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Aug 10, 2008 20:42:49 GMT -5
Post by Donne on Aug 10, 2008 20:42:49 GMT -5
I thought that Kim's part in the romance of StD was realizing that Ron actually WAS a guy... and maybe one that she loved. It was her perspective of him that changed. If a girl has a best guy friend, there are probably some limits set in the mind to look at that person as a friend and only as a friend. Some of Kim's mental barriers were broken toward the end of StD; that was what allowed her to see Ron as a romantic interest and let her get over not having a "trophy" boyfriend.
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Aug 10, 2008 22:08:43 GMT -5
Post by The Nine Tailed Smiley on Aug 10, 2008 22:08:43 GMT -5
You're right,but I'm starting to look at K/R from a different viewpoint lately.In my opinion(please don't hurt me),I think Kim and Ron need some space from eachother for a while.When Kim was dating Erric,Ron was desperate for her.That doesn't seem right to me.Yes,romance is all about being desperate for the other person...whatever.I personally feel that Kim should have been a little more desperate for Ron.The poor guy needs someone chasing him for a change!They need to chase eachother!That's what love is all about!The relationship they have now is a little too "reboundy" for my taste!I'm not saying that K/R won't work!No,not at all.I'm just saying that IMO,they needed to grow in their respect for eachother(mostly Kim's respect for Ron)a little more before beginning to date.Kim seemed so upset during "The Big Job" at Ron!Sure,he was immature,but do you think that maybe she was being immature too?She's a little too obsessed with statis,and,from what I've heard:College can change that,maybe college AWAY from eachother(don't immediately blow off the thought)
So,to conclude,I'm just saying that I still like K/R,but they needed to be friends longer.Dating is all about respect for the other person,and Kim seemed to have a lack of respect for Ron,but Ron ,at times,needed to grow up(Although,I would have picked up a crayon and colored with him during that date).They just need time away from eachother.That's why I'm all about them going to seperate colleges.I realize now that I can't change the fact that they have already started dating,but,for season 5,I might suggest seperate colleges. *runs from screaming K/R fans*
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Aug 11, 2008 3:34:33 GMT -5
Post by manofevil on Aug 11, 2008 3:34:33 GMT -5
*Dons Spartan armor, stops Smiley~THE BIRTHDAY GIRL~ and steps between her and screaming K/R fans* PERSIANS!!! COME TAKE MY WEAPONS!!! I like your point about Kim and Ron being a little reboundy, however I think Kim cultivated a deep rooted affection for Ron in Season 4. We saw it in 'Ill-Suited': At the end of 'The Big Job': And in 'Mad Dogs and Aliens': And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. The idea of separate colleges might be interesting for a few episodes (at least until Ron gets his grades up) and they were still able to make it work, somewhat in ASIT, but I wouldn't keep it that way for the whole season. Truthfully, I think Kim LIKES Ron the way he is, and she always did, only now she LIKE likes him the way he is. If Ron were to start going through any radical changes then he wouldn't be her Ron anymore. An interesting point about Kim: she never forgets anyone who saves her life. For example, The Tweebs saved her life in 'The Twin Factor', yet their juvenile stupidity nearly caused her to vanish from the face of the earth in 'Blush'. Kim's bond with Ron is likely along the same lines, but much deeper.
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Aug 12, 2008 0:40:56 GMT -5
Post by KillerBebe Obeys Zita on Aug 12, 2008 0:40:56 GMT -5
I was disappointed with the ending from STD, I felt to that it could have been handled better. The ending is fine for the shows target audience of 12 year olds, Kim and Ron find each other and start dating. My problem is that the way it was shown Ron really was nothing more than the rebound guy and he does not deserve that title to follow him for the rest of his life. I do agree that Kim has deep feelings for Ron but ( I ) can never be sure that this is what was meant to be, they were and are the best of friends and this is were the problem lays. Did Kim find her feelings for Ron because he was the one or because she was down on her self for being so fooled by the one she loved (he was fake an she didn’t know it) and settled for Ron when he revealed his feelings to her because she knew that he would be safe and never hurt her, just watch the scene again (she goes oh) and to me in a not so good way. Before the pounding starts and mister we know who starts screaming, remember that just because on this point I do not drink deep from the kool-aid means I do not love Kim any less that the people here, all who know me know this to be true. I felt all that they had to do was give it a stronger ending, not rushed and made to feel for me (well we’re at the end and we’re running out of time lets get them together here.) I have not seen anything that is to tell me that they are going to stay together forever, she was more ga-ga over Josh, chased and put her friendship with Monique at risk for Hiroki and I have yet to see Kim look at Ron the way she did at (don’t hit me for using his name) Eric. All through STD she was in lovey dovey mode with Eric and has yet to be the same with Ron, the most I’ve seen is an extension of their friendship, i.e. they’re no more than friends with benefits. I want t fifth season to resolve these issues, I want more than in the episode Clean Slate were she gave a resounding “I think I love” remember this is a canon quote - to bad they didn’t have her say “I love you” (that would have solved so many problems,) no one can say that she did not say this, many ignore this line and episode (like the first season) because it shows that if they were not friends since childhood Kim would not be dating Ron, it is only because of there deep friendship that she saw past all his flaws and excepted him as he is, (well after failing so many times to change him in the early shows.) and I believe she did this out of her love for her friend, to help him up the food chain and not to reshape him into her image. We can all banter back and forth on this and see things that are there or not to help prove or disprove certain points of the argument over this very sore subject.
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Aug 12, 2008 1:31:53 GMT -5
Post by yvj on Aug 12, 2008 1:31:53 GMT -5
I was disappointed with the ending from STD, I felt to that it could have been handled better. The ending is fine for the shows target audience of 12 year olds, Kim and Ron find each other and start dating. My problem is that the way it was shown Ron really was nothing more than the rebound guy and he does not deserve that title to follow him for the rest of his life. I do agree that Kim has deep feelings for Ron but ( I ) can never be sure that this is what was meant to be, they were and are the best of friends and this is were the problem lays. Did Kim find her feelings for Ron because he was the one or because she was down on her self for being so fooled by the one she loved (he was fake an she didn’t know it) and settled for Ron when he revealed his feelings to her because she knew that he would be safe and never hurt her, just watch the scene again (she goes oh) and to me in a not so good way. Before the pounding starts and mister we know who starts screaming, remember that just because on this point I do not drink deep from the kool-aid means I do not love Kim any less that the people here, all who know me know this to be true. I felt all that they had to do was give it a stronger ending, not rushed and made to feel for me (well we’re at the end and we’re running out of time lets get them together here.) I have not seen anything that is to tell me that they are going to stay together forever, she was more ga-ga over Josh, chased and put her friendship with Monique at risk for Hiroki and I have yet to see Kim look at Ron the way she did at (don’t hit me for using his name) Eric. All through STD she was in lovey dovey mode with Eric and has yet to be the same with Ron, the most I’ve seen is an extension of their friendship, i.e. they’re no more than friends with benefits. I want t fifth season to resolve these issues, I want more than in the episode Clean Slate were she gave a resounding “I think I love” remember this is a canon quote - to bad they didn’t have her say “I love you” (that would have solved so many problems,) no one can say that she did not say this, many ignore this line and episode (like the first season) because it shows that if they were not friends since childhood Kim would not be dating Ron, it is only because of there deep friendship that she saw past all his flaws and excepted him as he is, (well after failing so many times to change him in the early shows.) and I believe she did this out of her love for her friend, to help him up the food chain and not to reshape him into her image. We can all banter back and forth on this and see things that are there or not to help prove or disprove certain points of the argument over this very sore subject. You make good points. I can see where you're coming from and KB you may be one of the few kind of objective people in the fandom (though some to claim to be) The Kim/Ron thing ain't perfect but here's bit of my analysis if you are inclined to have it. Kim going ga-ga over the the pretty boys: If we look at 2 out of three of the guys Kim went ape over. (Josh, Hirotaka, Eric) we can see that she moved on from them very quickly. Josh for whatever reason and Hirotaka for her friendship with Monique or him choosing Bonnie IIRC. Either way she flat out acted flippantly afterward as if nothing peculiar happened. Like the whole thing was similar to the Oboyz fad. Call me biased but it seems to me after Kim has had time to reflect the pretty boys do not keep her interest. I believe the same would have happened with Eric in time. Not long after the Prom which was her highest priority after Bonnie's ribbing. Ron rebound or not? Has been discussed forever. I personally don't think he is. But then again I also don't think it matters either way since by the time Season 4 ends she's been dating Ron for at least a year. As with Ron and Kim appearing as nothing more than friends with benefits. I disagree (of course) and I'd ask you to consider the jealousy Kim has shown in terms of their relationship with Yori plus her frequent smiley faces more noticeably during "Odds Man in" Then we have Ron's "angst" issues at for example the first and last episodes in season 4. In addition to Homecoming Upset where he explains his feelings to Bonnie, and it couldn't get more blunt for Ron in Graduation. It's not Romeo and Juliet, I can see where some might find it lacking. I find it sufficient. I also agree that Kim and Ron had to have the friendship before they got together. Because through most of the show Kim was shallow and Ron well there's allot of reasons for Ron. Clean Slate I can give you my own thoughts but you've probably heard it all before. In the end I want a fifth season as well. I have no problem with the idea of solidifying Kim and Ron's relationship.
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Aug 12, 2008 11:21:29 GMT -5
Post by KillerBebe Obeys Zita on Aug 12, 2008 11:21:29 GMT -5
Thank you for the complement that I am even headed, I too enjoy your views on this wonderful show.
As you said Kim did move on quickly after her crushes over the pretty boys, (this is what teen girls have done since the beginning of time) and did not seem bothered at all when Josh began dating Tara but was more concerned at how Ron might take it. She was more concerned over his “emotional state” (excuse the pun) on his dealing with the same, but the gag was that he (like most guys) never noticed that Tara liked - liked him in the first place.
I would never call you biased, we are all some way biased but what i don't like is someone who will not have a debate and only states that their way is the only way.
We can disagree on the uses of the term “rebound guy” it was just the way they portrayed the way Ron revealed his feelings and Kim was just a little to matter of fact about it for me.
Yes I agree about Yori and I saw her as the biggest threat to the relationship and the others I have talked to about this do agree. Look at “Gorilla Fist” for example where Kim is “jelling” and all around her pick up on this, and how she follow Y & R around the world on there mission but always a step behind. Later on in the 4th season she makes a point of have Ron tell Yori that they are now a couple and gets “miffed” when he kind of drags his feet and then there was the whole girl to girl talk Kim and Yori had.
(Side note, I was disappointed in the handling of this, poor Ron couldn't even get from Yori a "I understand, but I thought we meant something to each other")
As with “Clean Slate” I can believe the reason behind the “I think I love you” was no more than that Disney’s S & P would not allow them to say “I love you” for reasons to lengthy to discuss here.
Graduation was just Ron’s jitters over the future and the uncertainty that it brings and his fears that they may grow apart, i.e. Kim goes away to school and continues her adventure through life while he is stuck in Middleton by the mailbox still waiting for a letter to come. I will say I see them as set with each other but as I said before they could have ended the show on a better note (but hey always remember the show biz ditty “always leave them wanting more”)
I end this by saying that we are both on the same path but disagree (if one can even call it that) over the semantics.
Note* to let you know if you were concerned, it was not you I was talking about when a said “mister you know who,” I would like to meet him one day but he kinda scares me.
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Aug 13, 2008 22:03:03 GMT -5
Post by danman007 on Aug 13, 2008 22:03:03 GMT -5
Ok....I actually was given this some thought as I ran through the thread. I wouldn't change anything, perhaps maybe re-insert the deleted scenes and add a James Bond-like gunbarrel to the opening.(I will continue to ask for this until it shows up in a Special Edition DVD of So the Drama) The one thing that I see that is a problem for most people is that Erik turns out to be a fraud.....well...can I say that was the point! I feel it was a conscious decision on Bob Schooley and Mark McCorkle’s part to make Erik a synthodrone for the mere fact that the 'Perfect Guy/Boyfriend' doesn't exist. That is Kim’s arc in So the Drama, Ron's arc is the emotional backbone for the story but it(the story as a whole) is equally both Kim and Ron's relationship. Bonnie set things off showing Kim no only does she not have a date but all the cheerleaders have hook up with 'high class' guys in the so-called 'foodchain'. Kim isn't all too worry about this important aspect of the Junior Prom til Bonnie brings up those facts and that her whoever is her date that night would make a 'statement'. Superficial...yes, even the best of us get deluded in the prospects of what is acceptable in front of our peers. Kim discusses the 'foodchain' issues and the option of having Ron as her date with two people that she feels she can be open with about the subject: Monique: Friend advice Mrs. Anne Possible: Motherly advice. Both capture Kim being played by Bonnie's High School society rules and ultimately it would seem all is better as Kim is about to put Bonnie's ideals aside. More likely she would/might have asked Ron to go with her to the Prom (Even if only as a friend), if Erik didn't show up. Enter, Erik, the new guy who seems to have interest in Kim the feeling seems mutual thus begins young romance and Ron's world crumbling around him. (I'll keep the subject on Kim.) Anne Possible is the first to notice Ron's depression; Kim doesn't take notice until after Ron has his break now on TV. This is when Kim tries to confront Ron about how he is feeling at the treehouse, completely parallel to the hallway scene where Ron does notice a depress Kim. They do discuss their relationship at the treehouse scene, Kim tries to reassure Ron that things will never change between them, and Ron knows this is not true. Calling Kim’s word ‘cute’ and denies the fact he is jealous. Note: Ron does not admit he has romantic feelings for Kim to himself until he is in his room deciding if he should go to the prom, he goes through the romantic interests that Kim has had through the years before coming to the conclusion that he does have romantic feelings for his best friend. Ultimately he skips the dance until he discovers Drakken’s plot and informs Kim. Kim is more less than enthusiastic when Erik asks her to be his date for the Junior Prom, she knows that her relationship with Erik is affecting hers with Ron but accepts his invitation because Erik seems to not be fazed by Kim’s globe trotting exploits, and he does look like the ‘perfect guy’. Erik, the guy is a synthodrone and that means he is not a real person. Not a real human being…some fans get upset by this fact when he is suppose to be the symbolization of what we all want “That Perfect Someone.” He is the reason why both Kim and Ron find their true feelings for one another. Kim’s emotions were manipulated and when Erik reveals his true colors it shatters the artificial relationship he had with Kim. That is what Kim/Erik’s ‘relationship’ was…Artificial. It was not real unlike her relationship with Ron, now that, that is real. In a way Kim had to be shown that the ‘perfect guy/boyfriend’ and the ‘foodchain’ are fake and do not exist. Ron admits his feelings; Kim sees her best friend in a different light and recognizes that there is something between her and Ron. The key moment is when Kim and Ron share their dance and first kiss at the Junior Prom, it helps that the song ‘Could It Be’ is sung by KP’s VA, Christy Romano, as her voice and the song’s lyrics connect it to Kim to what she is feeling at that moment…that she is in love with her best friend. Note: Kim and Ron do successfully defeat Drakken’s plot and save the world…Again. No Big, Right? I did watch So the Drama today so I was in the mood to put some input.
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Aug 14, 2008 12:20:55 GMT -5
Post by The Nine Tailed Smiley on Aug 14, 2008 12:20:55 GMT -5
*Dons Spartan armor, stops Smiley~THE BIRTHDAY GIRL~ and steps between her and screaming K/R fans* PERSIANS!!! COME TAKE MY WEAPONS!!! I like your point about Kim and Ron being a little reboundy, however I think Kim cultivated a deep rooted affection for Ron in Season 4. We saw it in 'Ill-Suited': At the end of 'The Big Job': And in 'Mad Dogs and Aliens': And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. The idea of separate colleges might be interesting for a few episodes (at least until Ron gets his grades up) and they were still able to make it work, somewhat in ASIT, but I wouldn't keep it that way for the whole season. Truthfully, I think Kim LIKES Ron the way he is, and she always did, only now she LIKE likes him the way he is. If Ron were to start going through any radical changes then he wouldn't be her Ron anymore. An interesting point about Kim: she never forgets anyone who saves her life. For example, The Tweebs saved her life in 'The Twin Factor', yet their juvenile stupidity nearly caused her to vanish from the face of the earth in 'Blush'. Kim's bond with Ron is likely along the same lines, but much deeper. *comes out from hiding place* Thank you! I agree!Ron shouldn't change that much!The reason he was(and is) my favorite character was because he didn't care about statis,how he looked,or what anyone else thought of him.He made me care less about those things too ;DThat's is why I'm slightly upset with K/R.Kim made Ron care about those things.I want to see Ron being successful in owning a restaurant because he loves to cook!I don't like Ron in a football uniform!It's not right!The Ron I fell in love with in the first three seasons is now some Homecoming King jock!What happened to Ron?Well,Kim "happened!" While it is true that Ron may have needed to grow up,it shouldn't have happened this way.Kim made it sound like his worth,and her love for him was based upon his statis.Yes,she dated him,but throughout it all there was always a quest to make Ron better.Was this all because of Kim?I will never know for sure,but the Ron in seaseons 1-3 was alot less statis-obsessed than he is now.I've even thought that in episodes lik "Oh No Yono" and "Graduation" that Ron was even on the borderline of being emo,and that's not "Ron" anymore! Please don't hate me for this.I'm just stating my opinion.If you disagree,then tell me kindly.If you agree then thank you!I still agree that K/R could work,but in a different way.They need to grow up some first.
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Aug 14, 2008 13:19:58 GMT -5
Post by lovethebeardkevin on Aug 14, 2008 13:19:58 GMT -5
Well it wasn't exactly kim who made Ron into a football star it was Ron being overdramatic to what Bonnie said he completely misunderstood when he was evesdropping on kim and monique about changing up(actually about moniques cell phone)so it wasn't kim who changed him. I can see why someone would think it was her because Ron did it to impress her but he changed himself by being his normal overdramatic self if that makes sense. But ya I do like the old Ron better he always cracked me up
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Aug 14, 2008 16:42:23 GMT -5
Post by manofevil on Aug 14, 2008 16:42:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't see at all what you guys are talking about. Ron was still the butt of every joke in school regardless of his accomplishments on the football field or anyplace else. He's still obsessed with Bueno Nacho, Smarty Mart, and the Mad Dog. He still doesn't drive a car. And he still runs around like a chicken with its head cut off when the fighting starts. I do NOT see him trying to embrace high school cool in any way. That in fact is one of the few redeeming qualities of the episode 'Grande Size Me'. We see that in spite of everything, he's still the same old Ron we've come to know and love. Indeed, a bit too much so... in more ways than one.
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