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Post by Guru Mandi (will return) on Oct 1, 2007 13:25:57 GMT -5
I cried when I saw this in the promo: I loved that pic. It made the whole sitch of Graduation even more realistic.
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Post by swenlin on Oct 1, 2007 15:18:58 GMT -5
This message was deleted by the original poster.
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 1, 2007 17:15:09 GMT -5
I cried when I saw this in the promo: I loved that pic. It made the whole sitch of Graduation even more realistic. its cute! my mom would be flooding the whole towm, though lol
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Post by DP on Oct 1, 2007 23:00:11 GMT -5
This message was deleted by the original poster. Brain Swenlin deleted a post?! When will these VIPs stop messing with our heads?
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 6, 2007 10:35:22 GMT -5
AW! i wanted to see it!
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Post by tiina on Oct 6, 2007 11:10:10 GMT -5
they really like to mess with our heads....
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 6, 2007 11:19:37 GMT -5
i know! & its working
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Post by Guru Mandi (will return) on Oct 6, 2007 11:29:18 GMT -5
This message was deleted by the original poster. Brain Swenlin deleted a post?! When will these VIPs stop messing with our heads? Oh, why Brian, WHY?!!!
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Post by tiina on Oct 6, 2007 11:33:01 GMT -5
Maybe only to make us to ask tha questio. .what a cruel plan..i bet he's been working with it long..
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 6, 2007 17:21:23 GMT -5
probably to cause suspense lol... lets not dwell on it..
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Post by mrmatt on Oct 13, 2007 14:04:47 GMT -5
I'm really glad Mr. Swelin posted that information about the development of Graduation. I really enjoyed the final myself. I'm personally glad they didn't bring Monkey Fist back it would have made everything really busy. Besides look at all the fun we had speculating about just his statue being at the UN and in the Coffee shop during the credits!
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 13, 2007 15:09:43 GMT -5
lol, good points! fun fun fun
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Post by DP on Oct 16, 2007 12:35:36 GMT -5
It's been quite a while since Graduation aired, and I've realized that my opinion of this episode has changed a bit, and not only that but I also now acknowledge that in my original review there were a lot of negative thoughts about the finale that I was holding back because I was initially happy about the airing of the episode. I did some thinking last night, and decided to return and review Graduation a second time, now that I've seen it a couple more times, and I've realized exactly what I like and don't like about it.
I'll start with the good. Just about everything about Kim and Ron's graduation plot---the build-up, the emotion, the tying it into the villain plot, and the eventual wrap-up, was extremely well-done. There was nothing left to be desired in that part of the plot and I felt the writers did a terrific job with that. In addition to that, the characters, every single one of them, performed brilliantly in the situation they were dealt. Each of the characters was funny, loveable and in-character and they each made the most of the plot in which they were stuck. Overall, the episode did have a lot of action, a lot of humor, some character development, and most of all, it was packed with the type of emotion that reaches out to hardcore fans like us. It was not a bad episode at all. I loved it. I'd watch it again anytime and enjoy it just as much. But unfortunately, it was by no means perfect.
And that brings me to the bad points of the episode that I was avoiding mentioning last time. First of all, sadly, it did not live up to my expectations. It was very action-packed and exciting, but not nearly as much so as I was expecting. As many before me have stated, So the Drama outdid this one in terms of action, and you can't blame the time constraint on that because I'm talking about the quality of the action. The type of action that gets you on the edge of your seat. I was closer to the edge of my seat at the beginning of part 2 when Kim got abducted than during the actual battle.
And that brings me to my next point: The Lorwardians. I love Warmonga and Warhok, I love them for who they are and wouldn't want them to be anything else. But the thing is, we were promised a Darth Vader-type villain, and Warhok just didn't fit the bill for that. Like I said, though, I do not by any means blame the character. I think that if Warhok got a little more screen-time, and had had the focus shifted towards him instead of there being equal focus on him and Warmonga, then he most certainly could have pulled it off. But sadly, he didn't. And sadly, the threat posed by the Lorwardian tech wasn't nearly as imminent as I was hoping either. Drakken's Diablo army was still scarier than those alien walkers, I'm sorry. And to conclude my dissatisfaction regarding the Lorwardians, I was not at all pleased that they were killed off. Steve Loter once said that a villain would never be killed on KP because "that's not what KP is about." And he was right. It didn't seem true to the heart of KP at all for Warmonga and Warhok to be killed. Rest in peace, both of you.
Now I come to my second biggest complaint of all: the unexplored character relationships. Drakken/Kim, Ron/Shego, Kim/Shego, Ron/Drakken. The team-up between the four of them presented such a great opportunity to develop each of the relationships I mentioned above. And although each of those pairs did have entertaining exchanges and interactions with one another, absolutely no progress was made except for Drakken admitting that Kim is a worthy foe and is indeed all that (leave it to Drakken to be the only one who makes progress ;D ). I was expecting Kim and Drakken to realize what they have in common and start respecting each other more, but no---Kim must have made a million cracks about how doubtful she was about Drakken being able to save the world. She should have had faith in him. That would be progress in the Drakken/Kim relationship. And in Ron/Shego: very hilarious. I loved every bit of it, but again, those two have so much in common, and now they'll never have a chance to realize it. Ron/Drakken: these two are always entertaining, but it wasn't like AVPC where they actually connected and became friends, even if temporarily. And then last but not least, Kim/Shego: the end of Stop Team Go, I feel, was painfully obviously hinting at a reconciliation between these two. And there was nothing. The only thing that came close was Kim PDPing to leave Shego with clean-up duty. So, in conclusion, what irks me the most here is that they had a chance to develop these uncommon relationships between the four main characters, and they wasted all their development on the two relationships that are already developed quite enough, thank you: Kim/Ron and Drakken/Shego.
And that brings me to my last point. The finale was much too heavily focused on Kim and Ron. Even though Drakken and Shego played an important role, it didn't seem like they did. Both of those characters deserved a better send-off than what they got. Shego, first of all, is a very complex character, especially in season 4. There were a lot of questions to be answered about her that never were. Season 4 seemed to be foreshadowing a major change for her character in the finale and it wasn't. The only thing that changed about her was her relationship with Drakken, and I'm sorry to say this but Shego is much too interesting a character to have all her development be confined to her relationship with Drakken. She needed a greater resolution. A resolution that was about HER, her goals, her character, her past, present and future. Not about D/S. And then of course, there's Drakken. My favorite character, obviously. His portrayal in this episode was the best of all the characters, as many others here agree. As I mentioned above, he was the only one to make any progress in a relationship with a character besides the one he's paired with. Secondly, he saved the world, just like I'd been predicting all along. What I'm disappointed with is that he was cheated out of the glory he should have gotten for it. Ron just had to go all MMP on the Lorwardians and take all the credit for being the big hero when all he did was kill two great characters. The real hero was Drakken, who destroyed the Lorwardian tech around the world, without which the Lorwardians would hardly be a threat. Instead of showing Drakken destroying all the walkers and putting him in the spotlight like he deserved, he was cut out of Ron's big MMP scene and when he finally returned his character was undermined by Shego's "You had to be there." comment. And sure, he got his medal of honor, but the D/S material in that scene takes attention away from Drakken's moment of glory. In conclusion, Drakken and Shego are both wonderful characters that each should have gotten their own separate moments to shine and have their stories concluded in a dramatic and unforgettable manner. Instead, there was too much focus on pairing them up, and in the end, D/S was demeaning to Drakken and demeaning to Shego. Even if I was a D/S shipper, I'd rather see the individual characters get the send-offs they deserved than that.
So that is my more well thought-out review of Graduation. What it came out to be was a wonderful episode in and of itself, but it was lacking a lot of things that it had the opportunity to explore. My final score is a 3/5. It's a good episode, but I was expecting better.
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Post by Darth_Comrade on Oct 16, 2007 14:26:58 GMT -5
Wow, you've certainly thought over this episode a lot. Props! ;D I do agree with you on almost everything you've stated. But, I hope you understand that they didn't have much time to go over all that...for what time they had, I doubt they could've done it any better. And as well, think of it this way, had they developed the characters in the way you were hoping they would don't you think it would work against allowing them to get a new season? I believe they were trying to hold back on us so that a fifth season may seem plausible. Like you said, they hinted a lot on possible developments, but didn't actually get to develop them...I believe that is a good thing- because it'll have everyone craving for more. And believe me, everyone is!
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Post by DP on Oct 16, 2007 16:21:48 GMT -5
Wow, you've certainly thought over this episode a lot. Props! ;D I do agree with you on almost everything you've stated. But, I hope you understand that they didn't have much time to go over all that...for what time they had, I doubt they could've done it any better. And as well, think of it this way, had they developed the characters in the way you were hoping they would don't you think it would work against allowing them to get a new season? I believe they were trying to hold back on us so that a fifth season may seem plausible. Like you said, they hinted a lot on possible developments, but didn't actually get to develop them...I believe that is a good thing- because it'll have everyone craving for more. And believe me, everyone is! Thanks for the feedback. I know that the time constraint is to blame for a lot of things, and you know what, this does make me want a fifth season even more....
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 16, 2007 16:38:24 GMT -5
Wow, you've certainly thought over this episode a lot. Props! ;D I do agree with you on almost everything you've stated. But, I hope you understand that they didn't have much time to go over all that...for what time they had, I doubt they could've done it any better. And as well, think of it this way, had they developed the characters in the way you were hoping they would don't you think it would work against allowing them to get a new season? I believe they were trying to hold back on us so that a fifth season may seem plausible. Like you said, they hinted a lot on possible developments, but didn't actually get to develop them...I believe that is a good thing- because it'll have everyone craving for more. And believe me, everyone is! I wouldn't say everybody. I know lots of people were more or less satisfied with the way the series ended. Personally, I was hoping that they did manage to close everything out since a season 5 was (and still is) pretty unlikely. Even if they were trying to hold back some stuff for season 5, I don't think they held back enough. Disney's already stated that college is 'too far out of the demographic' for the series to continue there, they turned D/S good and Monty into stone (buh-bye #1 and #2 villains) so they'd need to build up a new primary villain, and they made Ron into an unstoppable, Mystical Monkey Powerhouse. I really wouldn't say they were holding much back at all.
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Post by frozenfire on Oct 17, 2007 3:07:30 GMT -5
I wouldn't say everybody. I know lots of people were more or less satisfied with the way the series ended. Personally, I was hoping that they did manage to close everything out since a season 5 was (and still is) pretty unlikely. Even if they were trying to hold back some stuff for season 5, I don't think they held back enough. Disney's already stated that college is 'too far out of the demographic' for the series to continue there, they turned D/S good and Monty into stone (buh-bye #1 and #2 villains) so they'd need to build up a new primary villain, and they made Ron into an unstoppable, Mystical Monkey Powerhouse. I really wouldn't say they were holding much back at all. yeah, they really pulled out all the stops for this one...
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Post by cadmus on Oct 17, 2007 15:26:05 GMT -5
It's been quite a while since Graduation aired, and I've realized that my opinion of this episode has changed a bit, and not only that but I also now acknowledge that in my original review there were a lot of negative thoughts about the finale that I was holding back because I was initially happy about the airing of the episode. I did some thinking last night, and decided to return and review Graduation a second time, now that I've seen it a couple more times, and I've realized exactly what I like and don't like about it. I'll start with the good. Just about everything about Kim and Ron's graduation plot---the build-up, the emotion, the tying it into the villain plot, and the eventual wrap-up, was extremely well-done. There was nothing left to be desired in that part of the plot and I felt the writers did a terrific job with that. In addition to that, the characters, every single one of them, performed brilliantly in the situation they were dealt. Each of the characters was funny, loveable and in-character and they each made the most of the plot in which they were stuck. Overall, the episode did have a lot of action, a lot of humor, some character development, and most of all, it was packed with the type of emotion that reaches out to hardcore fans like us. It was not a bad episode at all. I loved it. I'd watch it again anytime and enjoy it just as much. But unfortunately, it was by no means perfect. And that brings me to the bad points of the episode that I was avoiding mentioning last time. First of all, sadly, it did not live up to my expectations. It was very action-packed and exciting, but not nearly as much so as I was expecting. As many before me have stated, So the Drama outdid this one in terms of action, and you can't blame the time constraint on that because I'm talking about the quality of the action. The type of action that gets you on the edge of your seat. I was closer to the edge of my seat at the beginning of part 2 when Kim got abducted than during the actual battle. And that brings me to my next point: The Lorwardians. I love Warmonga and Warhok, I love them for who they are and wouldn't want them to be anything else. But the thing is, we were promised a Darth Vader-type villain, and Warhok just didn't fit the bill for that. Like I said, though, I do not by any means blame the character. I think that if Warhok got a little more screen-time, and had had the focus shifted towards him instead of there being equal focus on him and Warmonga, then he most certainly could have pulled it off. But sadly, he didn't. And sadly, the threat posed by the Lorwardian tech wasn't nearly as imminent as I was hoping either. Drakken's Diablo army was still scarier than those alien walkers, I'm sorry. And to conclude my dissatisfaction regarding the Lorwardians, I was not at all pleased that they were killed off. Steve Loter once said that a villain would never be killed on KP because "that's not what KP is about." And he was right. It didn't seem true to the heart of KP at all for Warmonga and Warhok to be killed. Rest in peace, both of you. Now I come to my second biggest complaint of all: the unexplored character relationships. Drakken/Kim, Ron/Shego, Kim/Shego, Ron/Drakken. The team-up between the four of them presented such a great opportunity to develop each of the relationships I mentioned above. And although each of those pairs did have entertaining exchanges and interactions with one another, absolutely no progress was made except for Drakken admitting that Kim is a worthy foe and is indeed all that (leave it to Drakken to be the only one who makes progress ;D ). I was expecting Kim and Drakken to realize what they have in common and start respecting each other more, but no---Kim must have made a million cracks about how doubtful she was about Drakken being able to save the world. She should have had faith in him. That would be progress in the Drakken/Kim relationship. And in Ron/Shego: very hilarious. I loved every bit of it, but again, those two have so much in common, and now they'll never have a chance to realize it. Ron/Drakken: these two are always entertaining, but it wasn't like AVPC where they actually connected and became friends, even if temporarily. And then last but not least, Kim/Shego: the end of Stop Team Go, I feel, was painfully obviously hinting at a reconciliation between these two. And there was nothing. The only thing that came close was Kim PDPing to leave Shego with clean-up duty. So, in conclusion, what irks me the most here is that they had a chance to develop these uncommon relationships between the four main characters, and they wasted all their development on the two relationships that are already developed quite enough, thank you: Kim/Ron and Drakken/Shego. And that brings me to my last point. The finale was much too heavily focused on Kim and Ron. Even though Drakken and Shego played an important role, it didn't seem like they did. Both of those characters deserved a better send-off than what they got. Shego, first of all, is a very complex character, especially in season 4. There were a lot of questions to be answered about her that never were. Season 4 seemed to be foreshadowing a major change for her character in the finale and it wasn't. The only thing that changed about her was her relationship with Drakken, and I'm sorry to say this but Shego is much too interesting a character to have all her development be confined to her relationship with Drakken. She needed a greater resolution. A resolution that was about HER, her goals, her character, her past, present and future. Not about D/S. And then of course, there's Drakken. My favorite character, obviously. His portrayal in this episode was the best of all the characters, as many others here agree. As I mentioned above, he was the only one to make any progress in a relationship with a character besides the one he's paired with. Secondly, he saved the world, just like I'd been predicting all along. What I'm disappointed with is that he was cheated out of the glory he should have gotten for it. Ron just had to go all MMP on the Lorwardians and take all the credit for being the big hero when all he did was kill two great characters. The real hero was Drakken, who destroyed the Lorwardian tech around the world, without which the Lorwardians would hardly be a threat. Instead of showing Drakken destroying all the walkers and putting him in the spotlight like he deserved, he was cut out of Ron's big MMP scene and when he finally returned his character was undermined by Shego's "You had to be there." comment. And sure, he got his medal of honor, but the D/S material in that scene takes attention away from Drakken's moment of glory. In conclusion, Drakken and Shego are both wonderful characters that each should have gotten their own separate moments to shine and have their stories concluded in a dramatic and unforgettable manner. Instead, there was too much focus on pairing them up, and in the end, D/S was demeaning to Drakken and demeaning to Shego. Even if I was a D/S shipper, I'd rather see the individual characters get the send-offs they deserved than that. So that is my more well thought-out review of Graduation. What it came out to be was a wonderful episode in and of itself, but it was lacking a lot of things that it had the opportunity to explore. My final score is a 3/5. It's a good episode, but I was expecting better. Personally I thought the Lowardians as a threat lost their edge due to that stupid off switch gag. There's a time and place to insert a joke into KP, and this wasn't it. If a villain's plan can be interrupted by something so ridiculously simple that a 4-year old can do it, than the villain is no longer intimidating, he's just dumb. And just to rub salt in the wounds the villains even banter to each other, calling themselves stupid for putting the off switch on the ship. It was truly a moment, that hurt this episode more than the VIP's probably intended it to. There was nothing after this that helped Warhok recover as a threat. Having said that I probably could have forgiven it if Kim and Ron's story about college & the future had gotten proper closure, like it should have(or proper exposition giving us the clarity to know where their future's are heading) but we didn't get neither. . I can sort of(key word sort of) let this slide, since the evil that is the blasted Disney BS & P cut the VIP's off at the legs. But I can't forgive the writers for that stupid off switch, when their supposed to be writing both as a threat, not undermining their intelligence.
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 20, 2007 20:09:36 GMT -5
sorry, but i really liked it!
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Post by cadmus on Oct 30, 2007 17:43:05 GMT -5
What I like about the "Grease" ending is that it actually confirms that Ron was worrying over nothing. His fear was that Kim was heading to the stars and he would be stuck on earth. In the end they are heading to the stars together. Not to sound like a horses you know what, but to me that ending doesn't really make sense without the proper exposition. For 40 minutes I was told that Ron's fears were of Kim heading off to college without him. NOT KIM HEADING TO THE STARS. I felt this was a lousy explanation for Ron's problems with college. I didn't feel there was ANY real transition from how Ron was panicking to how Ron felt in the closing minutes. There was no payoff, nothing. While them heading to the stars was cute, Ron's concern was whether he would be in college with Kim or not (let alone college period) not with Kim literally heading to the stars. The question was hyped for 40 minutes with Ron's constant worrying and by the time its done, the question goes unanswered. There wasn't even a remote hint of subtlety confirming Ron going to college (w/ or w/o Kim) To me the 2-parter felt empty because of this. If you guys had something like this: You'd have Ron's parents giving him his college acceptance letters as a graduation present at the last minute. And their excuse for not giving them to him would've been, "This is our way of telling you." Then he would tell Kim about the acceptance letters, and figures out that Kim has been accepted to the same schools that Ron has. To which Ron says "So this means you and I are..." To which Kim replies "Uh huh." To which Ron then celebrates.
between Ron getting his diploma and the start of the ending song, it would've been more believable. IMO I found it out of character for Ron to suddenly forget about everything involving college, in the last 5 minutes. Kim's "told you graduation wasn't the end of the world." didn't ring true in context because there was absolutely nothing here that put Ron's fears about college to rest, no explanation, no nothing. Hell Drakken & Shego's "supposed" relationship was given more subtlety than Ron was, which was depressingly disappointing when you think about it. For a season hyped up as tying up loose ends I found this loose end was left waaayyyyy too open. Its not that I wanted to know every single detail of their college life, I was just looking for better subtlety letting us know that they were heading in that direction, and I honestly didn't get that at all. Hell, I would of settled for (but not be happy with mind you) Ron saying he'd do whatever it took to get into the same college as Kim, because at least then we the viewers have an idea of the direction that Ron's character is going in. Here, there's nothing indicating what direction Ron's character is going in zip, zero, goose egg. At the end of the series Ron's character has no indicated direction of any kind, because no one bothered to pay this issue any attention, LAME. Take Epilogue in Justice League Unlimited for example. I wanted to know how they were going to resolve the Dana/Terry issue. The episode had told us that Terry plans to propose to Dana because he holds an engagement ring in his hand while talking to Dana on the phone; Asking her "Are we still on for this weekend? I wanted to ask you something." The episode didn't show the proposal but honestly there was enough subtlety where I and everyone else could put 2+2 together; in other words I was happy that the characters were heading in a guranteed direction, but enough is left open for fans to interpret for themselves what happens between Terry & Dana. There was nothing concrete in KP's Graduation that showed us the characters had a guaranteed direction. That's what disappoints me the most about the series finale; not the lackluster villains, not Ron's MMP smacking of convenience, and not Drakken & Shego getting together randomly. I could forgive all those flaws if Ron's story got closure. That way the most important loose end is tied up, then I would of given this *****, but since it got ignored for non sensical reasons storytelling wise, there is nothing showing us that Ron (or together with Kim) is heading in a guranteed direction, which was inexcusable IMO, reluctantly I now have to give this *** as Graduation does not hold up on repeated viewings compared to So The Drama and its silly to pretend otherwise. Also considering that KP was able to accomplish what few shows could dream of, (keep a highly interesting relationship entertaining after the main characters got together) I thought the characters deserved to have a sense of closure given that keeping the relationship fresh between characters like Kim and Ron helped to make their characters feel like rare, one of a kind gems that don't come by all the time. I felt, and still feel those gems should've been treated like diamonds in the rough. But without proper closure, it feels like no one put them in a proper box for safe keeping, I was left feeling like the diamonds were left on the floor and no one bothered to pick them up, because it felt like no one cared. The last great animated tv show on Disney deserved an ending with dignity, it should've ended with the viewers certain of the direction Kim and Ron were going in, even if we aren't there to see it. The ending however came across as forced; maybe one day, those of us that yearn for adequate closure will get it, just not right now.
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