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Post by colin glencannon on Oct 19, 2005 16:00:35 GMT -5
I would say Ron simply lacks focus. He will in all liklihood be one of those folks who discovers something that really grabs him, probably in college, then goes on to excel in his field. He has demonstrated bursts of near genius intellect when something has caught his attention or he's been forced to perform. His skill when he is on solo missions is formidable, probably on par with Kim and even greater in some instances. High school and it's cliques and stratification, for most of us, becomes progressively less relevant with each passing year once we're out. From my own life the majority of the popular kids are doing things like pumping gas and selling used cars these days while many of the kids who were farther down the "food chain" are in positions of responsibility and leadership within their various fields. Loser, no, insufficiently motivated or challenged, yes.
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Post by Aedan on Oct 19, 2005 16:25:08 GMT -5
I think that the only people that think Ron is a loser in the show are the school bullies. In their definition anyone that is not as populat as them or one of their groupies is a loser. The majority of people in school are average and Ron is one of them. He is the school mascot and everyone cheers for him during his performances. Kids in high school don't generally cheer for losers, no matter what they do. Tara pretty openly likes him and the rest of the squad (barring Bonnies) doesn't seem to mind him being around as long as he isn't slobbering. Ron seems comfortable talking to practically anyone in school, and I can tell you that is unusual in someone who has been ostracised. Also at the end of So the Drama, his class cheers when he and Kim walk in and they are dating. A few mean people can make a person feel like a loser sometimes, but they are the minority.
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Post by taechunsa on Oct 19, 2005 17:22:54 GMT -5
I think that the only people that think Ron is a loser in the show are the school bullies. In their definition anyone that is not as populat as them or one of their groupies is a loser. The majority of people in school are average and Ron is one of them. He is the school mascot and everyone cheers for him during his performances. Kids in high school don't generally cheer for losers, no matter what they do. Tara pretty openly likes him and the rest of the squad (barring Bonnies) doesn't seem to mind him being around as long as he isn't slobbering. Ron seems comfortable talking to practically anyone in school, and I can tell you that is unusual in someone who has been ostracised. Also at the end of So the Drama, his class cheers when he and Kim walk in and they are dating. A few mean people can make a person feel like a loser sometimes, but they are the minority. That is exactly the impression that I have formed of late. I don't think that many people (characters in the show) consider him a loser at all.
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 19, 2005 19:11:03 GMT -5
Bonnie considers Ron a loser and says so rather frequently.
Drakken almost never remembers Ron's name, and calls him "The Buffoon."
In "The New Ron," Ron is called a loser by Amelia when he goes back to his old look.
In "Mind Games," there's the D-hall gang.
In "Crush," Ron is completely unable to get a date with anyone, even the girls who are rather plain-looking.
In "Ron the Man," Mr. Barkin says Ron is small and weak and gets rescued by a girl, which amounts to being a loser in Barkin's value system.
In "The Ron Factor," we know Kim's reaction to the Global Justice Study.
In "Grudge Match," Kim and Monique both seem to think Ron has no chance with Zita. When Ron tries to ask her for a date (the microphone's turned off), what he says seems to indicate he considers himself a loser.
In "Naked Genius," Kim says, "Did I miss the ladies?" when Ron was probably referring to Zita, as if this never happened.
In "Golden Years," the college girls pass around pamphlets labeling him a loser. He talks about his "socially challenged" reputation.
In "Return to Wannaweep," Ron is repeatedly pelted with vegetables by people chanting "loser, loser."
There's rather less of this stuff as time goes on, and rather more examples of Ron enjoying transitory popularity, such as "The Truth Hurts."
Tara and Hope could have called Ron a loser behind his "Bad Boy" pretensions, but instead just say, "That's just ewww, Ron."
By the end of "So the Drama," it's pretty much just Bonnie and Erik calling Ron a loser. Who cares what a synthodrone thinks, or is programmed to say? And the applause shows how alone in her opinion Bonnie is by this time.
But obviously, Kim's opinion about this question is a very big part of the series. She refuses to call Ron a loser. "He's not a loser, he's just different," she tells Bonnie in "Killer Bebes. But Kim, fairly often, and much as I believe she loves him all along, acts like she considers him a loser, saying things like, "You and I on a date?!!" "Did I miss the ladies?" "Those of us who can actually get dates."
When Kim changes her mind about Ron, circa the time of "Blush" and "Exchange," she's already contributed a lot to the ego damage, which all the love she shows him in season 3 isn't quite enough to overcome. Only when Kim calls herself a loser in the Bueno Nacho headquarters storeroom, does Ron finally step up and say, in effect, you're no loser, and I'm not either.
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Post by taechunsa on Oct 20, 2005 12:43:48 GMT -5
Thanks Cloud, this was what I was looking for.
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Post by Colin Glencannon on Oct 20, 2005 13:25:40 GMT -5
I have trouble imagining her taking him with her on missions if she actually thought of him as a loser. Plus the other kids don't seem to actively avoid or disparage him unless he does something to provoke a reaction. With the exception of a handful (Bonnie, the D wing hoods, some of the football team) he seems to be at least tolerated if not accepted. Kind of hard to gauge how he reponds to it, since he seems to operate in his own dimension most of the time. I really wouldn't quantify lack of social success as being a loser. I've had a number of buddies who were a lot like Ron, goofy and unfocused most of the time, but effective when they needed to be. I don't think anyone thought of them as losers, just usually unmotivated. The overall impression I'm left with is that even if others think of him that way he doesn't notice, or care, much. Beyond the odd foray at dates he pretty much keeps his own frame of reference, although his statement about the high school as re-education center in ASIT (apparently Shigo took some cues from a number of communist countries in forging her own dictatorship) would lead one to think the overall highschool environment registers from time to time. We rarely see Ron (or Kim for that matter) interact with anyone outside a fairly small group for the bulk of the series. It would be interesting to have had a couple of shows that included more of their day to day life and just having fun. We get snippets in the form of the fair, ski trip, Zombipalooza and a few others but most of the shows have been mission centric. "'This Ring, no other, is made by the elves Who'd pawn their own mother to grab it themselves. Ruler of creeper, mortal, and scallop, This is a sleeper that packs quite a wallop. The Power almighty rests in this Lone Ring. The Power, alrighty, for doing your Own Thing. If broken or busted, it cannot be remade. If found, send to Sorhed (the postage is prepaid.)" Beard and Kenney Bored of the Rings
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 20, 2005 15:51:47 GMT -5
This is where it gets deep. She never says precisely this, but...
Kim's remarks to Ron about his attempts with other girls, pre-season 3, suggest she considers him less than successful in this arena. Winning or losing at love is what most of the "loser" remarks I list above are about. This wouldn't be relevant to his missions with Kim.
As a sidekick, assistant, or partner, Kim's estimation of Ron rises steadily from "The Ron Factor" through "A Sitch in Time," by which point she seems to accept the Ron Factor theory. In other words, she's not always sure exactly how having Ron around benefits her own efforts, but she's not sure she can succeed without him, because she knows on the whole things go better with him there, despite occasional mishaps (such as, he falls on top of her and someone gets away).
A large part of this may be the enthusiasm and emotional support Ron gives Kim whenever she has doubts about herself.
I hope that after "So the Drama" Kim will realize what a rare and wonderful companion she has, and throw some encouragement his way. Despite the occasional ego overinflation, he does need it.
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Post by Forlong on Oct 20, 2005 16:14:47 GMT -5
Ron is a real loser in season 1. He gets picked on, ignored, and put down. Even Kim doesn't treat him to well. This changes in season 2. Ron gets insulted less and less. Eventually, Bonnie is the only person insulting him, and look where it gets her. Near the end of season 2 and all through season 3, none of the other cheerleaders hang out with Bonnie. I'd say that's a hint that Ron is becomign more popular.
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Post by jmt2005791 on Oct 20, 2005 16:19:28 GMT -5
i agree ron does become more popular in his own goofy "never be normal" style as time goes along. this is also probably coupled with the fact everyone enjoys his mad dog thing plus people are starting to realize there's something between kim and ron even if they won't admitt it.
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Post by Colin Glencannon on Oct 20, 2005 17:04:10 GMT -5
"Kim's remarks to Ron about his attempts with other girls, pre-season 3, suggest she considers him less than successful in this arena. Winning or losing at love is what most of the "loser" remarks I list above are about. This wouldn't be relevant to his missions with Kim."
I guess the big question then is how much weight does this aspect of his life carry with him (not trying to start anything, it's just sort of an interesting question)? For some folks this is big stuff and largley how they define themselves, for others it's just one of, and sometimes a very minor, many aspects of their lives. With Ron it doesn't seem to take on a huge importance until StD, when he does get concerned with it. It raises the question of how would things have proceeded if he hadn't had to deal with a real competitor? Josh never seemed to illicit much of a response. Perhaps Ron always viewed him as a transient crush? This seems especially likely if October 31 is chronologically after Blush and Crush (sound like a law firm; there is an outfit up here called Binder and Binder, every time I hear their ads, the first thought that comes to mind is "The law firm of Bender, Bender, Fry and Zoidberg). It strikes me that, until the tag end of the last season, Ron approaches the whole thing rather casually. More in the spirit of idle curiosity than with any degree of urgency. It sounds like he and Kim went to a lot of dances together, kind of makes one wonder if other girls weren't assuming the two were dating or were just intimidated by Kim. Most of my Ron-like friends seemed to be able to at least socialize with girls at casual events, even if that's as far as it went. As I said, I'm left with the feeling that the loser thing, as far as romance goes, is more a function of it's place in one's world view than whether or not one is genrally defined as a loser on that basis. "What's the matter, you ... want to live forever?" Sgt. Dan Daily USMC, Battle of the Marne, WWI
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Post by Azurice on Oct 21, 2005 6:48:27 GMT -5
I sometimes wonder if people actually read my posts. Maybe a larger font will help. ;D I am not calling Ron a loser. I do not think he is a loser. I was looking for examples of if or when characters refer to Ron as a loser.Now maybe we can all get past the "I don't think Ron is a loser" posts. I don't really think that anyone on the boards would consider Ron a loser. I was refering to the characters on the show. I'm pretty sure people only took note of my last post...And that I thought out my others really hard and they count as an analysis to me. Sorta. I was so sure I was answering your first post. Hehe, I'm so slow sometimes. My question is why do we as the viewers have the impression that Ron is really considered a loser at school?"That's like me and probably why I relate to Ron so much. I've been considered a loser pretty much my entire life because I was different and I never changed or tried to fit in. But this year everyone seemed to have wised up or something, maybe because next year is our last year of highschool and now the "Food Chain" (or our equivalent) no longer exists. Maybe that doesn't happen in KP because it is a cartoon and Ron's loser status may be exaggerated." Or, in other words; because I can relate to him as my character is the same as his and in my own experience, being the same as Ron generally means you are a loser. So, what real evidence do we really have that Ron is considered a loser at school?"I can't think of anyone other than Bonnie and a few of Middleton High's bullies that consider him a loser. I guess it just depends on how he's acting (and/or his attitude) at the time; in Bad Boy Tara and the other cheerleader reacted to his bad boy act as if he were a loser, but usually they think he's just funny." Adding to that, when Ron is being honest (As we see from Truth Hurts) he's quite the opposite to being a loser in the eyes of the other students. I get the feeling that not many people actually think of Ron as a loser, just the influential students like Bonnie. Sorry if I was too general, I'm not really good at this thing. I'm probably just embarrassing myself and repeating what I said earlier. Actually, wait, I am repeating. Ah well.
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 21, 2005 12:28:19 GMT -5
The whole "loser" stigma, as applied to Ron by Middleton High characters (and Drakken and Shego), seems to be mostly about romantic desirability, if you go back to my list on page 2. It's the girls he's trying to impress who are most inclined to label him this way.
If this wasn't a matter of some importance to Ron, how to you explain his behavior in "The New Ron," "Crush," "Grudge Match," "Vir-to-Ron," "Golden Years," "Triple S," and, apparently, "Molerat"? Yes, the express ticket to hottieville isn't Ron's only concern, but he's not exactly a disinterested bystander.
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Post by taechunsa on Oct 21, 2005 14:03:43 GMT -5
Great points all.
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Post by Colin Glencannon on Oct 21, 2005 14:52:36 GMT -5
Well takne. Although I sometimes wonder how much of this, and other things, in the series is a gentle ribbing of things like "teen angst" flicks among other things. The satire of spy and super hero movies is pretty obvious, not to mention declared by the crew.
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Post by Winterfrost on Oct 22, 2005 7:34:03 GMT -5
.......................................wow.............how can you guys come up with arguments and points so valid?
Oh I forgot, everyone here watched almost every episode *grumble* I must've watched only 18...............
Off topic a bit, does anyone know if there's Disney Channel in Australia, particularly Melbourne?
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Post by Azurice on Oct 22, 2005 8:17:10 GMT -5
.......................................wow.............how can you guys come up with arguments and points so valid? Oh I forgot, everyone here watched almost every episode *grumble* I must've watched only 18............... Off topic a bit, does anyone know if there's Disney Channel in Australia, particularly Melbourne? Yeah, there is. And I'm certain there's one in Melbourne since Foxtel/Austar is nationwide. Eh, sorry to stray even further off topic.
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Post by KPlady on Nov 13, 2005 21:46:52 GMT -5
I would'nt call Ron a loser.I meen sure he's clumsy,but in a very weird sort of way,when Kim is introuble,Ron alwase comes to the rescue and (in a goofy way),he saves her.Kim couldn't save the world without him!If he wasn't clumsy,and goofy,he woudn't be Ron
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Post by surforst on Nov 13, 2005 22:44:11 GMT -5
Your question about if the school children consider Ron a loser I'd say yes. Reasons why.
1. Ron only friend it appears is Kim(Monique is a package deal with her so doesn't count) and Felix whose popularity is unknown. Thats all I've ever seen. Two friends only kinda states your popularity status.
2. Ron can't get a date to save his life in the episode where Kim goes with Josh to the dance. Not one. That should show where he is in the food chain. In fact some of the girls look disgusted whenever he ask them out. Pretty damning there.
3. Ron self image is of himself as a loser. Got to be based on something.
4. Kim in a StD seemed to buy into the bit where Ron is a loser *whole food chain bit*. If he wasn't one how could she?
That summed up says to me that Ron is viewed as a social loser. Then again he does seem to have some luck with the ladies so Ron's got potential. No question there. He got a cheerleader to fall in love with him, another cheerleader to crush on him, a ninja to crush on him, and a gamer chick to crush on him. For some of them he didn't even do much. Which goes to show Ron's image as a loser is unfair and hey High School is harsh at time. Part of life and all that stuff.
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Post by dragoonbigl on Nov 13, 2005 22:52:24 GMT -5
been couple years since i've been in school but I get this feeling from my sibblings and then just highschoolers I'm friends with, that the traditional castes that existed in highschool have kinda deteriorated.
Being a loser or geek, or nerd or a jock, as far as i can tell isnt as important anymore. Infact as far as I've witnessed being "weird" is kind the new thing.
Can anyone in school confirm this?
I mean whatching television, theres alot of things that have been changing our society. Reality TV for instance has really closed the gap. the lines between what is a what isnt accepted have been broken and thinned down so much its kinda a whole different ball of wax anymore
if i'm totally off on this let me know....Maybe I'm just in different enough stage of life that I'm oblivious to highschool people anymore. *shrug* I guess I've kinda gotten past the whole labeling people as cool or losers...pretty much everyone falls into "I like" "tolerable" or "I don't like" anymore..No one really gets labeled a loser in my mind.
Anyone with coments on just what makes someone a loser anymore? lol
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Post by Dr.Bob on Nov 15, 2005 16:42:31 GMT -5
I don't know if Ron is a loser or not.But thanks to him i remembered who i'm ( and Drakken contributed too ). Thanks P.S:I know that this post isn't created for say this, I'm sorry but i ned say this. P.S2:If someone remove my post i will understand.
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