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Post by manofevil on Jun 10, 2010 3:05:00 GMT -5
Actually, I think it boils down to two words that have kept me unemployed for ten years: CORPORATE POLICY! Before there ever was a Mickey Mouse, our man Walt created a very similar character named Oswald the Rabbit. After a few cartoons, Walt tried to get more money for his creation. He learned that, due to clauses in the contract, the studio, not the creator, owned the character. Walt was literally laughed out of the office after the studio yanked his first successful creation out from under him. I am certain that Walt vowed never to let such a thing happen to him again. I am even more certain that Walt made certain that every contract he signed thereafter gave him strict creative control of EVERYTHING he created from that time on. These legal contracts were undoubtedly transferred to his studio when he incorporated in the late forties. When he died in the sixties, I've no doubt that the legal control of the properties passed to the company, so effectively, every creative talent that goes to work for Disney has to surrender any rights to the characters they create. Anything made for Disney Corp. BELONGS TO DISNEY CORP.!!! That's probably why we don't hear more from Bob and Mark on this- because they know they don't have a legal leg to stand on and aren't going to risk their careers. But consider this: it may well be that Disney breaking corporate policy and selling the rights to another studio could be a double edged sword. For if Disney were to sell the rights to another studio, it would probably require that Disney remove all Kim Possible attractions from the theme parks. When Kim became a Disney character, she effectively became immortal. If we remove her status as a Disney Character, it may well seal her fate. I want more Kim Possible, but I don't want it that bad. It kills me to say this, but we need DISNEY to make more Kim Possible. There is no one else.
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Post by imipak on Jun 10, 2010 3:38:39 GMT -5
To me, what matters is not who is "right" or "wrong", what matters is that this issue is not a simple one but that - at the same time - there are many solutions, even if we can't agree on what the solutions are or even what the problem was in the first place.
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Post by Muzzlehatch on Jun 10, 2010 19:21:35 GMT -5
I don't know of any case where Disney sold off their characters to another company.
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Post by imipak on Jun 11, 2010 15:09:16 GMT -5
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Post by Joe Stoppinghem on Jun 11, 2010 23:00:04 GMT -5
I think if Disney could get more money from selling a character they would.
If they could make money selling partial rights of a character to another company they would.
They sold the Disney Store concept to Children's Palace, and you can see the difference. But the big D' doesn't care.
It may be too late, they could have had the same kind of story books, books helping kids learn to read. Scooby Doo has several like these, but either Disney didn't think or want to take that avenue.
Since the show is on La-la land time, today's toddlers wouldn't know who she is. But in a few more years, their Mother would remember.
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 12, 2010 9:27:47 GMT -5
Okay, so who's interested in buying Kim Possible?
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Post by imipak on Jun 12, 2010 17:20:29 GMT -5
You work on getting the bank to agree to give me the loan needed, and I'll buy Kim Possible... and I'll show you what really IS possible. If Arthur Ransome can turn a book about how to raise sails and tie knots (with a few characters thrown in) into a children's classic series that has lasted 80 years and been made into 5 movies, I can darn well turn KP into something that would out-perform all other animated series yet produced, combined.
Why? Because I understand just enough of how the sheer genius of people like Arthur Ransome, Helen Cresswell, John Christopher, and the like, could produce classics that people remember to be able to see whether that strand of genius exists elsewhere. I can say nothing of any other kind of genius, so can say nothing about series that do not use the technique I happen to like.
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 13, 2010 11:10:43 GMT -5
Ugh. Now you're coming off as arrogant, just like those zealot FFFs. I can't digest this.
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Post by manofevil on Jun 13, 2010 20:08:47 GMT -5
WE'RE DRIVING HIM AWAY!!! KEEP GOING GUYS!!!! WE'LL SHUT HIM UP SOON!!! (maybe if we took away his Kimmunist credentials and cast him from the party.) ;D
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 13, 2010 21:06:38 GMT -5
WE'RE DRIVING HIM AWAY!!! KEEP GOING GUYS!!!! WE'LL SHUT HIM UP SOON!!! (maybe if we took away his Kimmunist credentials and cast him from the party.) ;D Ah, I remember when the Kimmunist thread was still going. Miss ole Darth Griffin to pieces. Fun fact, I never asked for the Loyal Knight of the Kimmunist Party title, and I have been meaning to ask a mod for my old 'Emissary of the End' title, but honestly I haven't thought to ask any time I've been on here. I think I'll send Funky or Serge a PM right now asking for just that. Edit: Also, if you'd paid any attention at all, you would know that it is your zealotry that drove me to troll you guys in the first place. You aren't driving me away, you're making me detest your little cause even more. Maybe Disney would actually take you guys seriously if you didn't come off as some sort of crazed religious sect. I've heard of shows reaching cult status, but to have an actual cult following it?
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Post by imipak on Jun 15, 2010 0:09:20 GMT -5
Given the choice of arrogance and stupidity, let me be arrogant. Besides, don't blame me. You pushed so I shoved. Did I happen to forget to mention than pushing me is a Bad Idea? Oh waaaaah. Maybe you will cut out the kindergarden crap, then, and stick to civilized discourse.
Ohhh, it's the "civilized discourse" that makes me seem arrogant? You can't be civilized except through pretension, so you assume nobody who is civilized could possibly be so because we're nice people? Makes a lot of sense. Now go back to your nice padded room and wait for the doctors. They will be along shortly.
Finally, if you troll in a place that is guaranteed maximum response, you're darn right people will be all too glad to bite your hand off. Freedom of expression is one thing, freedom to scream blue murder in the middle of a bunch of fans, rabidly trying to poke their eyes out with your incendiary posts... That's another.
Oh, and if I did need to have to justify being arrogant, why would I bother with anything more than mentioning my grandfather was across the hall from J. R. R. Tolkien at Magdelein College? After that, all else seems trite.
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Post by imipak on Jun 15, 2010 0:16:19 GMT -5
I think you'll discover it was your incessant trolling - no matter how neutral or considerate of your opinion I was - that has left me no alternative but to beat the crap out of your posts with a 2' blunt axe. If it was XYZZY's zealotry that did anything at all, you would take it out on XYZZY. You did not. You took it out on bystanders, and for that I will NEVER forgive. You want blood, you got it.
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Post by codenamehunterwolf on Jun 15, 2010 0:17:21 GMT -5
Everybody has the right to their opinon, but someone who posts hate against the fandom take it to the point where no one cares.
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 15, 2010 1:55:43 GMT -5
You work on getting the bank to agree to give me the loan needed, and I'll buy Kim Possible... and I'll show you what really IS possible. If Arthur Ransome can turn a book about how to raise sails and tie knots (with a few characters thrown in) into a children's classic series that has lasted 80 years and been made into 5 movies, I can darn well turn KP into something that would out-perform all other animated series yet produced, combined. Why? Because I understand just enough of how the sheer genius of people like Arthur Ransome, Helen Cresswell, John Christopher, and the like, could produce classics that people remember to be able to see whether that strand of genius exists elsewhere. I can say nothing of any other kind of genius, so can say nothing about series that do not use the technique I happen to like. Given the choice of arrogance and stupidity, let me be arrogant. Besides, don't blame me. You pushed so I shoved. Did I happen to forget to mention than pushing me is a Bad Idea? Oh waaaaah. Maybe you will cut out the kindergarden crap, then, and stick to civilized discourse. My, my. So defensive. Why so serious? Also, arrogance and stupidity aren't mutually exclusive. Verbose stupidity is still stupidity. Ohhh, it's the "civilized discourse" that makes me seem arrogant? No my friend, that is not it at all. This quote is what made you seem arrogant in my eyes. You work on getting the bank to agree to give me the loan needed, and I'll buy Kim Possible... and I'll show you what really IS possible. If Arthur Ransome can turn a book about how to raise sails and tie knots (with a few characters thrown in) into a children's classic series that has lasted 80 years and been made into 5 movies, I can darn well turn KP into something that would out-perform all other animated series yet produced, combined. Why? Because I understand just enough of how the sheer genius of people like Arthur Ransome, Helen Cresswell, John Christopher, and the like, could produce classics that people remember to be able to see whether that strand of genius exists elsewhere. I can say nothing of any other kind of genius, so can say nothing about series that do not use the technique I happen to like. I don't know what your talents are as a writer or producer or a marketing director or anything are. I do know that to say that you alone could out perform countless classics that came before is an arrogant statement. Unless you were speaking in hyperbole, in which case I will withdraw the accusation of arrogance. You can't be civilized except through pretension, so you assume nobody who is civilized could possibly be so because we're nice people? Makes a lot of sense. Now go back to your nice padded room and wait for the doctors. They will be along shortly. Um... you can't claim civilized discourse once you start making personal attacks like that, you are aware of this correct? Finally, if you troll in a place that is guaranteed maximum response, you're darn right people will be all too glad to bite your hand off. Freedom of expression is one thing, freedom to scream blue murder in the middle of a bunch of fans, rabidly trying to poke their eyes out with your incendiary posts... That's another. We're posting in an online forum, good sir. I doubt even you posses the tenacity required to transcend cyberspace and snap off my hand with your jaws. Oh, and if I did need to have to justify being arrogant, why would I bother with anything more than mentioning my grandfather was across the hall from J. R. R. Tolkien at Magdelein College? After that, all else seems trite. Really? Cool story, bro. I think you'll discover it was your incessant trolling - no matter how neutral or considerate of your opinion I was - that has left me no alternative but to beat the crap out of your posts with a 2' blunt axe. If it was XYZZY's zealotry that did anything at all, you would take it out on XYZZY. You did not. You took it out on bystanders, and for that I will NEVER forgive. You want blood, you got it. What bystanders? As for the blood... baby, there's only enough blood here to turn me on. We're gonna have to go all out if this is ever gonna get me off!!!!
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Post by imipak on Jun 15, 2010 2:09:25 GMT -5
Everybody has the right to their opinon Agreed entirely. Here I beg to differ. I'm an outsider in 99.99% of all life because I believe in such things as fandom. If I am then an outsider of fandom because the fans themselves do not believe in fandom, where the hell am I supposed to belong? I am not alone in this, I am merely very vocal. Having spent most of my life feeling bloody miserable for merely having the audacity to enjoy things, I'm at the point where I want to feel that there's at least SOME group that actually not only claims to enjoy the same thing but actually does. The more this dispute continues, the more I believe I was wrong, that fandom for fans is dead, that all that fandom does now is serve as a platform for despising and sneering at those who really do like a good yarn. I am vocal because I do not believe this vitriol to have anything to do with fandom, and because my refusal to roll over and beg somehow makes me "arrogant". You want a poodle, go get a poodle. You want a discussion go get a discussion. If you want unclear communication, go be a politician. Sure, I don't run this board. So? Do you think me leaving will make your communication any more honest? Any more open? Do you think me leaving will make your desire to have everyone else a pet poodle any less feverent? It won't make the slightest difference, one way or the other. You will remain you, whether I stay, leave or turn purple. You did not become a troll because of anything I said or did, and nothing I say or do will ever cause you to not be one. Being a troll was, is, and always will be, your free choice. You never did answer me about getting me KP. You call me arrogant but offer no basis for believing I couldn't do every last thing of what I claimed. Rejection of a statement has no meaning if you aren't willing to say why. Most times anyone rejects out of hand - here or anywhere - it is out of cowardice. Personally, I no longer give a darn. I'm here to enjoy the fine company of fans and the fine drinks called ideas. I have seen neither, except in a few, very few, brief posts on what colour an evil naco would be. Everything else has enough venom to fuel an army of poisonous snakes for a thousand years. If I wanted the evil snake breeder's association, I'd have joined them. I joined here, fool that I was.
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Post by Nightspade on Jun 15, 2010 13:23:39 GMT -5
Everybody has the right to their opinon Agreed entirely. Here I beg to differ. I'm an outsider in 99.99% of all life because I believe in such things as fandom. If I am then an outsider of fandom because the fans themselves do not believe in fandom, where the hell am I supposed to belong? Who said we didn't believe in fandom? I just don't think Kim Possible needs a season 5, and the annoying way the FFF carries on it's business really doesn't sit well with me. They have no strategy, no cohesion, no plan other than just spamming the same post cards and e-mails every month asking for whatever. I honestly don't even know if they know what they want now. Whether they're trying to get a season five, a DVD boxset release, more air time, or theatrical KP movies, they seem to be asking for everything all at once if the posts they make are anything to go by. And that just won't work. Not only at this point is a fifth season highly unlikely (not to mention un-needed) but all they're doing is annoying the corporate entity that owns Kim Possible. I don't understand why they don't just write up a petition for DVD Boxsets, set a goal for one million signatures (e-handles forbidden, of course) and then send it to Disney once they have the one million signatures needed. It's really simple. I am not alone in this, I am merely very vocal. Having spent most of my life feeling bloody miserable for merely having the audacity to enjoy things, I'm at the point where I want to feel that there's at least SOME group that actually not only claims to enjoy the same thing but actually does.We Americans call that being a nerd, or I'm sorry, the politically correct term for what we are is Social Outcast. I'll buy you a beer next time you're state side (and after I've turned 21.) The more this dispute continues, the more I believe I was wrong, that fandom for fans is dead, that all that fandom does now is serve as a platform for despising and sneering at those who really do like a good yarn. I'm not ragging on Kim Possible. Even in the 'Maybe KP wasn't that great' thread, all I ever said was that I agreed with the blogger when they said that Kim Possible was flawed as a role model. I still watch it whenever I can catch it on Disney Channel. Oh yeah, and I still come here. I am vocal because I do not believe this vitriol to have anything to do with fandom, and because my refusal to roll over and beg somehow makes me "arrogant". You want a poodle, go get a poodle. You want a discussion go get a discussion. If you want unclear communication, go be a politician. My friend, I already explained why I called you arrogant in my previous post. Please re-read it, I don't think you're arrogant because you 'refuse to roll over and beg' (beg to who and for what, btw?) but because you made an arrogant boast. Sure, I don't run this board. So? Do you think me leaving will make your communication any more honest? Any more open? Do you think me leaving will make your desire to have everyone else a pet poodle any less feverent? It won't make the slightest difference, one way or the other. You will remain you, whether I stay, leave or turn purple. You did not become a troll because of anything I said or did, and nothing I say or do will ever cause you to not be one. Being a troll was, is, and always will be, your free choice. Have you confused Codenamehunterwolf(millinniummany3k) for me? I highly doubt you're the one he was targeting. You never did answer me about getting me KP. You call me arrogant but offer no basis for believing I couldn't do every last thing of what I claimed. Rejection of a statement has no meaning if you aren't willing to say why. Most times anyone rejects out of hand - here or anywhere - it is out of cowardice. I find it outlandish to think that you can surpass Transformers, The Lion King, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, The Little Mermaid, Titan A.E., The Iron Giant, Kikki's Delivery Service, The Land Before Time (the first movie, and a few of the sequels... very few of the sequels), Pokemon, Teen Titans, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Family Guy, The Simpsons, Futurama, Moral Orel, The Boondocks, Johnny Quest, Scooby Doo, Superfriends, Justice League (and Unlimited), The Entire DCAU for that matter, X-Men the Animated series, Spider-man in every animated incarnation, and every other show that I didn't mention in terms of popularity, story quality, and entertainment value. My basis for not believing you could pull that off? I know those series, but you yourself have provided no evidence that you're as talented a story writer as those that came before. I don't know what your skills are as a promoter, so how can I believe that you'd be able to market a new Kim Possible to a larger crowd? I have no basis to believe that you can do what you so proudly boast about being able to do, so I have every right to be skeptical until you offer proof otherwise. One does not invest money in something simply because a person says they can turn it into a profit. There needs to be sales, growth, and earnings projections, market patterns must be discussed, a reason why this product is better than the others out there must be given, and above all the investor needs to be made confident in what he invests. Provide me with something to give me enough confidence that you can outshine all others (COMBINED) in terms of quality and I will have no choice but concede that you could 'out-perform all other animated series yet produced, combined.' Personally, I no longer give a darn. I'm here to enjoy the fine company of fans and the fine drinks called ideas. I have seen neither, except in a few, very few, brief posts on what colour an evil naco would be. Everything else has enough venom to fuel an army of poisonous snakes for a thousand years. If I wanted the evil snake breeder's association, I'd have joined them. I joined here, fool that I was. Keep fighting the poison. You'll either survive and be stronger for it. Or die faster because your heart will get excited and pump it through your system at an accelerated pace. Whichever one, I'm sure it'll be an experience you won't want to miss. Me, I've always wanted to die going toe-to-toe with a Bear or a Tiger. Just seems like an epic way to go out.
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Post by imipak on Jun 17, 2010 3:01:08 GMT -5
Dying is the more likely. On the one hand, I really am as good as I say I am. On the other, as anyone who has bothered to track through my posts can probably hazard a guess at, I have mood stability worse than a teenage Shego at the wrong time of month. When it works well, it works bloody well. When it works badly, it's a wreck. This does NOT excuse my conduct at those times and I am sorry for those. I loath being isolated, but I despise groin-level thrashouts. My brain feeds off data worse than the fictional Sherlock Holmes, but retreating into a corner won't solve that.
This really needs a new topic, somewhere, if anyone is willing to homour an old bastard like me into finding a place in KPdom.
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Post by imipak on Jun 17, 2010 3:29:39 GMT -5
P. S. If I can beat [This First Draft][http://www.godamongdirectors.com/scripts/swd1.shtml], then I've beaten George Lucas. Everything else was done in collaboration with editors, additional writers, storyboarders, actors, etc. I cannot be all of these, but I don't need to. All it takes to do better is to have the foundations solid, work well in a team and work with others to build those foundations up.
[Elephant's Dream and Big Buck Bunny][http://www.vimeo.com/user508904] show what you can do with this approach.
One drawback. I don't get long, even with myself, but I don't need to to know that Elephand's Dream was done by students with scraped-together technology and a willingness to try.
Hey, the Blender data files for the movies exist - start be recasting one of the guys as Kim Possible, then keep changing things around. See what happens.
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Post by Beaglebub on Jun 20, 2010 4:17:17 GMT -5
Okay, so who's interested in buying Kim Possible? I have three. Are you selling any?
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Post by lovethebeardkevin on Jun 20, 2010 16:26:39 GMT -5
it had to happen sometime, the same thing is going to happen to hannah montana in a couple years. everything must run its course.
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