine it coming up in a real (or even fictional) situation, it's a good bet that you've got a stinker there. Next, try to imagine your character saying it. Imagine his voice in your head. If it sounds like him, the line's a winner.

But others noted, dialogue is only half the battle. Unfortunatley, how much description you put in depends entirely on your own style. There are, of couse, certain mistakes I always like to avoid, which I'm willing to share with you now, in my boundless, arrogant generosity:

1. Important details are the only details that should ever see the light of day. For this, Tolkein is a great example of what not to do. If you've spent three pages describing a tree that your characters pass, that tree darn well better be the crux of your story; fight scenes, love scenes, tragedy. Hell, the tree should be the main character at that point.

Remember, if it doesn't add anything to the story, don't put it in. This means extraneous characters, descriptions, objects, etc. I don't care if you promised to put your friend in your next story; If he or she isn't needed (if there's already a character that exists to do the job), leave him/her out. You think it'd be cool if Ron had a Jaguar? Well, it'd better be important.

2. Long segments of dry description make for bored readers. Instead, try to describe your setting, or an object, by having a character interact with it.

Nuh-Uh:

A smooth metal sphere sat atop Mr. Dr. Possible's work desk. Its glossy surface warped the room's reflection into a funhouse mirror. Some kind of power radiated from the sphere, an intangible warmth despite it being cool to the touch. It weighed about as much as a bowling ball, though it was no bigger than a baseball.

"Neat," said Ron as he lifted it from its place on the desk.

Yuh-Huh:

A glint of metal caught Ron's eye and turned his head as he passed Mr. Dr. Possible's desk. "Neat," said Ron, as he picked up a small, silvery sphere. It carried with it a surprising heft, though it fit neatly in the palm of his hand as he raised it to his face, and tingled with an intangible heat just beneath his skin. A funhouse-mirrored Ron smiled back at him from its cool, rounded surface.

The details given in both sections are the same, only in the second, we discover everything we need to know about the sphere right alongside Ron, giving the reader the illusion of taking an active role in the story. We'll discover even more once Ron drops the device and finds out what it does. ;D

3. This happens to be a personal favorite of mine, and the core of my style, so don't steal it too much Rather than describe the character in a setting, try describing a setting affecting a character.

S'okay:

Kim felt a stiff breeze start up as she walked home.

Me-Likey:

A stiff breeze ruffled Kim's hair as she walked home.

Little things like that can breathe new life into an otherwise boring segment.

I hope some of this helps. Remember, these are just tips. In the end, you'll have the final call to make all on your own. Lord knows I break these rules every now and then, whether I mean to or not. But they sure can't hurt. Good hunting!

Cyberwraith9
Ghost of the Net
and your Queen of Fanfiction

[Kineticboy2001]

Wow! That was extremely helpful, I learned a lot. Now I know why you have such meaningful and descriptive stories. ^^

Queen of Fanfiction. lol. I remember reading that review. XD

[mrpotty]

One simple question and a very good, including one very detailed answer. Cool.
I think this topic turns out into a "Tell how to write dialogues" topic, but that's cool, too.

I got here a sample from my current fanfiction. It's NOT the two-pages-dialogue I was talking about, cause I got no time to translate it. (Remember: English is NOT my native language! And if I wouldn't write KP-Fanfics in Nacospeak, nobody else wo do it!)
Tell me something about:

The now following peace contains the use of a gun and some blood, but in my oppinion it's still comic violence. The f-words are censored (if anyone cares):

(...)
„Whatever“, Walter said, pulled quick and unexpected a small gun out of his bag and shot a part of Drakken’s ear away (don’t know if „shot away“ is right).
„Was..this my ear?“ the shot one asked with the shocked calmness of a man, who lost a body part because of a gun.
Shego, who is usually not so easy to shock, whispered: „Not everything. Only the tip.“<br>„Not my first ear“, Walter said proud and aimed again at Drakken. „You wanna lose some more? Maybe your f****** life? If not, just turn around, take your f****** bullys with you and never come back.“<br>Drakken touched his ear and then looked upset at the blood on his fingers.
„Shego?“<br>Shego stared kinda fascinated at the missing part of Drakken’s ear.
„Shego?“ he repeated.
„Uhm, I’m sorry, what? This is a lot of blood for such a little bit. Maybe there is an artery or something.“<br>„You know what to do.“<br>„Okay.“<br>Shego jumped fast as lightning at Walter and knocked him with one kick out. (Question: Can you knock someone out with a kick? My english...)
„Thanks, but I wanted you to get the first-aid box.“<br>„Do I look like a nurse?“<br>

[Handicraft Nazi]

I wrote 2 'one-shots' before I started up on my chapter story that I'm working on now. In those 2 stories that I wrote, it was mostly just what the character was thinking, so almost all it was, was detail.
A story needs detail though, I really don't like reading stories just have people talking back and forth and you don't know what's going on. Detail gives you a clear picture of what the characters are going through, and helps support the plot even.
OOC (out of character) is also one of my pet peeves it fanfiction. Watch the show, pay close attention to how the character talk and act. That's a hard thing of writing fanfiction, but if your not going to use your original characters don't try to put you own character into Ron's place or whatever.

[zoza]

Look forward to reading the full story, I like fics with lots of Drakken and Shego in them.

"shot a part of Drakken's ear away"

That's not incorrect but in English it would be more usual to say "shot part of Drakken's ear off" BTW, I feel sorry about Drakken's ear ;-)

Yes, you can knock someone out with a kick but the way to write it in English is like this:

and knocked him out with one kick

[OnOn]

Yes:
Shego sighed as she listened to Drakken's plan; again.
"And then..." was all she heard. The rest was nonsense.
"Shego, what do you think?" Drakken asked, satisfied with his scheme, and hoping for praise from his assistant.
"Sure... uh... Yeah!" Shego said spiritedly; hoping her phony smile would be enough to escape a verbal spar.

No:
Shego sighed very heavily as she listened to Doctor Drakken's insidious plot; for the twentith time.
"And then..." was one of the few snippets she heard every so often. The rest was verbal tumult.
"Shego, what do you think of my plan?" Drakken interrogated. He was absurdly proud of this particular scheme and hoped for the undying praise from a certain female employee.
"Sure..." Shego hesitantly said; then brightend. "Yeah!"
She prayed her high spirits would be enough to escape notice.
Drakken looked as though full to burst at Shego's phony smile. Shego smiled weakly, glad to escape verbal sparring with her boss.

No way:
Shego sighed very heavily and loudly as though letting suppressed feelings as she listened to Doctor Drakken's insidious plot; for the twentith time in a row.
"And then..." Shego zoned out and imagined herself lounging on a white sandy beach; far, far away from Drakken's plotting.
"Shego, what do you think of my plan?" Drakken questioned abruptly. He knew he was absurdly proud of this particular scheme, but ignored that fact and hoped for the undying praise from a certain female employee who was sitting ten feet away from him.
"Sure... uh..." Shego hesitantly said, snapping from her daze, unsure of what was actually happening. Realization hit her then she brightend immensly. "Yeah!"
She prayed, silently moving her lips, her high spirits and fake adoration would be enough to escape notice of Drakken's everwatching eye.
Drakken looked as though full to burst at Shego's phony smile; oblivious to the wavering in her voice. Shego smiled weakly with tons of relief, glad to escape verbal sparring with her boss; Dr.Drakkken.

[Scoutcraft Piratess]

I'm a dialogue person. Description can be fun, but with the way I put out information... yeah.

[surforst]

My personal feeling is that you have to sell the story on dialogue. Details alone will get boring real quick while a story with dialogue only can actually be pretty good.

I personally like to keep my stories heavy on the dialogue. I use actually talking to advance the story except when it comes to fighting. You can't very well describe combat using the characters.

Most of my descriptions tend to happen after a person says something.

Example

"As I was explaining Shego this device was pure genius. It is a minor set back that Kim Possible wasn’t hit but of no real concern to my plan." Drakken couldn’t help himself. He allowed a small evil cackle to escape.

"If you say so Dr. D. Remember though Stoppable is a boy. You did take health class right?" With frustration he noted that Shego continued to just file her nails.

"My mother opted me out but that’s beside the point Shego. Of course I’m aware of the fact that the buffoon is a boy but my genius invention will work anyway."

Another example of how I handle description and talking.

The woman continued to poke at her eggs. "Shego!" Drakken shout startled her out of her stupor as she looked up.

For action though I like keeping it description only. Occasional comments maybe but they serve as breaks for the readers. Here's an example of how I handle fights.

The other suit seemed to have a similar idea as both raced toward each other. Instead of pulling up they simply raised their shields in front of themselves and headed in for a collision. It took only a second before both slammed into each other. The metal in both of their shields screamed in protest.

Not allowing the shock of the explosion to slip away Ron righted himself and moved in with a mid-chest slash. It was deftly blocked by the other Gundam who counter attacked with a high head slash. Ron waited to the last second before slamming the arm wide using his shield.

Thrusting forward he attempted to skewer the enemy but only hit empty space as the enemy twisted away. Again their beam sabers hit into each other the light flaring brightly as both sabers attempted to burn through the other one. The suits were now in a struggle to over power each other as the slammed their throttles to full.

On the whole most of my stories have the characters talking to each other. I don't have to tell you what they are doing when you can guess at it from the dialogue. Way I do things at least.

[RavenStar]

There's different ways to approach it. Usually, in, say, action scenes, I prefer to keep the dialogue sparse and describe the action in a fair amount of detail - enough to keep the intensity of the scene, but not bog it down - and in action scenes, I usually let the character's actions speak for their state of mind.

However, there are times when dialogue over details works better. If you do it right, you can have an exchange that pretty much explains flat-out or foreshadows, say, a major plot twist coming up - but with the way you write the dialogue, the words you choose, the words you don't choose - you can make it so the points revealed in said exchange are only picked up on by the most alert of readers, and the rest will realise it if they go back and read the exchange after the plot twist's been revealed.

It's the way you use the dialogue, and the way you use details, that ultimately decides whether one is better than the other. If you want to explain that there's a complex machine descending into the room, you could say either "the machine was extremely complex - wires and tubes and zoob-zooblers everywhere" - or you could go into great detail about the layout of the machine, what tube connects to what other other tube, etc... it all depends on what you feel is best for the current scene you're writing at the time.

[thelastsonof84]

I live to bounce dialogue off of characters (especially when the characters in question are just a hoot to write), though sometimes it does seem to make a few of the conversations drag on far longer than I originally intended. Perhaps I get a little to into it writing conversatoins...

Anyway, it does help to have some detail at least about what the characters are feeling, doing, etc. during any conversation, otherwise the reader is left to assume they're just sitting or standing there, talking calmly.

As far as fight and action sequences go... well, depends on the character. Some are plain ol' silent but others can certainly be a Chatty Cathy left and right even when they should be busy trying to stay alive (Spider-Man, Shego, etc.).

[aridblue]

How... how did you find this? This is a fanfic treasure chest!

[surforst]

aridblue said:

How... how did you find this? This is a fanfic treasure chest!

What?

[taechunsa]

Excellent points!

My only concern is with regard to the OOC speech patterns noted. While I do agree that it is very important to pay attention to the character's 'voice' I do not believe that we should be limited to how they usually speak. For instance, while Ron might not usually speak using big words in high school, in pre-K his speech pattern was more advanced then it should have been. Why? Or more importantly why isn't it now? These are the littel details that if used correctly can take a fanfiction from ho-hum to wow.

I am a big proponent of dialogue with details devulged by their interaction with the characters. I am also a big supporter of the less is more camp. The great thing about literature is that it is a movie for the mind, and there is no need to describe everything. The reader's mind will fill in all of the little details. Thus, my stories lean towards dialogue rich stories with limited narrative description. This is also what I like to read.

One of the biggest mistakes that fanfiction writers make is in trying to port a visual show into a prose format, I was very guilty of this when I started writing.

A fanfiction should not be a screenplay. The visual elements are not as important in prose as they are for visual media thus the writing needs to adjust for this, and many writers fail to do so. They try to describe it as if you were watching it on TV and that seldom works.

[mrpotty]

I almost have to thank this spammer-guy, for digging this old thread out .

(Meanwhile it'S deleted, but a spambotor something replied suddenly in this thread after months)

[aridblue]

surforst said:

aridblue said:

How... how did you find this? This is a fanfic treasure chest!

What?

Sorry, it's just that these are all very good points for any budding fanfic writer (or fiction writer for that matter).

[surforst]

aridblue said:

surforst said:

What?

Sorry, it's just that these are all very good points for any budding fanfic writer (or fiction writer for that matter).

Oh cool. Now I understand ;D

Yeah this discussion has been giving me food for thought about my own stuff. That and forcing me to re-read my stuff. Very unpleasant experince there. Personally I'm still trying to figure out my own style so having the option to steal someone else always works. Just trying to decide who now.