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Post by elvisjj on Jan 13, 2009 22:04:36 GMT -5
Alright YFWE before I answer your question on how the Fight For Five is winning let me tell you what the Fight For Five has done to keep Kim Possible's legacy alive and keep Kim Possible around. Now first of all Tony hit both some nerves here and got it so right. This has been going on here for a long time and it's the reason why so many diehard KP fans have left here in short they just got tired of how things just seem to happen here. This site is devoted to the love of Kim Possible and keeping her legacy alive. It's not about killing of Kim Possible just because some of you feel a fifth season is not necessary, it's not about never seeing anymore Kim Possible ever again. It's about preserving and lobbying to keep both her legacy alive and at the same time reminding Disney not to close the door on Kim Possible forever. Cause no matter how good a show is, once it's over, the fan base just disappears, as everything that can be said, has been said and there's nothing left to talk about if nothing new happens. Take a look at the buzz at the Futurama sites, as Futurama came back after how long? There's a triva question for all you naysayers out there? And it happened because of good DVD sales and because the Futurama fans, the true diehard Futurama fans never let the show completely die and always believed in their hearts that Futurama would some day come back. Those are the same dreams Kim Possible fans here should have, but most don't. Which again is up to each individual here, but trying to ridicule the Fight For Five doesn't do anything but weaken not just only the fan base fighting to save Kim Possible but any other fight out there to save other shows like Pushing Daisies, or Jericho, or Moonlight, Danny Phantom, Firefly, the 4400, or even American Dragon, Jake Long. Positive signs that the Fight For Five is regrouping in strength even comes to tv.com/Kim Possible where I first started. I've been there and new Kim Possible fans are coming to the Fight For Five there asking how they can help bring Kim Possible back. Now to answer YFWE's questions. 1) Remember those Kim Possible DVD's out there in G.E.R.M.A.N.Y. you think that happened by magic? Your welcome to believe that, but that was the Fight For Five lobbying non-stop to make it happen. 2) The Kim Possible showcase at Epcot Center it really would have happened without the Fight For Five? Just like Talespin and Rescue Rangers and Ducktales, Goof Troop, Recess and Gargoyles there all going to be getting a showcase at Epcot Center too, I mean it's coming for sure really, seriously. 3) Kim Possible at Disney's New Year's bash last year (2007) on Disney Channel. Kim Possible was the only animated series that you could vote for, sorry Replacements and the Emperor's new school, even American Dragon, Jake Long didn't make the cut which was sad though. But Kim Possible did. Of course the Fight For Five had nothing to do with that either. 4) The fact that Kim Possible is still talked about in the halls of the mouse doesn't count either and the fact that try as Disney has, they haven't completely been able to throw Kim Possible into that dark Disney vault just yet. But again it has nothing to do with the Fight For Five. 5) Just like the Boston Herald article by Tenley Woodman, which I don't even need to mention the buzz that did for Kim Possible, and the Fight For Five and that's just one of so many articles and publicity that Kim Possible has gotten. The fact Kim Possible is so alive can be seen just at Now Public .com as my articles aren't even advertised and look at the hits, and the hits just keep coming. People still interested in hearing and reading about the Fight For Five. my.nowpublic.com/culture/what-kim-possible-and-american-dragon-fans-wantmy.nowpublic.com/culture/nothing-impossible-kim-possible-fansThe point is simply. We haven't won the war, nor have we even kicked the doors down in the mouse's castle. But we've dug in and we had our charges, some retreats, some gains, some losses, but in the end we all knew this wasn't going to happen right away. As long as we dig in and we continue to let Disney know that we're out there. And we continue to make noises, and trust me this year we're going to make some amazing noise. Will alway remind Disney executives that Kim Possible is worth saving and that it's not her time to hit that Disney vault just yet.
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Post by YFWE on Jan 13, 2009 22:08:54 GMT -5
First of all, Julius, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I have been pressing Nicholas for an answer for the last few days and never got a good answer. I'm not going to ridicule you because you think that the FFF was responsible for these accomplishments. If you believe that, then power to you, whether it's true or not. I would, however, like to address at least one thing: I don't think the FFF was really responsible for the KP World Showcase attraction. Take this from me: I am a Walt Disney World nut. The attraction was, I am almost certain, on the drawing board before KP was cancelled. It's just recently been realized. (I mean, consider this: it's a rather high-tech project. The Imagineers have been working on this for years!) But other than that, if you want to see all of those achievements as helped by the FFF, more power to you, once again. I don't want to undermine what the FFF has achieved or says to have achieved. It's bound to happen that we, the FAF, look like a group created merely to suppress and to undermine the FFF's accomplishments. As evidenced, we've been called many things--some perhaps true, others not true at all. I'm here to tell you and the rest of the FFF that this is at least not my intent. I just really don't want a new season. And I know there's others out there that feel the same way. So that's why we're around: to provide those who feel that way with a group/organization just as the FFF has provided those with the opposing view such a group. Once again, thanks for the response. Much appreciated.
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Post by elvisjj on Jan 13, 2009 22:24:59 GMT -5
No bigs YFWE, Anna tells me your still part of the Fight to Save American Dragon, whether you are or not is up too you. But any cause against the Fight For Five just weakens any other cause greatly, (such as the Fight to Save American Dragon) as it does for all the other fans out there fighting to save their shows. An article you should check out is what you can do if you have the power like Viacom had to force Time-Warner into agreeing to a deal. We the Fight For Five don't have that kind of money or power to do so. All we have is the devotion to make things happen and to keep something we love alive. The article is below it makes for great reading. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28440958/?gt1=43001Now if we had that kind of power that Viacom had, then Kim Possible would already be back, but we don't. And neither does any other fan base out there. All they have is the strength of unity, to fight together. If a studio or network sees that the fans are divided it makes it even that much more easier for them to just ignore them. That's why we've been ignored for so long. I want all four seasons of Kim Possible released on DVD, that should have happened this Christmas, but it hasn't. And the Fight For Five will continue to fight to get all four seasons released on DVD for the North American market, as well as fighting for quality Kim Possible merchandise. Our next campaign is to hit up The Disney Stores and let them know we'd like to see quality Kim Possible merchandise in those stores.
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Post by YFWE on Jan 13, 2009 22:33:10 GMT -5
See, and I don't think anyone around here is opposed to boxsets, not even in the FAF. (Note why we're just the Fight Againast Five-we just don't want a fifth season. Boxsets we could certainly deal with.)
I wonder sometimes, though: don't you think boxsets would come eventually anyway? I mean, are you fighting because you think they'll never come or are you fighting because you want them sooner?
Because no one can dispute that KP is a classic. Disney's not going to avoid that down the road. Boxsets will come eventually. Just maybe not now.
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Post by ArtFan88 on Jan 13, 2009 23:26:53 GMT -5
Ok, I've been pretty cool about the FFF for a while. I respect that a lot of people want KP back. Shoot I used to be a fighter myself.
For some of you looking at this then looking at my other recent posts you must be going "yeah right you could NEVER have been with us in the FFF". Well I promise you guys, I was. In fact for a time I was really into it and believed in it. But then things began to decline and no matter how much myself and others tried it only got worse, so I left. While I hate to say it, and I don't want this to sound like an attack but I'm sure some will see it as one, I think the problem began when our own ElvisJJ here entered the picture.
It really pains me to read Julius's post actually cause it shows basically everything that went wrong and IS STILL wrong with what I feel at one point was a decent operation. Its a shame to see you guys get pulled down and not realize you're going down hard
Julius, I am going to ask you straight up; when are you going to stop lying to yourself, and more importantly, to the rest of these fighters? Ever since you came to this forum you have been promising these people everything; the return of KP, the salvation of Disney animation... Yet since then the FFF has been sinking like a led brick and yet no one wants to hear the truth about it. When one of us here on the outside tries to tell you how it really is you either ignore us or shoot us down.
Well now I must ask that you guys please just hear me out and really listen to whats to come here, because I feel its time I got something off my chest well as help you guys try to realize a few things about the FFF.
As I mentioned, I feel one of the biggest problems began with Julius. Before ElvisJJ here came to the forum the FFF was a strong, organized, and decently run operation. You guys could very well have made an impact on Disney if you had stayed on the path you were on with the people you had to help you. Then Julius came into the picture promising the world and more and more people began to get sucked into what he was saying and doing what he said until finally the FFF pretty much lost any organized foundation it might have had. Julius came in and took what was once a decently run, and competent operation and turned it into nothing more then a glorified spamming operation with no organization or direction, or sometimes even a purpose. "o we must attack disney, no mercy, SPAM SPAM SPAM!!!"
Like I said, it pains me to see that most of you guys took the bait and let the FFF become that. What I'm about to say next is going to be long and its going to be a bit frustrated in parts, but I feel I have to say it because I figure no one else will. If you want to exit the page you can but I just wanna ask that at least a few of you pay attention to what I'm saying and maybe take something away from it all.
Firstly, let me ask not just Julius but all of you in the FFF, what has this method of saving Kim; this major spamming; really gotten you? and I mean think realistically about this and think long and hard.
For the FFF on its own what have you guys achieved other then negative press from bloggers and angering a bunch of Disney execs? I've seen you guys try to sweep this stuff under the rug with words like "Oh we had just gotta find someone else to email, no harm done we're still ok" and "It was just a fluke, we'll get them eventually". I'm wondering why it is that you do this rather than se it for what it really is; the FFF that you guys love so much has degenerated to the point where its only upsetting the very people you want to get the attention of.
You try to use the fact that there's boxed sets (in GERMANY) and an upcoming attraction at Epcot to justify success that just isn't there. I don't want to offend any of you but the truth is, these things has little or NOTHING to do with the FFF. The spamming operation that the fight has become only pushes what little chances there might be of getting KP back farther away as you - more people off.
I just want to list some truths about some of the points Julius listed in his post up there in hoped that it may help you guys see what I'm talking about.
1) Boxed sets were released cause the fan base in GERMANY (not the US or anywhere else) wanted them and because Kim Possible is a very popular show over there. Disney took a chance not because of you people pushing them to it, but because there was a legit reason for doing it and making a decent profit. This is how business works, people, and its the cold hard truth. People like Julius will come in and try to get you to believe that this isn't how it works; that they "have to listen to the fans". Sorry but in the real world, money is gonna win over fan's whims EVERY TIME
2) The Epcot showcase. Did any of you ever consider that due to the fact that KP was a popular show during the peak of its run, Disney might want to make something out of it just because? You guys like to use this as one of your key points of success. Do any of you even know how long it takes for something like this to be developed? It takes YEARS. The attraction was on the drawing boards before season 3 even ended! LONG before the FFF or Julius or anyone even had a thought of "saving" the show. You guys did nothing to spur this thing on, I'm sorry. And on top of that, did anyone ever consider that the reason KP was picked over other "classic" Disney toons is because it actually has something to offer to Epcot, a WORLD showcase? Yeah "world" is emphasized; KP travels the "world", in Epcot you travel the "world". Is it really that of a stretch to picture some Imagineer a few years ago was sitting in his office saying "I know! We can make an attraction out of one of our currently (note, CURRENTLY, as in, just at that time)popular shows, Kim Possible that will add to the "world" showcase but also give people something fun to do!"
Does anyone here really think that they said "O I kno fans are sending so many emails wanting KP back lets make this attraction to show them we care! C8"
Once again, that's not now business works the real world works, people. Like I said, listen to these points cause as much as you may not want to accept what I'm saying as oppose to what someone like Julius has been telling you, this is the truth.
3) The reason KP was the the one up for vote in the New Years thing was because it was already a well established animated show that had just ended its newest season. Did no one else think of this at the time? It was getting enough attention based off that ALONE. There was no way shows like The Replacements or ADJL were going to make the cut, one because it was barely off the ground at the time, and the other because it was cut short and had ended well before this time. KP was in it because Disney had legit reasons for putting it there over others, similar to the sitch with the box sets, not because of the FFF.
4) News flash; ANY Disney show put on the air in the past 8 years or so is going to hang around for a while. The reason KP is still being talked about is, once again, because it was a popular show and it was on the air very recently compared to some others. And now that its ended, its going through the natural process that ALL shows go through and slowly moving back to make room for other shows. I hate to sound like a broken record here but THIS IS HOW THINGS WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. You guys have had nothing to do with anything going on with KPs current time slots and Disney has done nothing to try and force it out of existence as some of you are being led to think by certain people. Anyone who things like that has a warped way of thinking or is saying it just to manipulate.
5) That write up in the Bosten Herald was made BEFORE the FFF began to decline and I'm sure some of you guys know that. To me its sad that now its one of the only few things you have to cling on to in order to make yourselves think the FFF is working. Really, shame on Julius for even bringing it up and holding it over your heads like that. That was something that the FFF earned (and deservedly so at the time) before he even came along. I can dig through most of the old FFF threads and pull up articles or blogs that prove that since the Herald article, not one positive piece of media has surfaced about the FFF. Or at the very least, the negative far outweighs the positive. Its only gone downhill from there and its only going to continue going downhill unless you guys, as blunt as this will sound, pull your heads out of your butts and see the light.
Now for those that made it this far, some of you may be ready to kill me. But I promise you, everything I have said is more truth than you have been, or WILL be given in the FFF as it currently is. Its not an attack, I just saw a chance to try and explain to you guys how it really is from the point of view of someone who once believed in this fight as well. And if I can see the light I don't see why no one else can.
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Post by Lord FunkyHoof on Jan 13, 2009 23:44:37 GMT -5
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Post by atecom on Jan 13, 2009 23:51:27 GMT -5
Couldn't have put it better myself. Well then you too need to learn to make shorter posts. As does the entire FFF.
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Post by YFWE on Jan 13, 2009 23:52:24 GMT -5
Great post, Art.
Despite its length, I really do hope you all make an attempt to read it, whether you sympathize with the FAF, the FFF, or neither.
And I hope that from here on out, the arguments for or against his post (or other posts in the thread) can be civilized and not simply name-calling and "I'm better than you, but I'm not going to explain why, and I'm also a better KP fan"-type posts. I think Julius and I started that pretty well and I hope it'll continue because, frankly, I'd much rather have the conversation go this way.
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Post by atecom on Jan 14, 2009 0:02:05 GMT -5
Essentially it comes down to this....
If the FAF are as bratty to Disney about not returning the show as the FFF were about returning it, it would actually probably help the FFF...
Thats what it comes down to, less then a sentence, no need to read Artfans.
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Post by YFWE on Jan 14, 2009 0:04:45 GMT -5
Which we're not going to be, so no worries. We're not actually going to talk to Disney, I think that's what some people misunderstand. We're just a group a common belief. We don't plan to email anyone or send fortune cookies or anything of the sort.
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Post by Captain Serge Stiles on Jan 14, 2009 0:08:04 GMT -5
Essentially it comes down to this.... If the FAF are as bratty to Disney about not returning the show as the FFF were about returning it, it would actually probably help the FFF... Thats what it comes down to, less then a sentence, no need to read Artfans. Except for the fact that that's not what Art's post was about at all. ...or any of our posts, for that matter. Way to stay on the ball.
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Post by atecom on Jan 14, 2009 0:12:12 GMT -5
Which only furthers my point, no need to read artfans
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Post by Captain Serge Stiles on Jan 14, 2009 0:20:32 GMT -5
If you actually give a damn about what's being discussed, I think you should.
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Post by atecom on Jan 14, 2009 0:21:13 GMT -5
If you actually give a da mn about what's being discussed, I think you should. If you actually give a darn about staying awake during the discussion, i think you shouldn't.
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Post by Captain Serge Stiles on Jan 14, 2009 0:23:36 GMT -5
Well, then I think you should read it. Good night.
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Post by eddybob15 on Jan 14, 2009 0:29:38 GMT -5
Which we're not going to be, so no worries. We're not actually going to talk to Disney, I think that's what some people misunderstand. We're just a group a common belief. We don't plan to email anyone or send fortune cookies or anything of the sort. Well, I'm glad you don't plan to talk to Disney about ignoring what FFF has said to them (like they need help doing that), but if you're not going to do anything, why'd you form a group?
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Post by YFWE on Jan 14, 2009 0:34:39 GMT -5
Because like I said, it's just a group with a common belief. I mean, you have, say, fanclubs for certain causes where people with similar hobbies, beliefs, views, etc can come in and talk about the topic or whatever. It's the best way I can explain it as: we're a group for people who don't want a new season. We don't plan to actually DO anything, we're just here to voice our opinion(s). If you agree with us, cool! If you don't, that's cool too. No one said you had to.
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Post by slicknickshady on Jan 14, 2009 0:52:00 GMT -5
Ok, I've been pretty cool about the FFF for a while. I respect that a lot of people want KP back. Shoot I used to be a fighter myself. For some of you looking at this then looking at my other recent posts you must be going "yeah right you could NEVER have been with us in the FFF". Well I promise you guys, I was. In fact for a time I was really into it and believed in it. But then things began to decline and no matter how much myself and others tried it only got worse, so I left. While I hate to say it, and I don't want this to sound like an attack but I'm sure some will see it as one, I think the problem began when our own ElvisJJ here entered the picture. It really pains me to read Julius's post actually cause it shows basically everything that went wrong and IS STILL wrong with what I feel at one point was a decent operation. Its a shame to see you guys get pulled down and not realize you're going down hard Julius, I am going to ask you straight up; when are you going to stop lying to yourself, and more importantly, to the rest of these fighters? Ever since you came to this forum you have been promising these people everything; the return of KP, the salvation of Disney animation... Yet since then the FFF has been sinking like a led brick and yet no one wants to hear the truth about it. When one of us here on the outside tries to tell you how it really is you either ignore us or shoot us down. Well now I must ask that you guys please just hear me out and really listen to whats to come here, because I feel its time I got something off my chest well as help you guys try to realize a few things about the FFF. As I mentioned, I feel one of the biggest problems began with Julius. Before ElvisJJ here came to the forum the FFF was a strong, organized, and decently run operation. You guys could very well have made an impact on Disney if you had stayed on the path you were on with the people you had to help you. Then Julius came into the picture promising the world and more and more people began to get sucked into what he was saying and doing what he said until finally the FFF pretty much lost any organized foundation it might have had. Julius came in and took what was once a decently run, and competent operation and turned it into nothing more then a glorified spamming operation with no organization or direction, or sometimes even a purpose. "o we must attack disney, no mercy, SPAM SPAM SPAM!!!" Like I said, it pains me to see that most of you guys took the bait and let the FFF become that. What I'm about to say next is going to be long and its going to be a bit frustrated in parts, but I feel I have to say it because I figure no one else will. If you want to exit the page you can but I just wanna ask that at least a few of you pay attention to what I'm saying and maybe take something away from it all. Firstly, let me ask not just Julius but all of you in the FFF, what has this method of saving Kim; this major spamming; really gotten you? and I mean think realistically about this and think long and hard. For the FFF on its own what have you guys achieved other then negative press from bloggers and angering a bunch of Disney execs? I've seen you guys try to sweep this stuff under the rug with words like "Oh we had just gotta find someone else to email, no harm done we're still ok" and "It was just a fluke, we'll get them eventually". I'm wondering why it is that you do this rather than se it for what it really is; the FFF that you guys love so much has degenerated to the point where its only upsetting the very people you want to get the attention of. You try to use the fact that there's boxed sets (in GE RMANY) and an upcoming attraction at Epcot to justify success that just isn't there. I don't want to offend any of you but the truth is, these things has little or NOTHING to do with the FFF. The spamming operation that the fight has become only pushes what little chances there might be of getting KP back farther away as you - more people off. I just want to list some truths about some of the points Julius listed in his post up there in hoped that it may help you guys see what I'm talking about. 1) Boxed sets were released cause the fan base in GER MANY (not the US or anywhere else) wanted them and because Kim Possible is a very popular show over there. Disney took a chance not because of you people pushing them to it, but because there was a legit reason for doing it and making a decent profit. This is how business works, people, and its the cold hard truth. People like Julius will come in and try to get you to believe that this isn't how it works; that they "have to listen to the fans". Sorry but in the real world, money is gonna win over fan's whims EVERY TIME 2) The Epcot showcase. Did any of you ever consider that due to the fact that KP was a popular show during the peak of its run, Disney might want to make something out of it just because? You guys like to use this as one of your key points of success. Do any of you even know how long it takes for something like this to be developed? It takes YEARS. The attraction was on the drawing boards before season 3 even ended! LONG before the FFF or Julius or anyone even had a thought of "saving" the show. You guys did nothing to spur this thing on, I'm sorry. And on top of that, did anyone ever consider that the reason KP was picked over other "classic" Disney toons is because it actually has something to offer to Epcot, a WORLD showcase? Yeah "world" is emphasized; KP travels the "world", in Epcot you travel the "world". Is it really that of a stretch to picture some Imagineer a few years ago was sitting in his office saying "I know! We can make an attraction out of one of our currently ( note, CURRENTLY, as in, just at that time)popular shows, Kim Possible that will add to the "world" showcase but also give people something fun to do!" Does anyone here really think that they said "O I kno fans are sending so many emails wanting KP back lets make this attraction to show them we care! C8" Once again, that's not now business works the real world works, people. Like I said, listen to these points cause as much as you may not want to accept what I'm saying as oppose to what someone like Julius has been telling you, this is the truth. 3) The reason KP was the the one up for vote in the New Years thing was because it was already a well established animated show that had just ended its newest season. Did no one else think of this at the time? It was getting enough attention based off that ALONE. There was no way shows like The Replacements or ADJL were going to make the cut, one because it was barely off the ground at the time, and the other because it was cut short and had ended well before this time. KP was in it because Disney had legit reasons for putting it there over others, similar to the sitch with the box sets, not because of the FFF. 4) News flash; ANY Disney show put on the air in the past 8 years or so is going to hang around for a while. The reason KP is still being talked about is, once again, because it was a popular show and it was on the air very recently compared to some others. And now that its ended, its going through the natural process that ALL shows go through and slowly moving back to make room for other shows. I hate to sound like a broken record here but THIS IS HOW THINGS WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. You guys have had nothing to do with anything going on with KPs current time slots and Disney has done nothing to try and force it out of existence as some of you are being led to think by certain people. Anyone who things like that has a warped way of thinking or is saying it just to manipulate. 5) That write up in the Bosten Herald was made BEFORE the FFF began to decline and I'm sure some of you guys know that. To me its sad that now its one of the only few things you have to cling on to in order to make yourselves think the FFF is working. Really, shame on Julius for even bringing it up and holding it over your heads like that. That was something that the FFF earned (and deservedly so at the time) before he even came along. I can dig through most of the old FFF threads and pull up articles or blogs that prove that since the Herald article, not one positive piece of media has surfaced about the FFF. Or at the very least, the negative far outweighs the positive. Its only gone downhill from there and its only going to continue going downhill unless you guys, as blunt as this will sound, pull your heads out of your butts and see the light. Now for those that made it this far, some of you may be ready to kill me. But I promise you, everything I have said is more truth than you have been, or WILL be given in the FFF as it currently is. Its not an attack, I just saw a chance to try and explain to you guys how it really is from the point of view of someone who once believed in this fight as well. And if I can see the light I don't see why no one else can. You are full of it. You sound so scared. No bigs YFWE, Anna tells me your still part of the Fight to Save American Dragon, whether you are or not is up too you. But any cause against the Fight For Five just weakens any other cause greatly, (such as the Fight to Save American Dragon) as it does for all the other fans out there fighting to save their shows. WOW, YFWE is a walking hypocrite. Shocking.
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Post by atecom on Jan 14, 2009 0:52:53 GMT -5
Well done YFWE, Im proud of you
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Post by YFWE on Jan 14, 2009 0:59:45 GMT -5
I'm a walking hypocrite? Eh, not really, actually. Just because he asked if I was still in it doesn't mean I am. To be honest, I never really was, per se, I just kinda went to some of the rallies to see what they were thinking up. Close, though. You almost had me, I must commend you!
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