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Post by imipak on Jun 21, 2010 2:35:38 GMT -5
it had to happen sometime, the same thing is going to happen to hannah montana in a couple years. everything must run its course. That says what, but it doesn't say why. Beowulf is 1,500 years old and still going strong.
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Post by Zephyr on Jun 21, 2010 7:39:55 GMT -5
it had to happen sometime, the same thing is going to happen to hannah montana in a couple years. everything must run its course. That says what, but it doesn't say why. Beowulf is 1,500 years old and still going strong. Beowulf is great tale from a time when people passed legend on from generation to generation. Hannah Montana is a throw away TV sitcom. Comparing the two is like comparing a 1989 Dodge Dynasty to a 1966 Ford Mustang.
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Post by imipak on Jun 21, 2010 20:40:32 GMT -5
That says what, but it doesn't say why. Beowulf is 1,500 years old and still going strong. Beowulf is great tale from a time when people passed legend on from generation to generation. Hannah Montana is a throw away TV sitcom. Comparing the two is like comparing a 1989 Dodge Dynasty to a 1966 Ford Mustang. Why? Just because the Hannah Montana scriptwriters were cheap and brain-dead doesn't mean that Hannah Montana's scriptwriters HAD to be cheap and brain-dead. Disney was quite capable of hiring writing talent of epic quality. They chose not to. The fact that Roman joke books (and there are a few that survive) look virtually the same as modern joke books show that even comedy can be written to an epic standard. This is my one complaint across all media - be it novels, TV, radio, the movies, whatever: no matter how much money is blown on the rest of the production, the story itself is often the part that gets neglected. Ok, sure, you can't have every episode of every TV show of Beowulf calibre, but at the moment, it seems like they're seen as filler material between the ads.
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Post by Zephyr on Jun 21, 2010 23:03:15 GMT -5
Beowulf is great tale from a time when people passed legend on from generation to generation. Hannah Montana is a throw away TV sitcom. Comparing the two is like comparing a 1989 Dodge Dynasty to a 1966 Ford Mustang. Why? Just because the Hannah Montana scriptwriters were cheap and brain-dead doesn't mean that Hannah Montana's scriptwriters HAD to be cheap and brain-dead. Disney was quite capable of hiring writing talent of epic quality. They chose not to. The fact that Roman joke books (and there are a few that survive) look virtually the same as modern joke books show that even comedy can be written to an epic standard. This is my one complaint across all media - be it novels, TV, radio, the movies, whatever: no matter how much money is blown on the rest of the production, the story itself is often the part that gets neglected. Ok, sure, you can't have every episode of every TV show of Beowulf calibre, but at the moment, it seems like they're seen as filler material between the ads. And now you're arguing a point I wasn't making on top of making bogus comparisons... Bravo.
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Post by imipak on Jun 22, 2010 1:35:25 GMT -5
And now you're arguing a point I wasn't making on top of making bogus comparisons... Bravo. Pretend, for a moment, that you need to include these things called explanations. Explain WHY it is necessary for something to run its course, when clearly there are things which do not AND when clearly those things which do run their course do so because there was no effort put into the craft. All you have to do is give me one good, solid, rational reason why. A lack of effort at any given time is not a good, solid, rational reason because it is always possible to put that effort in. Because that is how it is done is not a good, solid, rational reason because there is nothing to stop you from doing things differently. I want a reason that will stand up all on its own, for which not one counter-example exists. If there is such a compelling reason why stories must end, you should have no difficulty meeting such a simple requirement. If you cannot give me a reason why, then might I suggest it is because no such reason exists? That what you are looking at is not a rational decision but merely a choice on when to stop? Sure, you don't have to explain yourself. But, then, you don't have to see everything in an adversarial light, or the potential enjoyment of one group of KP fans as somehow hostile. You don't even have to sneer and condemn those who hold a different view from your own. (And I don't give a darn who says otherwise, your attitude is one of an obnoxious, self-righteous git.)
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 22, 2010 12:40:52 GMT -5
(And I don't give a darn who says otherwise, your attitude is one of an obnoxious, self-righteous git.) Could not the same be said of yourself?
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Post by imipak on Jun 22, 2010 14:30:44 GMT -5
(And I don't give a darn who says otherwise, your attitude is one of an obnoxious, self-righteous git.) Could not the same be said of yourself? No, because I do not claim to be right and actively allow for the possibility of being wrong. It is impossible to be self-righteously open to honest debate. What I do claim is that honest debate CANNOT consist of mockery, it CANNOT consist on collective attacks on people who happen to hold a different opinion, and it absolutely CANNOT mis-represent personal opinion as absolute fact. But let's make absolutely sure of this. Let's examine my posts here, prior to these inflamatory threads: ways to encourage Disney to loosen up on KP merchandise, KP fan foods, the relationship between some of the villains in KP and other series, y'know, typical fan chatter but usually with some sort of intellectual twist. Compare this with people who shall remain nameless who seem happy to start threads on why KP is rubbish/a bad role model/unoriginal/pathetic/stupid. Stuff that has no merit in fandom or indeed anything else outside of a kindergarten playground. Is it fair, in my books, to discuss the merits of KP? Sure! But not by slamming other people. I don't mind discussing the relative pros and cons of KP as a role-model, but not when under fire, and not from a starting point that of course there are no pros. If you =actually= wanted to discuss whether KP should be brought back, you'd be arguing your case and not dissing other people's. You've offered no answers to my questions, you've offered no alternative ideas, you've offered bugger all but insults. Yes, that's going to piss me off. I've been offering constructive posts and ideas, you've offered nothing but destruction and decay. You want to know why this board is virtually dead? It ain't because there's a lack of interest, it's because nobody likes hanging around an donut hole like yourself. You won't even answer the very simple question in my last post. Why? Because you're not interested in debate, you're not interested in conversation, you're only interested in being an obnoxious git. I'm still here because I'm stubborn, but I'm also not a fool. If you won't and can't enter honest discussion, if you won't and can't accept that you're not a god, if you won't and can't accept that you can be wrong on just about anything (and that you cannot know whether you are wrong or not without discussion), then it serves no useful purpose to continue this. Discussion CAN involve pointing out the holes in the other person's argument (and your argument has plenty of holes). But the focus must be on the holes, not the person, and there must be a willingness on both sides to see if the hole really exists and whether or not it can be fixed. Show me your willingness to examine anything. Show me that you have any real interest in anything other than having things your way. Show me you are capable of free and open discussion. I don't think you are, I don't think you'll even attempt to show it. Prove me wrong.
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 22, 2010 15:53:32 GMT -5
If there is one thing I enjoy doing in my off time between video games, work, and school, it's disecting pitiful posts like yours. Could not the same be said of yourself? No, because I do not claim to be right and actively allow for the possibility of being wrong. It is impossible to be self-righteously open to honest debate. You don't claim to be right? But my dear imipak, were you not the one who boasted about you own infallibility? ...So, yes, I am infallible, for the only way to fail is to think nothing, do nothing, grow nothing, say nothing, be nothing. The moment you are anything but nothing, you are perfect. But, as stated, that is merely my perspective. You can decide you are wrong more often than that if you like. It's your freedom. If that doesn't reek of being of being overly self righteous, I don't know what does. What I do claim is that honest debate CANNOT consist of mockery, it CANNOT consist on collective attacks on people who happen to hold a different opinion, and it absolutely CANNOT mis-represent personal opinion as absolute fact. If you are talking about the 'Maybe Kim Possible Wasn't that Great' I believe that we've already established that the author's intent wasn't to ridicule, just to criticize. You don't seem to be able to handle criticism very well. But let's make absolutely sure of this. Let's examine my posts here, prior to these inflamatory threads: ways to encourage Disney to loosen up on KP merchandise, KP fan foods, the relationship between some of the villains in KP and other series, y'know, typical fan chatter but usually with some sort of intellectual twist. And then you began raving about your petty little persecution complex. ...I am not alone in this, I am merely very vocal. Having spent most of my life feeling bloody miserable for merely having the audacity to enjoy things, I'm at the point where I want to feel that there's at least SOME group that actually not only claims to enjoy the same thing but actually does... You then go on to make arrogant, self-agrandizing boasts: You work on getting the bank to agree to give me the loan needed, and I'll buy Kim Possible... and I'll show you what really IS possible. If Arthur Ransome can turn a book about how to raise sails and tie knots (with a few characters thrown in) into a children's classic series that has lasted 80 years and been made into 5 movies, I can darn well turn KP into something that would out-perform all other animated series yet produced, combined. Why? Because I understand just enough of how the sheer genius of people like Arthur Ransome, Helen Cresswell, John Christopher, and the like, could produce classics that people remember to be able to see whether that strand of genius exists elsewhere. I can say nothing of any other kind of genius, so can say nothing about series that do not use the technique I happen to like. And you don't deny your own arrogance, rather you revel in it: Given the choice of arrogance and stupidity, let me be arrogant. Besides, don't blame me. You pushed so I shoved. Did I happen to forget to mention than pushing me is a Bad Idea? Oh waaaaah. Maybe you will cut out the kindergarden crap, then, and stick to civilized discourse. Compare this with people who shall remain nameless who seem happy to start threads on why KP is rubbish/a bad role model/unoriginal/pathetic/stupid. Stuff that has no merit in fandom or indeed anything else outside of a kindergarten playground. Yeah, because discussing Kim's validity as a role model for little girls is such a childish and unrelated topic. What I mean to say is, do you really think that calling into question what Kim means from a feminist perspective has no merit in Kim Possible Fandom? What is a valid topic for discussion than? Your own validity as a human being? Is it fair, in my books, to discuss the merits of KP? Sure! But not by slamming other people. I don't mind discussing the relative pros and cons of KP as a role-model, but not when under fire, and not from a starting point that of course there are no pros. Who the hell started attacking you? Was it the blogger who's not even a member here? Was it me after I noted your arrogance? Do you even know? Or do you even care? Is this all just another chance for you to play the victim and get that attention that you need so badly? This wasn't about you at all until you made it about you. Man up and accept the fact that you are the reason you've 'come under fire' as you put it. And a starting point that offers no pros? Why should the opposition argument make your argument for you? Where do you get this sense of entitlement? If you =actually= wanted to discuss whether KP should be brought back, you'd be arguing your case and not dissing other people's. You've offered no answers to my questions, you've offered no alternative ideas, you've offered bugger all but insults. Tsk, tsk, tsk. You're not thinking clearly today. You seem to be off your game, forget your bipolar meds again? Incidentally, I have offered alternatives in the past. Here I beg to differ. I'm an outsider in 99.99% of all life because I believe in such things as fandom. If I am then an outsider of fandom because the fans themselves do not believe in fandom, where the hell am I supposed to belong? Who said we didn't believe in fandom? I just don't think Kim Possible needs a season 5, and the annoying way the FFF carries on it's business really doesn't sit well with me. They have no strategy, no cohesion, no plan other than just spamming the same post cards and e-mails every month asking for whatever. I honestly don't even know if they know what they want now. Whether they're trying to get a season five, a DVD boxset release, more air time, or theatrical KP movies, they seem to be asking for everything all at once if the posts they make are anything to go by. And that just won't work. Not only at this point is a fifth season highly unlikely (not to mention un-needed) but all they're doing is annoying the corporate entity that owns Kim Possible. I don't understand why they don't just write up a petition for DVD Boxsets, set a goal for one million signatures (e-handles forbidden, of course) and then send it to Disney once they have the one million signatures needed. It's really simple.Yes, that's going to piss me off. I (don't) CARE! I've been offering constructive posts and ideas, you've offered nothing but destruction and decay. You want to know why this board is virtually dead? It ain't because there's a lack of interest, it's because nobody likes hanging around an donut hole like yourself. I've already proven that to be untrue, would you not agree? You won't even answer the very simple question in my last post. Why? Because you're not interested in debate, you're not interested in conversation, you're only interested in being an obnoxious git. I won't answer because the question was not directed toward me. I cannot give you an answer if I do not know it myself. I'm still here because I'm stubborn, but I'm also not a fool. If you won't and can't enter honest discussion, if you won't and can't accept that you're not a god, if you won't and can't accept that you can be wrong on just about anything (and that you cannot know whether you are wrong or not without discussion), then it serves no useful purpose to continue this. Funny, all things considered. I never made the claim to delusions of godhood. You however did claim infalibility, which while I admit is not the same thing, is pretty high up there. Discussion CAN involve pointing out the holes in the other person's argument (and your argument has plenty of holes). But the focus must be on the holes, not the person, and there must be a willingness on both sides to see if the hole really exists and whether or not it can be fixed. I agree, you need to stop making this about you. You're only making yourself look foolish. Show me your willingness to examine anything. I examined your arguments pretty thourghly, I believe. Show me that you have any real interest in anything other than having things your way. Show me that I have interest in only having things my way. The burden of proof rests with the accuser, do you not agree? Show me you are capable of free and open discussion. I don't think you are, I don't think you'll even attempt to show it. Prove me wrong. Show me you are capable of free and open discussion , without somehow turning it around to you. I don't think you are, I don't think you'll even attempt to show it. I know you can't Prove me wrong.
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Post by Zephyr on Jun 22, 2010 23:33:47 GMT -5
I want to thank you for responding to him, Nightspade. After 16 hours of work, I really don't feel the want or the need to sift through the run-ons and grammatical errors of his posts. So thank you!
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 23, 2010 2:04:28 GMT -5
I want to thank you for responding to him, Nightspade. After 16 hours of work, I really don't feel the want or the need to sift through the run-ons and grammatical errors of his posts. So thank you! np man, np. I enjoy what I do.
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Post by codenamehunterwolf on Jun 23, 2010 18:32:10 GMT -5
Show me your willingness to examine anything. Show me that you have any real interest in anything other than having things your way. Show me you are capable of free and open discussion. I don't think you are, I don't think you'll even attempt to show it. Prove me wrong. Thing is, he can't. Nightspade is nothing but an overgrown toddler, an obsessed fanatic and a troll stalker who hypocritically whinges and moans about the fandom. I suggest you have nothing to do with such a toxic individual, nothing at all.
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Post by Zephyr on Jun 23, 2010 21:42:12 GMT -5
Show me your willingness to examine anything. Show me that you have any real interest in anything other than having things your way. Show me you are capable of free and open discussion. I don't think you are, I don't think you'll even attempt to show it. Prove me wrong. Thing is, he can't. Nightspade is nothing but an overgrown toddler, an obsessed fanatic and a troll stalker who hypocritically whinges and moans about the fandom. I suggest you have nothing to do with such a toxic individual, nothing at all. Sounds like a very accurate description of the FFF'ers.
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Post by manofevil on Jun 23, 2010 23:18:12 GMT -5
Do you guys have a single argument to make that can't be boiled down to "I know you are but what am I?"
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 24, 2010 9:16:10 GMT -5
Do you guys have a single argument to make that can't be boiled down to "I know you are but what am I?" Probably not, but that's part of our charm. Don't fudge it up.
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Post by Zephyr on Jun 24, 2010 20:50:54 GMT -5
Yeah, but I just weed through all the garbage to the fact that they're just the pot calling the kettle black...
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 28, 2010 0:24:23 GMT -5
Damn it! Why isn't anyone posting? Come on guys, finding this thread through The Brick Which You Have Been Forced To Suck is not that hard!
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Post by Heartbroken SpongeMonkey12 on Jun 29, 2010 0:38:07 GMT -5
Code Red! Code Red! Guys, we have a major crisis! I had it set up to watch KP a few minutes ago and I end up seeing Wizards Of Waverly Place! I can't believe it! They actually went and done it! She's really completely gone!!! I hope you anti-FFKP guys are proud of yourselves. First you go and continually slam our efforts then you go and rob us of the board! If it wasn't for you, this wouldn't have happened. I hope you're happy, cause I certainly ain't.
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 29, 2010 0:56:29 GMT -5
Tell me how I'm responsible for the decisions of DC's scheduling department.
Please.
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Post by Dr. Feelgood on Jun 29, 2010 6:03:16 GMT -5
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Post by Twila Starla on Jun 29, 2010 13:08:50 GMT -5
Code Red! Code Red! Guys, we have A major crisis! I had it set up to watch KP A few minutes ago and I end up seeing Wizards Of Waverly Place! I can't believe it! They actually went and done it! She's really completely gone!!! I hope you anti-FFKP guys are proud of yourselves. First you go and continually slam our efforts then you go and rob us of the board! If it wasn't for you, this wouldn't have happened. I hope you're happy, cause I certainly ain't. Oh god... okay, first, the people on this board do not have control over what Disney plays on their graveyard slots, so blame the right people, please. And secondly, according to my TV, Kim Possible will play at it's normal time tonight. There was a mix-up... or they just haven't changed it to Waverly Place yet. I only know though this because my younger brothers watch the reruns from time to time, if they're up late...
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