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Haters
Aug 10, 2007 6:12:05 GMT -5
Post by mike on Aug 10, 2007 6:12:05 GMT -5
It really depends on how do you define "evil"... to say she's evil after all if we are talking the general evil as in "anything that causes great discomfort", then by all means she is evil. But in the sense that it means "taking-over-the-world, killing, stealing", we can't really count her as one can we?
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Haters
Aug 10, 2007 7:22:15 GMT -5
Post by Whisper from the Shadows on Aug 10, 2007 7:22:15 GMT -5
If we're talking the "anything that causes great discomfort" evil, then I'm willing to bet that most (over 80%) of the people on this board are evil. And if that is what people are trying to say about her, the I'll concede and agree with you. I don't call this evil, just a strong personality that not everyone can get along with.
I am saying she is not super villain evil, or as you put it"taking-over-the-world, killing, stealing" evil. And this is the point I've been trying to get across.
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Haters
Aug 10, 2007 7:33:22 GMT -5
Post by nabusan on Aug 10, 2007 7:33:22 GMT -5
Haha, lol - I've probably 'caused discomfort to anyone who's against a certain ship. ^^
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kp/hp-lover
Yellow Trout
Harry/Ginny Forever!!!!!
Posts: 85
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Haters
Aug 12, 2007 7:39:50 GMT -5
Post by kp/hp-lover on Aug 12, 2007 7:39:50 GMT -5
dont hate bonnie shes only human
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Haters
Aug 12, 2007 7:42:35 GMT -5
Post by mike on Aug 12, 2007 7:42:35 GMT -5
technically speaking she's only a cartoon character ;D ;D ;D
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Haters
Aug 12, 2007 20:00:45 GMT -5
Post by lonestarr357 on Aug 12, 2007 20:00:45 GMT -5
dont hate bonnie shes only human Absolutely...if by only, you mean 'barely'.
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 0:48:26 GMT -5
Post by Whisper from the Shadows on Aug 13, 2007 0:48:26 GMT -5
Just a simple question to ask the people I have labeled as "haters": Have you ever intentionally done something with the intent and full knowledge that what you were doing would cause someone else discomfort, whether it's physical, mental, or emotional?
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 1:12:48 GMT -5
Post by slicknickshady on Aug 13, 2007 1:12:48 GMT -5
Have you ever intentionally done something with the intent and full knowledge that what you were doing would cause someone else discomfort, whether it's physical, mental, or emotional? Nope. I have not.
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 2:08:19 GMT -5
Post by Whisper from the Shadows on Aug 13, 2007 2:08:19 GMT -5
Have you ever intentionally done something with the intent and full knowledge that what you were doing would cause someone else discomfort, whether it's physical, mental, or emotional? Nope. I have not. Then two things: 1) the direction I was going with this is gone; and 2) I have to tip my hat to you, you are a far better person than me (and probably everybody else I know) for never doing something to intentionally wrong another person.
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 2:26:05 GMT -5
Post by Kimron Posstoppable on Aug 13, 2007 2:26:05 GMT -5
I agree. I'm tired of hereing the sister excuse as well. So it's okay for Bonnie's sisters to treat her like crap, but it's not okay for Bonnie to treat Kim badly? No. No, it's not okay for Bonnie to treat Kim or anyone else badly because her sisters treated her like crap. Bonnie has a choice not to treat others like crap. She does what she does because it's what she chooses to do. BonBon is a -itch because she chooses to be one. She is not nice because chooses not to be nice. She is selfish because she wants to be. "Bonnie's sisters treated her badly, so Bonnie gets a free pass to treat others like dirt" is a lame excuse for her behavior.
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 5:05:02 GMT -5
Post by Ot@ru on Aug 13, 2007 5:05:02 GMT -5
No. No, it's not okay for Bonnie to treat Kim or anyone else badly because her sisters treated her like crap. Bonnie has a choice not to treat others like crap. She does what she does because it's what she chooses to do. BonBon is a -itch because she chooses to be one. She is not nice because chooses not to be nice. She is selfish because she wants to be. "Bonnie's sisters treated her badly, so Bonnie gets a free pass to treat others like dirt" is a lame excuse for her behavior. Bonnie chooses to be bad.If not who gonna be the girl that treat others like crap......
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 18:04:45 GMT -5
Post by lonestarr357 on Aug 13, 2007 18:04:45 GMT -5
"Bonnie's sisters treated her badly, so Bonnie gets a free pass to treat others like dirt" is a lame excuse for her behavior. You are made of win.
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 21:55:36 GMT -5
Post by DP on Aug 13, 2007 21:55:36 GMT -5
"Bonnie's sisters treated her badly, so Bonnie gets a free pass to treat others like dirt" is a lame excuse for her behavior. You are made of win. Well, I see the fact that her sisters treat her badly not as an excuse for her to treat others badly, but rather proof that she's not a one-dimensional character. She actually has reason for acting the way she is, which doesn't excuse it by any means, but it makes her more likeable than someone like say Megan from Drake and Josh who is mean for absolutely no reason at all.
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Haters
Aug 13, 2007 21:57:41 GMT -5
Post by Rocket on Aug 13, 2007 21:57:41 GMT -5
Well, I see the fact that her sisters treat her badly not as an excuse for her to treat others badly, but rather proof that she's not a one-dimensional character. She actually has reason for acting the way she is, which doesn't excuse it by any means, but it makes her more likeable than someone like say Megan from Drake and Josh who is mean for absolutely no reason at all. Yeah, Bonnie's just full of anger and sadness because of her evil sisters, that's why she is so evil herself. Bad influence.
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Haters
Aug 14, 2007 18:35:15 GMT -5
Post by lonestarr357 on Aug 14, 2007 18:35:15 GMT -5
Well, I see the fact that her sisters treat her badly not as an excuse for her to treat others badly, but rather proof that she's not a one-dimensional character. She actually has reason for acting the way she is, which doesn't excuse it by any means, but it makes her more likeable than someone like say Megan from Drake and Josh who is mean for absolutely no reason at all. But her sisters are even more one-dimensional (and who even knew that was possible?). That may, in your definition of logic, explain why Bonnie's like this, but why are Connie and Lonnie like this? No one ever considers that. (And there may be people out there who are going, 'Who gives a crap about Connie and Lonnie? They're mean!' If so - and I just know that someone has, at one time or another - then welcome to the same page.) I still maintain that this 'quote-unquote' explanation for Bonnie's behavior is lazy, sub-first-year-of-film-school plotting. Sure, she might come from a bad upbringing, but it's her own fault if she lacks the willpower and/or the drive to transcend it. And I know I didn't just see somebody use the word 'likable' to describe Bonnie. Please tell me I hallucinated that.
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Haters
Aug 14, 2007 22:16:20 GMT -5
Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Aug 14, 2007 22:16:20 GMT -5
But her sisters are even more one-dimensional (and who even knew that was possible?). That may, in your definition of logic, explain why Bonnie's like this, but why are Connie and Lonnie like this? No one ever considers that. (And there may be people out there who are going, 'Who gives a crap about Connie and Lonnie? They're mean!' If so - and I just know that someone has, at one time or another - then welcome to the same page.) I still maintain that this 'quote-unquote' explanation for Bonnie's behavior is lazy, sub-first-year-of-film-school plotting. Sure, she might come from a bad upbringing, but it's her own fault if she lacks the willpower and/or the drive to transcend it. And I know I didn't just see somebody use the word 'likable' to describe Bonnie. Please tell me I hallucinated that. *heavy applause* Thank you! I always seem to find someone who puts exactly what I feel into better (i.e. less flame-y) words than I ever could.
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Haters
Aug 14, 2007 22:44:06 GMT -5
Post by DP on Aug 14, 2007 22:44:06 GMT -5
Well, I see the fact that her sisters treat her badly not as an excuse for her to treat others badly, but rather proof that she's not a one-dimensional character. She actually has reason for acting the way she is, which doesn't excuse it by any means, but it makes her more likeable than someone like say Megan from Drake and Josh who is mean for absolutely no reason at all. But her sisters are even more one-dimensional (and who even knew that was possible?). That may, in your definition of logic, explain why Bonnie's like this, but why are Connie and Lonnie like this? Connie and Lonnie, for all we know, could belong to that category of character I was talking about that is like that for no reason, and thus, is less likeable than someone who is like that for a reason. I said that her being treated that way is no excuse for her treating others that way. She does have the choice to act otherwise. But you've got to remember cause and effect. She wouldn't make the choices she makes were she not inspired to make those choices by her sisters in the first place. All three of them are to blame. People all have different opinions. And I'm not telling anyone to like Bonnie here. I understand completely why people would dislike her. I'm just explaining part of my reason for liking her and offering a different perspective on things.
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Haters
Aug 15, 2007 12:01:40 GMT -5
Post by Whisper from the Shadows on Aug 15, 2007 12:01:40 GMT -5
I must not be clear in my explanations, let me try this again.
Bonnie is a B****, she made a choice to be that way. However, it is because of her environment that she is that way, or at least it has had a dramatic effect on her outlook on life. What she's doing is not nice, in fact it's pretty mean (but a far cry from evil).
She could also be using her snide attitude to be covering for severe inferiority complexes (also ties into her sisters degradation), tearing others down to make herself feel better (not a good thing, but it's still quite common).
There is the thought that she is truly jealous of what Kim has, at what appears to be less effort. Most people don't like it when they see someone working half as hard and getting twice as much. Am I saying Kim actually works half as hard? Please, she works just as hard as Bonnie, she just appears to "float" through things without any effort (we know Kim works hard).
Another thing, we haven't seen much of her interaction with other characters in the show aside from Kim and Ron. How do we know that her animosity aren't only directed towards them, that there is some unspoken (maybe long forgotten by all parties) wrong she feels they have done to her, while she is "peaches and cream" to everybody else?
Agreed, it's not a free pass, I never said it was. My point along these lines is learned behavior that becomes habitual. Being surrounded by a certain mindset for your entire life leads you to believe that mindset (especially young impressionable child minds), it was obvious that this trend had already began by Middle School (cheer try-outs) leading me to believe that this isn't a "new" problem, but rather one that has been around for a while. And as most people watchers will tell you, over time certain behaviors become part of the sub-conscious and it takes a LOT of time and intentional effort to change those behaviors (this is usually only possible with someone supporting you every step of the way, which Bonnie lacks).
Ah, and I was hoping someone would bring this up, thank you lonestarr357. What about Connie and Lonnie, while I admit they aren't my favorite characters in the show, I actually have some sympathy for them too. I don't know their stories for sure, but either this is a product of their parents (which would also contribute to Bonnie's behavior) or they are a product of the "me generation" line of thought. Unfortunately, there is a trend in "popular culture" to place one's own interests above the needs and wants of those around you, and it has caused more problems in society than anything in the last 20 years IMO (but that's another topic for another thread). My point is, they are not the end-all, be-all answer to this issue, they are simply the first step (and the only one that is canonically shown) in determining Bonnie's behavior.
And let me reiterate again, this is not an excuse for her behavior. She is mean to Kim and Ron (but not evil), she has caused Kim a lot of headaches over the years, but that doesn't mean that she's unlikeable... does it?
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Haters
Aug 15, 2007 15:15:40 GMT -5
Post by The Yetimonster on Aug 15, 2007 15:15:40 GMT -5
Haha, lol - I've probably 'caused discomfort to anyone who's against a certain ship. ^^ The Ron/Nabusan ship?
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