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Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 25, 2008 14:59:01 GMT -5
A few points I would like to make about ships in general : 1. I've seen quality works of art/fiction for several different ships. I do not think you need to support a ship to enjoy quality works supporting the ship. 2. In my experience, very capable fic uthors can make completely unrealistic ships feel realistic while remaining true to the characters. For some, the challenge of presenting an unbelieveable ship as believeable may be the real draw of the ship. 3. Supporting a ship does not mean you would support a ship of similar people in the real world. Just like being a fan of a fictional character does not mean you would be a fan of a similar person in the real world. Think of this: How many of you would be fans of Drakken and Shego if they existed in the "real world"? (Besides Gabby. ) Would you root for people who have tried to take of the world and presumably caused the deaths of thousands of people (or, at the very least, do not appear particularly troubled about possibly causing those deaths?) Generally, "real" people like Drakken and Shego are called terrorists. But they're cartoon characters, and they're fun, and their actions have no consequences on anyone, so we enjoy watching them guiltlessly. So, if we can support characters that we wouldn't support in real life - why not a ship that wouldn't exist in real life? I can understand why many people would prefer to support "realistic" or canon ships, but does a ship have to potentially be capable of existing in the "real world" is order to be valued? 4. As several have pointed out, a ship can be valued for "fanon" value while not being be valued for "canon" purposes. In my opinion, supporting a non-canon ship for the sake of fanon is in no way disrepectful. I can sort of understand, however, why people find it disrespectful to argue that the creaters "messed up" by not making a particular ship canon, or argue that a non-canon ship really IS canon but everyone is too "dumb" to notice. But I don't find it disrespectful to express an interest to have seen a fictional work end differently than it actually did. Are Shakespeare critics being disrespectful towards Shakespeare if they point out what they perceive to be flaws in or errors in judgment? In my opinion, being "disrespectful" would require something like name-calling or other abusive remarks, i.e. "He's an idiot that he didn't end it this way." 1. True. Like I've said earlier in the thread; several times, I've faved pics of ships I don't support simply because I thought they were well drawn/had some interesting features. I must admit I'd hesitate to sit through a whole fic concerning a couple I wasn't interested in, though, even if the writing was good (...but I have done it a few times). Just as I'd hesitate to sit through a fic where the couple was interesting to me, but the writing was bad. I guess I need both. 2. I get that completely. I think I saw some of the Kigoers write something like this last year at RS, and I'm sure I've seen it in other fandoms. Some people deliberately write unusual ships (not sure if this counts for Kigo at this point, though, since it's the second biggest ship; 'unusual' would be more like...um, I dunno, Josh/Drakken? ) because they want something different and/or a challenge. Sometimes, that can be interesting. 3. Oh, absolutely. I'd probably be the first to admit-- and have done so to some of my pals around here-- that I wouldn't like Drakken and Shego at all if they were 'real people'. I mean, seriously-- sure, they're evil, but they're just cute cartoon evil, which doesn't actually have any real consequences, often not even in the cartoon world (for example, we don't see anybody die on KP). If they were real people in the real world, they'd be very different. They wouldn't be cartoonish and cute, they would be dangerous and a real threat. I mean, who would like people whose plan was to take over the word and enslave them? No one, that's who. People would think they were insane. Besides, in the real world, where cartoon laws don't apply (the hero always getting away, for example), they would have already killed Kim years ago-- or they would have been killed by Kim, most likely accidentally, during the explosion of one of their lairs or something. Or, every time they used a doomsday device, especially something like that thing that caused earthquakes in Clothes Minded, people would get killed. So...yeah, I wouldn't like them if they were real. You're got a very good point there, Julie. The last line, though-- well, I can't speak for anybody else, but when I evaluate couples I see in cartoons, I mostly evaluate them on the terms of that universe. Even though I may bring in some more realistic aspects into my stories, I don't think that much about how that couple would be in the "real world". I try to base their interaction and their personalities on what they're like in the cartoon. If I don't ship a couple, it's because to me, I can't see them working in that cartoon world, not in the "real world". But I get your point. Ship and let ship, and I agree whole-heartedly. Also, there's really no reason why people who support canon ships should hate or even feel 'threatened' by non-canon ships. It's not as if people are going to write 'one fic too many' one fateful day, and the amount of fics with non-canon ships is going to magically transform the show. Canon will remain the way it is forever, unless they decide to make a completely unexpected season 5. ;D But I suppose they feel more 'threatened' when it comes to fanon, maybe. I dunno, I do get that to a certain degree since I get exasperated when I want to read D/S and there is no D/S, only Kigo and K/R. Still, Kigo doesn't stop anybody from writing fics. Or doing art. 4. Agreed. Completely agreed. I must say that so far, with a few exceptions, I'm impressed about how nice and civil and even interesting this thread has been so far, which is why I suppose I keep posting here and bothering everybody. Good job, people.
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Post by rd on Mar 25, 2008 16:19:23 GMT -5
Never shipped, never will.
I guess that leaves me out of the conversation...
Ah, well.
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Post by DP on Mar 25, 2008 18:30:02 GMT -5
Think of this: How many of you would be fans of Drakken and Shego if they existed in the "real world"? (Besides Gabby. ) LOVE YOU! Yes, true. Like Artfan said, it's all about creativity, and going above and beyond the show! I mean, who would like people whose plan was to take over the word and enslave them? No one, that's who. People would think they were insane. Oh, I know I'm insane. Thank you! ;D
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Post by Ninnik Nishukan on Mar 25, 2008 18:46:05 GMT -5
I mean, who would like people whose plan was to take over the word and enslave them? No one, that's who. People would think they were insane. Oh, I know I'm insane. Thank you! ;D Um, I meant that people would think that Drakken and Shego were insane. Literally. As in not in a good way.
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Post by DP on Mar 25, 2008 18:49:04 GMT -5
Oh, I know I'm insane. Thank you! ;D Um, I meant that people would think that Drakken and Shego were insane. Literally. As in not in a good way. Awwww doodles.
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Post by Ot@ru on Mar 25, 2008 20:32:28 GMT -5
Never shipped, never will. I guess that leaves me out of the conversation... Ah, well. So far I only like K/R...Kigo I do not...
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Post by yvj on Mar 25, 2008 21:19:07 GMT -5
Okay, so there you go.... Why the hate? Because to some extremists, it tampers with the fundamental concept of K/R. I didn't see one post from anyone else that "hates" Kigo. Its strictly the hardcore K/R fandom. Hmmm, I wonder if any D/Sers hate Kigo. I don't think I know any. Sorta dislike or be kind of annoyed by it at times, yeah, but I don't think I know any D/Sers that actually HATE Kigo. I wonder why that is? I mean, technically, D/Sers "should" have just as much "reason" to hate Kigo as K/Rers, at least in that it "breaks up their couple". I must admit that I was kind of mystified, when I first began exploring the KP fandom, by the fact that D/S was not the second most popular couple, after K/R, but the third after Kigo. I guess with how the show is, I more or less just assumed that D/S would be more popular, but sadly (for me and my friends, at least), it's not. When I got an email about the Fannie Awards, I wondered why in the world I even got that email, since the Fannie Awards doesn't even have a category for D/S, as far as I could see (please correct me if I'm wrong). It did, however, have a category for Kigo. At the time, this seemed slightly unfair, but I wasn't going to complain because I figured this probably had to do with the preferences of the person/people who made the awards. I have ceased to look for logic in fandoms a long time ago. People in fandoms do whatever they want, and a lot of things in fandoms stray far away from the actual shows/movies/comics/books. And that's okay. It will always be like that. People take the thing they like and explore it however they want, and if somebody comes up with an interesting idea, inspired by something on the show/in the book/comics/series, even if it has little to no root in canon, people may like it, and it may become immensely popular. This isn't just ships. It can be AU universes, it can be OCs, whatever. Anyway, yeah, despite the fact that technically, D/Sers "should have reason to", I wonder why I very seldom (or never, really) meet a D/Ser who HATEhatehates Kigo. Well, here's one hypothesis: D/Sers, as far as I've understood it, have never really seemed to be as protective of canon as some extreme K/Rers. This might be because before Graduation, most of us were under the impression that we were maybe shipping a somewhat (we hoped it would be canon before the end of the show) "non-canon" couple. We saw them as a potential couple, but we didn't know if they'd be one or not. *shrugs* I've said it before the D/S shippers (at least the ones around here) = nothing but class. Those are tiny fringes. They don't dominate the web like Kigo. And as for R/Y, at least it has a canon basis to it. I consider ships like that to be semi-canon. When it's hinted at, but never really takes off, I consider it fair game, so long as it doesn't violate any big character traits without explanation, I.E., making a canonically straight character inexplicably gay/lesbian, making Ron be a jerk to Kim when they break up, Ron doing it without doubts, etc. And no, I'm not homophobic. I'm fine with them. So long as they keep away from my straight characters. If you want to do an issue like that, do it tastefully and seriously, the way the writers at MTV Animation handled it in the uncensored cut of Daria: Is it Fall Yet?. As a recap, there a lesbian who likes her makes Jane question her own sexuality.It's fine to have them question themselves, but don't do it just for the "hawt lezbianz!!!!!1111" factor or in a way that compromises a character's canonical status. That's all I have to say here. And if you want to yell, fine. If you want to insult me, fire away. I will not be moved. This is my stance. Call it wrong, call it right, it's what I think. I just had to say something to that. Who's yelling? (aside from slick, but I imagine he's always yelling ) I agree wholeheartedly, actually. In fact I imagine most people here would agree with your post at least somewhat, so feel free to put the guns away, kay? I am one of those people who agree with Robbbie somewhat. But what's this about putting guns away? Hey now, Second Amendment rights carry over to the net as well
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Post by Alexlayer on Mar 25, 2008 22:46:20 GMT -5
I’m sad to see that this thread might be in danger of becoming a ranting one, which I really don’t want to happen. Nothing of my last post was meant to provoke anybody. I reiterate, all I want is for us to reach an understanding, and I feel like I’m getting a bit of it. Like with Danman, with whom now I share a new found respect. (Heck, I also want meatier Kim centric stories! Regardless of whomever she’s dating) But moving on with this now: I already debated the perspectives and reasons on homophobia (or just disapproval of homosexuality), not-seeing-KiGo-happening, and gave my humble commiseration in regards of the annoyance caused by the big amount of KiGo material out there. So I won’t middle on that anymore. However, two new Reason have been stated: Canon and the VIPs. Ain’t these delicate themes? Anyway, serious now. Canon is canon. K/R is canon and I’m not here to deny that. Fanon is fanon. And KiGo, Kim/Bonnie, Ron/Yori and all that are part of fanon, ALONG with the canon couples, as there’s lot of K/R and D/S material in fanon too. So, a few ships have the ‘privilege’ of being in both sides, while most of them are fanon-only and will hardly ever be more than that. But that, and the fact that the canon couples are in animation while the rest are in just writing and drawing, plus the fact that Fanon always depends on Canon at some point, are the only advantages Canon has over Fanon. In other words, that’s the only way in which Canon is superior to Fanon. Like Nabusan said. Fanon is valid and worth itself. And as long as one has vivid imagination, visualization and the desire to read (or watch pics), Fanon can be enjoyed as much, if not even more, than Canon. I know at least I have, and firmly believe that as long as the characters are kept in-character and the relationship is handled correctly, any pairing is possible and stories can be greatly interesting. Besides, like ArtFan pointed out: Would there really be a sense of Fanfiction if the only thing done with it would be to just add more of the same of Canon? I doubt it could hardly be good for either Fanon or Canon, as both would get extremely repetitive and boring rather quickly. And now, where the issue of Canon and the VIPs mix: Disrespect? There are two sides on this. The “Disrespecter” (Fans who write and draw alternative pairings) and the “Disrespected” (The VIPs, in this case). Tittles are given on supposedly speaking, of course, because I hardly believe they can possibly fit. Speaking about the fans, I’m firmly believe that none of my partners at the KP Slash Haven could have ever wished to offend Mark, Bob or Steve by writing or anyone with their writing or drawings. Neither would any fan of the series in my opinion. I know some people haven’t exactly been the nicest, either. Like I said, we’re not perfect. But what I mean here is that there has never been any intention of offending anyone through fan work. And from the VIPs' perspective, I’ve heard lots of things said by then, but if there’s something I’ve never heard was that they felt offended by KiGo Fanfiction or any other fanwork out there. If anything, the last chat I had with them led me to believe they just preferred to leave Fanfiction aside and not care about it. In short, I seriously think any idea of anyone trying to disrespect anyone through shipping, writing or drawing something is ridiculous. I don’t get how people could say I could be possibly disrespecting someone by supporting KiGo, let alone intent to. Still and just about the VIPs now. But before anything, I’ll clarify I’ll not mess with the past thread that was brought up and the quote about Steve. Like NewSkool said, that thread was focused on the reaction D/S got and, while I take my part of the blame in what happened back then, it hardly has to do with anything that’s being discussed here. I got a couple of revelations to do here, and that’s because I think that the story about the relationship between KiGo Shippers and the VIPs has been messed up and misunderstood. I know what Yvs refers to with KiGo Shippers downplaying the show itself and being here only for the KiGo Fandom. Yet, I dare say this response given by some KiGo shippers was actually the result of the confrontation between the KiGo Shippers and the Anti-KiGo fans. This will most probably sound accusing, but here goes anyway. The thing is that the KiGo Shippers have, numerous times, received accusing of their ship being hopelessly non-canonical and that all subtext was inexistent and that K/R was canon and that it would always stay that way and all that. You guys know what you mean. Now, with all those accusation, I can totally understand why someone would yell “Shut up! We don’t care about what’s canon or the show so stop bothering us!!” just to be left in peace. But the truth is different, and you know this when you've been in both sides of the whole story. We KiGo fans do like the show. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be watching it. And we do care about Canon and the VIPs’ words (Think about it, if we didn’t care about that, there would have been no KiGo Shipper in the Anti-D/S ranting from back then). And when we are searching subtext, we’re searching for gifts from the VIPs for us. Because we like to believe that the VIPs do keep us in their minds too, just like the K/R & D/S Shippers. In the past, when Dracko invited the KP Slash Haven to participate on the then upcoming VIP chat, we took our chance to ask the VIPs what they thought about our favourite pairing. However, we received no answer, neither yes nor no, nor approval neither disapproval; no answer at all. So everything stayed the same, and while it bugged us not getting any answer, we didn’t have any reason to believe the subtext wasn’t real either. Kim’s line of “And boys, sometimes…”, the mud-fight from “Mad Dogs and Aliens” and Shego saving Kim in the same episode, let alone the entire episode “Stop Team Go” and good part of “Go Team Go”. They don’t necessarily mean anything, but they do give us with what to work for the sake of our pairing. For that, we ARE grateful. I’d just wish to know if we’re thanking something that was intentional or that just happened by chance. However, I’ve grown to think that the VIPs might have a good reason for not giving us a straight answer, and decided to just leave without it. It would be nice to have it, but I don’t need it to enjoy KiGo, anyway. I may not be completely right in a couple of point about this story, but I think this how things really happened. Now, however, things are just too screwed up. There’s too much dark history between the KiGo Fandom and the Anti-KiGo Fandom of this forum, and far more confrontations than what anyone could care to count. And because of that, the other KiGo shippers who used to frequent this place just gave up on it. Apparently, I’m the only one who stills frequent both KP Slash Haven and RonStoppable.net. The fights have stopped, but that’s just because the fans ain’t clashing anymore around here. Yet I’ve seen there are still some confrontations in the forums of FF.net. Overall, it’s really sad. Sometimes I see a thread in one forum and can’t help but to wonder what would the guys from another forum would respond to it. But I can’t help but to feel worried about the antagonism we always get from the Hardcore K/R Fandom. I’m glad they can enjoy their favourite pairing so much, but at the same time, I feel sorry, because for the replies I've got in this thread, it seems like K/R is really all that they can appreciate of the show. But please, nobody takes offence from this. It’s just the way I can’t help but to feel and I don’t want anyone to take it harsh. The one real victory for me to achieve would be to unite the fandom, but that might probably be hopeless dream. Still, doesn’t mean I can’t try. Like I said before, I was worried when I first made this thread, but I’m really glad I made it. Now I feel closer to this side of the fandom than I ever had. One last thing I wanted to say, and it’s about the KiGo Fandom, and it’s that the fandom’s basis is definitely not “hawt lezbianz!!!111”, and I’m sure the KiGo pairing wouldn’t be even half as popular if this was the reason. Almost every KiGo shipper I know has worthy reasons to love the pairing. I just wanted everyone to know that and not get a wrong impression of the KiGo Fandom. Well, I think I said everything I had to say. Now I can only hope this thread follows a peaceful flow.
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Post by eclogite on Mar 25, 2008 23:07:42 GMT -5
One point of discussion that has been missed is the statement in one of the VIP chats that the characters 'belong to the fans now" or words to that effect somewhat blurs the distinction between fanon and canon (or cannon, as some prefer). Strikes me that this is pretty much tacit approval from the writers for the fans to take the story where they might from now on. Sounds like a well crafted story with reasonable internal logic wins the day.
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Post by Mickey on Mar 25, 2008 23:23:16 GMT -5
Kim’s line of “And boys, sometimes…”, the mud-fight from “Mad Dogs and Aliens” and Shego saving Kim in the same episode, let alone the entire episode “Stop Team Go” and good part of “Go Team Go”. They don’t necessarily mean anything, but they do give us with what to work for the sake of our pairing. I have to ask, Alex, because I have been a bit confused by this, but how is Stop Team Go helpful to KiGo? Outside of the picture burning at the end, I do not see what else there is to use.
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Post by yvj on Mar 25, 2008 23:55:44 GMT -5
Let me say the following is not intended with any malice at all Speaking about the fans, I’m firmly believe that none of my partners at the KP Slash Haven could have ever wished to offend Mark, Bob or Steve by writing or anyone with their writing or drawings. Neither would any fan of the series in my opinion. You've obviously never engaged in battle with Beeftony. I've had the honor of doing so. Still and just about the VIPs now. But before anything, I’ll clarify I’ll not mess with the past thread that was brought up and the quote about Steve. Like NewSkool said, that thread was focused on the reaction D/S got and, while I take my part of the blame in what happened back then, it hardly has to do with anything that’s being discussed here. Here's the thing it kind of does. At the time you and Tantrix (sp?) were two of the bigger Kigo shippers here. Then the incident happens. If I recall correctly and correct me if I'm wrong but then Beeftony goes off; plus Wcreaf appeared out of nowhere to add a few bits of negativity in some other thread. I got a couple of revelations to do here, and that’s because I think that the story about the relationship between KiGo Shippers and the VIPs has been messed up and misunderstood. I know what Yvs refers to with KiGo Shippers downplaying the show itself and being here only for the KiGo Fandom. Yet, I dare say this response given by some KiGo shippers was actually the result of the confrontation between the KiGo Shippers and the Anti-KiGo fans. Actually the uproar over D/S came mostly from Tantrix going nuts and then you and Beeftony added to the negative mix THEN those such as myself made the situation worse by attacking Kigo. This will most probably sound accusing, but here goes anyway. The thing is that the KiGo Shippers have, numerous times, received accusing of their ship being hopelessly non-canonical and that all subtext was inexistent and that K/R was canon and that it would always stay that way and all that. Kigo authors and fans say they write/Ship kigo because of the Challenge. There is a reason it is a challenge for the authors to overcome because it very, very non-canonical. Let's be real here for a moment! I've seen respected Kigo authors like Allaine and Starving Lunatic I believe on occasion have stated there is no subtext in the show in the show. Saying it's non canonical is not an incorrect statement. It is what it is. I can't concede to something I believe is so false. You guys know what you mean. Now, with all those accusation, I can totally understand why someone would yell “Shut up! We don’t care about what’s canon or the show so stop bothering us!!” just to be left in peace. I'll concede that this may happen. But I've see blatant "I don't care about canon" as well But the truth is different, and you know this when you've been in both sides of the whole story. We KiGo fans do like the show. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be watching it. And we do care about Canon and the VIPs’ words (Think about it, if we didn’t care about that, there would have been no KiGo Shipper in the Anti-D/S ranting from back then). And when we are searching subtext, we’re searching for gifts from the VIPs for us. Because we like to believe that the VIPs do keep us in their minds too, just like the K/R & D/S Shippers. In the past, when Dracko invited the KP Slash Haven to participate on the then upcoming VIP chat, we took our chance to ask the VIPs what they thought about our favourite pairing. However, we received no answer, neither yes nor no, nor approval neither disapproval; no answer at all. So everything stayed the same, and while it bugged us not getting any answer, we didn’t have any reason to believe the subtext wasn’t real either. I believe one of the writers stated that anything between Shego and Kim was shown on screen. If you want to see subtext you will see subtext. Kim’s line of “And boys, sometimes…”, the mud-fight from “Mad Dogs and Aliens” and Shego saving Kim in the same episode, let alone the entire episode “Stop Team Go” and good part of “Go Team Go”. They don’t necessarily mean anything, but they do give us with what to work for the sake of our pairing. That is much more agreeable that "Omg Shego pulled the blender out after only 3.5 seconds that means she never wanted to kill Kim. That's a fact!" Or the that is the "sometimes" line. I know some see the ultra hardcore K/R folk as crazy but I get the same "crazy" vibe from the definite "subtext" folk I may not be completely right in a couple of point about this story, but I think this how things really happened. Now, however, things are just too screwed up. There’s too much dark history between the KiGo Fandom and the Anti-KiGo Fandom of this forum, and far more confrontations than what anyone could care to count. And because of that, the other KiGo shippers who used to frequent this place just gave up on it. Apparently, I’m the only one who stills frequent both KP Slash Haven and RonStoppable.net. The fights have stopped, but that’s just because the fans ain’t clashing anymore around here. Yet I’ve seen there are still some confrontations in the forums of FF.net. Overall, it’s really sad. Sometimes I see a thread in one forum and can’t help but to wonder what would the guys from another forum would respond to it. But I can’t help but to feel worried about the antagonism we always get from the Hardcore K/R Fandom. I’m glad they can enjoy their favorite pairing so much, but at the same time, I feel sorry, because for the replies I've got in this thread, it seems like K/R is really all that they can appreciate of the show. But please, nobody takes offence from this. It’s just the way I can’t help but to feel and I don’t want anyone to take it harsh. You can say the same about the people who watch only for the idea of Kigo. There are people like that on both sides, I've heard people say they've skipped season 4 all together. Or they only watch episodes with Shego in it. Ok let's not act like Kigo shippers play nice as well. There are dedicated battle scarred veterans on both side who are more than willing to take the other pairing down a peg. And does "I prefer they break up (referring to K/R) ring a bell? The one real victory for me to achieve would be to unite the fandom, but that might probably be hopeless dream. Still, doesn’t mean I can’t try. Like I said before, I was worried when I first made this thread, but I’m really glad I made it. Now I feel closer to this side of the fandom than I ever had. I think these extremists on both would not allow this happen. And plus as stated some people don't like Kigo for personal reason. It's a good dream however. It'd be nice to to have peace
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 26, 2008 0:03:04 GMT -5
I believe one of the writers stated that anything between Shego and Kim was shown on screen. The wonderfull Swenlin. Speaking of whom I wonder if he's written any episodes for any other cartoons recently. I need to go check his site.
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Post by nabusan on Mar 26, 2008 5:58:22 GMT -5
Gah, too many megaposts Anywho, 'peace' is achieveable - atleast on this forum, 'cause the extremist Kigo shippers have left, I believe. Going on in a continuous metaphorical war is going to be pretty never-ending. And we don't want the next generation of KP fans to come into this, do we? So far as I know, all the other ships ARE united - just need to get K/R and Kigo to shake hands. Just...erase the past history, and start over. I'm sure there's bad blood and experiences, but don't bring it to the forum. Just, leave it at the door when you sign on.
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Post by NewSkool101 on Mar 26, 2008 6:24:32 GMT -5
Kim’s line of “And boys, sometimes…”, the mud-fight from “Mad Dogs and Aliens” and Shego saving Kim in the same episode, let alone the entire episode “Stop Team Go” and good part of “Go Team Go”. They don’t necessarily mean anything, but they do give us with what to work for the sake of our pairing. I have to ask, Alex, because I have been a bit confused by this, but how is Stop Team Go helpful to KiGo? Outside of the picture burning at the end, I do not see what else there is to use. It's not so much what there is to 'use' (at least, not that I think) as it is the fact that it shows canon Kim and canon Shego don't have to "hate" each other to the extent that K/R shippers would argue. It also opens up the distinct possibility of Kim and Shego eventually becoming "friends", which I know is a step in the right direction in the eyes of Kigo shippers.
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 26, 2008 7:38:36 GMT -5
as it is the fact that it shows canon Kim and canon Shego don't have to "hate" each other to the extent that K/R shippers would argue. I'll stick with what was said in So The Drama. Kim: You know what I really hate? Shego: That your date melted? Kim: Nah. . . you. (Kim kicks Shego off the roof)
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Post by Mickey on Mar 26, 2008 7:49:03 GMT -5
I have to ask, Alex, because I have been a bit confused by this, but how is Stop Team Go helpful to KiGo? Outside of the picture burning at the end, I do not see what else there is to use. It's not so much what there is to 'use' (at least, not that I think) as it is the fact that it shows canon Kim and canon Shego don't have to "hate" each other to the extent that K/R shippers would argue. It also opens up the distinct possibility of Kim and Shego eventually becoming "friends", which I know is a step in the right direction in the eyes of Kigo shippers. But that was not the real Shego. That was an altered state of mind Shego.
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Post by nabusan on Mar 26, 2008 8:04:29 GMT -5
That's when the photograph thing at the end comes in And hey, they eventually sorta became friends in Graduation - so long as she keeps her nose clean.
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Post by dracko19 on Mar 26, 2008 8:33:29 GMT -5
as it is the fact that it shows canon Kim and canon Shego don't have to "hate" each other to the extent that K/R shippers would argue. I'll stick with what was said in So The Drama. Kim: You know what I really hate? Shego: That your date melted? Kim: Nah. . . you. (Kim kicks Shego off the roof)And right here is where the subtext vs. canon debate takes off.... Slick, just stay out of this thread like you said you were going to. We know how you feel about it. You don't need to start a war. As for the rest...lets stay on topic here. I see the conversation straying into the whole "at least acknowledge its possible" campaign and that isn't the topic here.
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Post by KillerBebe Obeys Zita on Mar 26, 2008 9:54:49 GMT -5
I’m late as always to the dance, but for my two cents on this. I do not like KiGo in fanfic unless it’s an AU were Kim or Shego are not so much the characters we know. My reasons are pretty much what has been said here, but follow as…
1) Kim and Shego are opposite sides of the same coin (Ying / Yang) day and night and if they’re to meet it is only at twilight.
2) I can not see them in bed with Kim kissing her while saying “Shego that was bad of you trying to kidnap prince Wally” or Shego saying hey princess don’t be in London tomorrow at noon while I’m stealing the crown jewels (wink wink, nudge nudge)
3) The only way I can see it is if Kim has been captured and Shego has taken advantage of the situation, and this I can not condone because it’s called rape and I can not see even Shego going this far.. Now to say that they hate each other is harsh (STD not included, she was pi**ed at finding out that her boyfriend was a syntodrone) I would say more of a dislike for each other and there is respect for their abilities. They have also put their differences aside to work for a common good i.e. Team Go, Mad dogs and Aliens and graduation.
As someone said no one would like Drakken and Shego in the real world, I have always seen Shego as someone who without care would reach into your chest an pull your heart out then show it to you before you died. Thankfully it is a Disney show and not hardcore Japanese anime and we do not have to see this possibility.
To answer a question I like and ship Kim / Josh and you know what’s great about it? It’s canon the same as Kim / Eric.
(note) none of this includes our screen cap threads
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Post by slicknickshady on Mar 26, 2008 10:07:33 GMT -5
That was an altered state of mind Shego. That's a good way of putting it.
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