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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Oct 13, 2005 21:04:37 GMT -5
thats a lot of text.
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Post by taechunsa on Oct 13, 2005 21:23:48 GMT -5
I doubt there is a writer alive whose writting hasn't been affected, for good or ill, by his or her beliefs. I try not to impart too much of my own worldview to characters (or else I could never write villains!), but in some cases it is unavoidable. Orson Scott Card once wrote "Sometimes it will startle, even embarrass you, when you look back on a story you've written and suddenly realize how much you have confessed without even meaning to." Every story that we write has our fingerprints all over it. No matter how hard we try we put a piece of ourselves on display. Every story tells a little bit about us. It is kind of scary. For instance every story that I write is very heavy on the love elements. I feel very strongly that love is what seperates us from the animals, and that love is what allows us to be great. Yet, at the same time love is tied to the flip side of the coin, hate. If one can love then one can hate, and hate brings us to the darkest nature of man. What this says about me I don't really know. I did not intentionally do this, but when I recently looked back at all of the stories that I have ever written love and the lengths that one will go to obtain and protect it are common themes in all of them. It is the piece of myself that works into every story, for good or ill. And if you think it's unfathomable now... wait'll you see what happens at the end of the story... I'll likely be thought rather daft at that point... ;D Moose, you worry me with talk like that. If you are too harsh to poor Kim and Ron I might just have to come to Georgia and hunt you down. ;D I mean honestly, how many artificial moose can there be in Georgia?
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 13, 2005 21:35:22 GMT -5
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with premarital sex, especially in the context of a relationship like Kim and Ron have, so naturally my version of Kim doesn't, either.
What surprises me isn't that people who think there's something wrong with premarital sex think that Kim would never do this, but that there are in fact a large number of folks here who think there's something wrong with premarital sex. Didn't the culture settle this one, like, 38 years ago? Do people actually believe the prudish Republican conservative propaganda? I guess so.
Just to let you know, I've had somewhere around 1500-1800 experiences of premarital sex (never had any other kind), with 18 different women (one relationship at a time, but finally one worked out), and never had an unwanted pregnancy, never caught a venerial disease, never caused an abortion, never had any other troubles either, and don't consider myself especially lucky.
One just has to take the proper precautions, above all, don't do it with your consciousness all mucked up by alcohol or substances (which makes you forget important details).
I always wanted to be married, too, but I can't, not unless my country (America) gets a universal health care system like (not quite sure) I think Canada and most of Europe has. My sweetie has medical problems way beyond my fundage.
-------
Back to Bonnie. I can draw a line between her and Kim easily enough just by saying Bonnie's probably done stuff with most of her boyfriends, even when the relationships are unstable, and Kim (eventually) only with her fiance, Ron, who she's really been dating since she was four!
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Post by creeper on Oct 13, 2005 21:44:14 GMT -5
8-)ok man all of you sound horny i dont know why
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felixrenton
Yellow Trout
If i get my way, you will bow and Kim and Ron will play forever.
Posts: 87
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Post by felixrenton on Oct 13, 2005 21:50:57 GMT -5
i don't think she would wait, just my opinion. I should ask a non- fanfic saturated fan, the form of my best friend.
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Post by JuPMod on Oct 14, 2005 7:09:19 GMT -5
Orson Scott Card once wrote "Sometimes it will startle, even embarrass you, when you look back on a story you've written and suddenly realize how much you have confessed without even meaning to." Every story that we write has our fingerprints all over it. No matter how hard we try we put a piece of ourselves on display. Every story tells a little bit about us. It is kind of scary. I always had believed that a person's writing reflects a bit on the person's personality. Not always though, given I know a person might write something that totally is not who he/she is. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with premarital sex, especially in the context of a relationship like Kim and Ron have, so naturally my version of Kim doesn't, either. Same here. I see nothing wrong with premartial sex, thus I see Kim doesn't either. If people don't believe in premartial sex and see Kim and Ron don't, that's their right to believe it that way. I certainly don't see anyone in this thread, for either side, saying the other side is wrong. We all have our rights to believe what we think is right on the subject. I don't know about anyone on this board, but I do know there are people in this world that think premartial sex is *immoral*. Well, they have their right to believe it that way, but some of these people think those, who think premarital sex is okay, are immoral. Give me a break! Just because people believe and/or engage in premartial sex doesn''t make them immoral! Sex is a *natural* process that has been going on this planet since life began. Yes, it's a biological process of procreation, but us humans took it a step further to show support, love, and pleasure. I can't see anyone saying this natural process is immoral. It doesn't make any sense.
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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Oct 14, 2005 13:45:33 GMT -5
yikes
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Post by Artificial Moose on Oct 14, 2005 18:14:54 GMT -5
Orson Scott Card once wrote "Sometimes it will startle, even embarrass you, when you look back on a story you've written and suddenly realize how much you have confessed without even meaning to." Every story that we write has our fingerprints all over it. No matter how hard we try we put a piece of ourselves on display. Every story tells a little bit about us. It is kind of scary. Bound to happen, when you write from the heart. I feel very strongly that love is what seperates us from the animals, and that love is what allows us to be great. Yet, at the same time love is tied to the flip side of the coin, hate. If one can love then one can hate, and hate brings us to the darkest nature of man. This is good; I like this. And if you think it's unfathomable now... wait'll you see what happens at the end of the story... I'll likely be thought rather daft at that point... ;D Moose, you worry me with talk like that. If you are too harsh to poor Kim and Ron I might just have to come to Georgia and hunt you down. ;D I mean honestly, how many artificial moose can there be in Georgia? Well, I can't speak for the whole state, but here in Kennesaw there are at least four. 1. Me. Sorta. I don't have horns, though. 2. The artificial moose outside the Canadian-themed restaurant Bugaboo Creek, located on Barret Parkway (the "Main Strip", IMO). This is actual inspiration for the nick. 3. The wall mounted talking moose head located in the same restaurant. 4. The moose hand puppet used by the waiters in said restaurant during birthday ceremonies. Good restaurant; not exactly unique in food choices, but the atmosphere is something else. And I ain't trying to be too harsh to 'em... the one thing to keep in mind, whatever I write, is that I will always give them (meaning Kim and Ron) a happy ending. Just call it a plot conceit of mine. As for being harsh... shoot, what I'm going to put them through ain't all that harsh (no, my nose isn't growing, why do you ask?). What I'm gonna do to my Star Wars characters, now that's harsh. ::maniacal laughter::
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Post by Ezbok58a on Oct 14, 2005 19:49:59 GMT -5
I finally decided to vote, And I think they wouldn't wait till they were married to have sex.
Simple reasons for this, most of which may have been stated.
The missions they go on, at any point in time one of those missions could be their last, that and I have the line "I don't want to die a virgin" running through my head.
Kim and Ron love each other, so if they have to go on a mission were either of them have a bad feeling, I could see them performing the action, out of love.
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jc3p2
Yellow Trout
Posts: 93
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Post by jc3p2 on Oct 16, 2005 8:47:29 GMT -5
they all redey done it i say
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Post by taechunsa on Oct 17, 2005 6:00:03 GMT -5
they all redey done it i say Never heard this one before.
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 17, 2005 12:39:54 GMT -5
Depends on what's meant by "all redey," I suppose. The last we see of them is "So the Drama," which could mean, in the absense of tim standing still, they've had enough time since then to get into this.
I doubt any such thing could have happened between Kim and Ron during the period we actually observe them, or what we do see would look really different.
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jc3p2
Yellow Trout
Posts: 93
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Post by jc3p2 on Oct 17, 2005 13:20:12 GMT -5
Depends on what's meant by "all redey," I suppose. The last we see of them is "So the Drama," which could mean, in the absense of tim standing still, they've had enough time since then to get into this. I doubt any such thing could have happened between Kim and Ron during the period we actually observe them, or what we do see would look really different. trow trow
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Post by ninjanaco on Oct 17, 2005 13:24:36 GMT -5
Depends on what's meant by "all redey," I suppose. The last we see of them is "So the Drama," which could mean, in the absense of tim standing still, they've had enough time since then to get into this. I doubt any such thing could have happened between Kim and Ron during the period we actually observe them, or what we do see would look really different. Gasp! A statement by cloudmonet in this thread that I actually agree with! Yeah, I voted "Yes" to them waiting. Yes, I believe that sex should wait until marriage. If that makes me a fundamentalist reactionary right-wing stuck-in-the-mud, so be it. But will Kim and Ron "do it" before tying the knot? We simply don't know. Both Kim and Ron have a moral code (Kim more than Ron). This can be seen in the series. Ron, while he cheats on his schoolwork and breaks the dietary laws of his faith with wild abandon, nevertheless considers himself on the side of "good" and only sides with evil when affected by the Attitudinator. Kim objects to cheating (re her problem with Sadie giving her the A++ in Driver's Ed and her displeasure with Ron's using the Japanese executives to do his homework in "So the Drama"), describes Bortle's mind control chips as "ferociously unethical" (though she later succumbs to using them to get the tweebs to sleep ), and lists the fact that Hollywood stars "live by no recognizable moral code" as a difference between them and Kim and Ron in "And the Molerat will be CGI." But do Kim and Ron's moral codes exclude premarital sex? Again, we don't know. Ron is Jewish, to be sure, but as previously mentioned, he doesn't seem to take his faith seriously. Kim - what religion is she? It can safely be assumed that, at the least, she was raised Christian, as the "Silent Night" scene in "Hidden Talent" took place, IMHO, at a church-related function (I could explain why, but won't right now.) But is she a believing Christian now? We don't know. We don't see her at church or anything like that, but we really don't see anything that would seriously exclude the possibility of Kim Possible (at the time of the show) being a practicing Christian (who, it could be assumed, doesn't believe in permarital sex.) In the end, Kim and Ron may "do it" before they get married, and they might not. The show's portrayal of the characters excludes neither possiblity.
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jc3p2
Yellow Trout
Posts: 93
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Post by jc3p2 on Oct 17, 2005 13:33:55 GMT -5
Depends on what's meant by "all redey," I suppose. The last we see of them is "So the Drama," which could mean, in the absense of tim standing still, they've had enough time since then to get into this. I doubt any such thing could have happened between Kim and Ron during the period we actually observe them, or what we do see would look really different. Gasp! A statement by cloudmonet in this thread that I actually agree with! Yeah, I voted "Yes" to them waiting. Yes, I believe that sex should wait until marriage. If that makes me a fundamentalist reactionary right-wing stuck-in-the-mud, so be it. But will Kim and Ron "do it" before tying the knot? We simply don't know. Both Kim and Ron have a moral code (Kim more than Ron). This can be seen in the series. Ron, while he cheats on his schoolwork and breaks the dietary laws of his faith with wild abandon, nevertheless considers himself on the side of "good" and only sides with evil when affected by the Attitudinator. Kim objects to cheating (re her problem with Sadie giving her the A++ in Driver's Ed and her displeasure with Ron's using the Japanese executives to do his homework in "So the Drama"), describes Bortle's mind control chips as "ferociously unethical" (though she later succumbs to using them to get the tweebs to sleep ), and lists the fact that Hollywood stars "live by no recognizable moral code" as a difference between them and Kim and Ron in "And the Molerat will be CGI." But do Kim and Ron's moral codes exclude premarital sex? Again, we don't know. Ron is Jewish, to be sure, but as previously mentioned, he doesn't seem to take his faith seriously. Kim - what religion is she? It can safely be assumed that, at the least, she was raised Christian, as the "Silent Night" scene in "Hidden Talent" took place, IMHO, at a church-related function (I could explain why, but won't right now.) But is she a believing Christian now? We don't know. We don't see her at church or anything like that, but we really don't see anything that would seriously exclude the possibility of Kim Possible (at the time of the show) being a practicing Christian (who, it could be assumed, doesn't believe in permarital sex.) In the end, Kim and Ron may "do it" before they get married, and they might not. The show's portrayal of the characters excludes neither possiblity. thats a lot of writing but all trow but i still think they will do it befor they get marrid i think that they done it after the prom in so the drama
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 17, 2005 16:48:51 GMT -5
I'm rather more inclined to think, given the rather slow pace they warmed up to each other in the first place, admittedly accelerated in the semester covered by season 3, that they'd be unlikely to go this far immediately. Give them enough time to get their birth control together, at least! I would be inclined to guess either 1) the senior prom, 2) high school graduation, 3) Kim's 18th birthday, or 4) her acceptance of Ron's proposal and ring, as the most likely times for "sexual situations," as the ratings folks put it, to begin.
What, that they haven't had sex before the end of "So the Drama"? That's pretty obvious.
There's no way to prove anything about an extrapolated future for Kim and Ron, beyond saying the existing trends point strongly toward a marriage between them, with near zero likelihood of divorce.
If you want to avoid the premarital sex bugaboo, if it is a problem for you, get them married quickly.
As for your otherwise total disagreement with me about this stuff, check back with me in about 15 years. I'll be interested to see if your opinions have changed at all. So far, I think the oldest person in the "premarital sex is bad" camp is about 23, and most are much younger, but I could be wrong about this.
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Post by jmt2005791 on Oct 17, 2005 16:56:23 GMT -5
i admit i'm 18 and probably be in that camp because i have never been in love so i really don't know how to apporach this topic with much knowledge so i have to go with my beliefs at this time.
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Post by Artificial Moose on Oct 17, 2005 19:25:51 GMT -5
If you want to avoid the premarital sex bugaboo, if it is a problem for you, get them married quickly. What, and pre-emptively concede that it is absolutely impossible for two people to both love each other with every fiber of their being AND wait till they're married to engage in sexual intercourse? Never! Twenty-four and half a year again, actually. There is a reason why I have not cited personal experience in this exchange... and that reason is not just due to my relative youth. What more can I say? I respect your age and experience, Cloud, for such things bring wisdom. More often than not I find myself in agreement with you (especially on the re-eval thread, hence why I rarely post there; I am not a parrot ;D ), though in this subject I must disagree. Not so much with the potential validity of the act, as I have said prior, but more so with regards to its inevitability. But shoot; if everyone started agreeing on everything all of sudden, I'd start to get worried. 'Specially if they started agreeing with me. Honestly, though... I think these characters are pliable enough to where their choice in this matter is entirely dependent on the beholder and/or writer. Save fiat from on high (i.e., Mark and Bob descend from their lofty position and bless us with high knowledge regarding the matter), we may simply have to agree to disagree, as I do not think that we have enough objective information for either of us to form unassailable opinions. That sounds like a cop-out, I know, but I sense that both sides are well and firmly entrenched in our positions, and the last thing we need is a Western Front. But I could be wrong in that. Oh, and just as a FYI in case of further discussion... what I believe with regards to sex, and many other likely topics of contention, has nothing whatsoever to do with "prudish Republican propoganda", and even less to do with what the "culture" decided thirty-eighty years ago, ten years ago, five years ago, yesterday, today, or even what it will decide tomorrow. I do not intend the above to sound smarmy or pricklish, just as a simple correction to an apparent misconception. And, yes, my source of belief is my Christian faith. So be it. Just so we know where each other stands; it makes discussion much easier. Of course, that's just me; I fully expect most people's milleage to vary. However, do keep in mind that we are, apparently, seriously discussing the sex life of a couple of cartoon characters. I find this very surreal. ;D But, as in all things... ::double chest thump:: ::makes V-sign:: Nothin' but love.
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Post by taechunsa on Oct 17, 2005 21:50:38 GMT -5
Here is something that I have not seen anyone consider in this topic.
What does Kim's apparent lack of concern for undressing in front of Ron say about her morals on the subject? It does seem to fly against a strong Christian belief against allowable interaction between the sexes.
Also, of note is that Ron doesn't just stare in these instances. He averts his eyes in the two cases that I can think of.
Do these say anything?
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Post by Ezbok58a on Oct 17, 2005 22:02:40 GMT -5
They act like they are married.
Couples do that all the time, with little concern for their spouse in the room.
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