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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 7, 2006 16:03:53 GMT -5
First of all, concerning the idea of Ron being this way I think you all have heard it before, either he became this on purpose just to have a friend of simply Kim's presense near Ron made him think that Kim would do everything and thus he stopped making any efforts in anything. In time everyone simply thought of him as a incapable person and as a consequence this only fuels Ron's current behaviour.As you remember, Ron's behaviour before meeting Kim was totally different, he was serious, he paid attention to very especiffic details, his knowledge was amazingly high for his age as well his compreension of the concepts that have to do with what he knows, not to mention his inteligence allowed him to detect very complicateed concepts(for his age).
Concerning Yori overestimating Ron, unfortunately I have to disagree with this one because as I said before, Yori held faith, not imesured admiration or exageration or fanaticism. When Ron succeeded in emerging victorius she now can call him Warrior Hero, a thing other's have called Ron also(Sensei), during his stay in Yamanuchi Ron showed to have much potential in several especiffic skills, from bow fighting, ninjitsu, hand to hand combat and finally his MMP, which he showed to posess a very high potential in it. When Kim discovers about this it then turn to a different thing and that's that Kim has a cetain idea of Ron and also underestimates him while Yori, who was near Ron during all those situations, knows his true potential. The only thing Yori and the others called Ron was warrior Hero, and that isn't an exageration also, Ron has showed to live up to the tittle Warrior Hero, not by luck of kindness from others but due to his potential which also surpassed the expectations of others. Of course that Ron doesn't want to have anything to do with the hole Warrior Hero thing.
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Post by surforst on Sept 7, 2006 20:38:41 GMT -5
Yes but what sort of image does she have of Ron. Granted Kim might underestimate Ron at times but she does know who he is. I'd be worried in anything Rori that Yori got some unreal image of what Ron really is. He might have the potential to be a 'warrior hero' but that doesn't mean he's still not goofy Ron. With Kim he can be goofy all he wants, to a limit of course, but I doubt that with Yori. Just my worry on that one.
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Post by cloudmonet on Sept 8, 2006 1:11:28 GMT -5
"You make danger comical, Stoppable-san, with your American style buffoonery."
Don't think Ron's goofiness is a problem for Yori, per se, nor is occasional failure. There were moments in "Exchange" when she grabbed him by the wrist and yanked him out of danger just like Kim. The question is, does Yori have an objective appreciation of Ron's abilities and shortcomings, despite what she says? I'm really not sure. I'm calling the evidence inconclusive.
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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 8, 2006 17:50:42 GMT -5
Yori has seen Ron's facete of being goofy and sometimes useless due to his attitude in being both clumsy and lazy. From what I've seen so far, I think it may be correct to state that Yori enjoys Ron becuase of his goofy way of being, although I did not see Yori become upset even in Ron's excesive moments of clumsiness and goofiness. In time she may change her attitude towards Ron but I think I can state that Yori likes Ron because of his goofiness so I'm not certain if in time she could become upset.
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Post by surforst on Sept 9, 2006 0:25:42 GMT -5
Nah I just don't see it. I mean each time she see him doing something stupid she assumes he's joking or something is the thing I take from it. How well she react when she learns Ron loses his pants cause the boy can't honestly keep them on (a plot by Kimberly Anne perhaps?). I don't I still think Yori got a different image of Ron then what he really is and unless Season four changes my mind then I'll probably stick with that viewpoint. Way of my world.
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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 9, 2006 5:29:43 GMT -5
She'll burst out laughing until she has a heart attack, after all, this is Ron's secret weapon.
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Post by cloudmonet on Sept 10, 2006 13:03:13 GMT -5
Yori's already seen Ron lose his pants, or get them ripped, in both episodes they've shared. And Yori does seem a bit annoyed at Ron in "Exchange," when they're running from Monkey Fist.
They more we talk about this, the more I wonder how much the apparent difference between Yori and Kim in attitude toward Ron is real, and how much of it is just cultural. How different is Yori saying, "It will be your honor to go first," from Kim saying, "Do something to cause a distraction"? The functional results are the same. Yori and Kim do the hard fighting, and Ron does whatever Ron thing is required. The only real difference seems to be whose style Ron's more comfortable with, and Ron seems flexible enough to do either, though I think Kim has an edge just because they've been together (one way or another) for so long.
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Post by ninjanaco on Sept 10, 2006 13:23:19 GMT -5
Well, here's some dialogue from the mentioned episode, from the Gargoyles convention: Seems our favorite Japanese ninja girl takes some things a bit too literally.
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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 10, 2006 17:58:04 GMT -5
The phrase Yori says is technically Yori's way of pushing Ron to do something, the only different is that it has a another approach to it, not to mention that you have to associate this to Yori's faith towards Ron's abilities.
Concerning Kim, we can see from her phrase that she doesn't expect much from Ron, both due to underestimation and her idea of Ron ever since she was four. Yet the basis is still the same, she is pushing him to the front line to make him start doing something.
It depends on the theme of the episode, in Exchange they wanted Ron to do the intense fighting and the "final blow", while in Gorilla Fist the theme was another(it was distributed), thus making Ron become he same old clumsy, goofy guy we all know.
I only remember the time when she somewhat quietly laughed at him during the training when his pants feel (one of her strongest laughs in the episode if not the strongest).
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Post by surforst on Sept 10, 2006 18:03:37 GMT -5
Well the thing to remember about Kim encouraging Ron versus Yori is that Yori only meet the boy for a short while. Kim's know him for her entire life (about) and you get tired of trying to get another human being to achieve their potential after a while. Heck Yori would probably give up on Ron after a few months and go commit suicide by consuming vast amounts of Nacho cheese. For a short while she'd be the legendary Cheese Ninja of the East but only Ron can maintain that level of eating without dropping dead.
Another thing I think we have to remember about Yori is that somehow someway she'll get Ron to haul the luggage. Maybe this time around though Kim will snap at Yori for that and Ron won't have to carry it all. Doubt it though.
Anyway does anyone think Kim's going to instantly go jealous girlfriend when Yori comes into the scene. Just something about Kim makes me think she's the type of girl who wants to be very close to her man whenever he talks to another girl. I'm thinking a lot of the subtle stuff we saw in season three will go way overboard in the episode as Kim tries to send a clear message to Yori to back off. I could be wrong though.
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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 10, 2006 18:58:32 GMT -5
Well the thing to remember about Kim encouraging Ron versus Yori is that Yori only meet the boy for a short while. Kim's know him for her entire life (about) and you get tired of trying to get another human being to achieve their potential after a while. Heck Yori would probably give up on Ron after a few months and go commit suicide by consuming vast amounts of Nacho cheese. For a short while she'd be the legendary Cheese Ninja of the East but only Ron can maintain that level of eating without dropping dead. Sorry Surforst but unfortunately I've got to disagree there. We've seen the secret key to make Ron successeful and any character can use this key(especially Kim by a long shot) and that's encouragement. Whenever Yori encouraged (and technically forced) Ron to act he always succeeded, she told him he could pass the training and he did, when she had no hope Ron step up to lead and they won and she ignores Ron's apparent failures and his own opinion's about himself being weak. She stays quiet some of the time and that's for instance when she s uncertain or when she know she shouldn't say some irrealistic foolishess about the situation, but in the end Ron prooved he was up for the chanlenge. However, with Kim this doesn't happen often simply because she doesn't give that much "encouragement" to the kid. It's true that she more than usually helps him but technically you have to keep in mind that although she wants to help him anytime, there have been several times when Ron was not around that Kim shows her true beliefs about Ron and she is shown to not have faith in his abilities and also disregards them imediatly, even sometimes when Ron suceeds in from of her eyes(but this depends on the subject at hand), sorry but it's Kim's fault on this one. Kim's attitude prevents Ron from taking one step foward and it is rare for her to give a encouragement speech directed to Ron and why, because of both her tendency in underestimating people but especially because she has an idea of Ron the way she trully thinks he is ever since she was four although it is true that Ron may have voluntarely started this process, but also by analyzing Kim's behaviour, it wouldn't be a surprise that with her attitude in overestimating herself and underestimating others she would have adopted this behaviour right after she meet Ron, in other words ever since the beginning. This attitude of her's may have influenced Ron's mentality of himself and discouraged him to excel. Tecnically Kim tells Ron to simply distract, I know that this comes from both lack of faith and her mentality and at the same time her personal experience when dealing with Ron, but you have to keep in mind that she influenced things as they were before thus creating the present situation we stand upon. In short we see from Kim a constant supporting attitude towards Ron, after all she is his bestest friend in whole world and she must help him without any question, yet we rarely she her adopting a mentality of encouragement towards Ron because of her mentality and life experience. Ron has shown to suceed even when she doesn't offer that necessary encouragement, but the funny thing is that when she does offer that kind of help, Ron suceeds almost for granted and she becomes very excited and happy about her Ron finally succeeding and supports him 100%. My guess on this is that Kim has a problem in being self centered somewhat often but when she sees Ron succeeding she always imediatly abandons this attitude, clearly shows to be extremely proud of the boy and supports him by 100% not to mention that only seems to like like him even more whch shows that she isn't really arrogant or anything like that, it's that she simply has a bad habit in underestimating people and in being close minded concerning some subjects, nothing serious. On the other hand Yori is more open minded, and her view is shared among everyone in Yamanuchi, thus clearly not having it's origins in overestimation or ignorance.
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Post by surforst on Sept 10, 2006 19:43:55 GMT -5
Disagreeing with me Thorius? You wound me!
Anyway I'm pretty sure Ron failed the training but managed to take down Monkey Fist. Anyway as I've said everything about Ron is his fault and Mr. P fault. Kim can't be blamed for Ron not applying himself and that is the truth of that sitch. I'm still convinced Yori would break pretty quickly just like any of us would break under constant exposure of Kim. I swear after twenty minutes of talking to Kim I'd fall asleep on the floor (Girl freaking too energetic) and as for Ron I'd hit him upside the head with a book. It'll be the closest he got to one. In the end Yori should avoid both of them and that's why K/R works since no one can survive either one of them.
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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 10, 2006 19:50:02 GMT -5
Disagreeing with me Thorius? You wound me! Anyway I'm pretty sure Ron failed the training but managed to take down Monkey Fist. Anyway as I've said everything about Ron is his fault and Mr. P fault. Kim can't be blamed for Ron not applying himself and that is the truth of that sitch. I'm still convinced Yori would break pretty quickly just like any of us would break under constant exposure of Kim. I swear after twenty minutes of talking to Kim I'd fall asleep on the floor (Girl freaking too energetic) and as for Ron I'd hit him upside the head with a book. It'll be the closest he got to one. In the end Yori should avoid both of them and that's why K/R works since no one can survive either one of them. Failing the training "partially". Those parts in which we saw Ron fail were both used because of the comical element and technically also because of his clumbsiness and lazyness. Remember, his clumbsiness and lazyness aren't to be used in intelligence or potential evaluation, not to mention that the hole scenne was made for fun, so technically it doesn't have any logical sence concerning Ron's abilities as well as connection, which has been shown in several other jokes through out the series. I think you misunderstood me on something Surforst, I'm not talking about K/R or Y/R or anything, I'm just mentioning the behaviours or each character. Not to worry, I'm an old school guy, thus making me a 100% K/R supporter and nothing else.
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Post by pauloj1983 on Sept 18, 2006 9:13:05 GMT -5
In the end Yori should avoid both of them and that's why K/R works since no one can survive either one of them. Gee, and I wonder why there are many Ron/Other ships rather than Kim/Other fics. Rori, Bon-Ron, Ron/Tara, Ronique, Ron/Hope and my second favourite pairing after Rori, Rongo. ;D Pick you poison And you mentioned that Kim must be a saint with the eay she puts up with Ron but the truth is Ron must be a sucker for punishment the way he put up eith Kim's shallow, golden-boy chasing, Bonnie-esque B!t%h that she was in StD.
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Post by Thorius Maximus on Sept 18, 2006 10:37:10 GMT -5
Nope sorry, got to disagree with you there. It's Ron's fault alright, he's smply too distracted and also too obtuse during many times also. Not to mention that Erik was made as the perfect boy for any girl, and you can verfy that with Monique's reaction toward Erik.
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Post by surforst on Sept 18, 2006 12:03:18 GMT -5
Gee, and I wonder why there are many Ron/Other ships rather than Kim/Other fics. Rori, Bon-Ron, Ron/Tara, Ronique, Ron/Hope and my second favourite pairing after Rori, Rongo. ;D Pick you poison And you mentioned that Kim must be a saint with the eay she puts up with Ron but the truth is Ron must be a sucker for punishment the way he put up eith Kim's shallow, golden-boy chasing, Bonnie-esque B!t%h that she was in StD. Well I have started a Ronique line of stories so I'll admit I'm willing to ship other pairings with Ron. Still convinced Monique will go crazy after a while when Ron explains his theory about why Nacho cheese drips the way it does. Something crazy like that. Anyway your opinion of Kim is majorily flawed my friend/comrade/dude over there/chap and ignores a basic fact. What's that fact Surforst you ask as you lean forward eagerly waiting to be enlightened? Well simply that Kim is an independent girl who is allowed to have a life outside of Ron. She's allowed to date, spend time with friends, and even God forbid make mistakes. So she dated the hot guy in StD? Where does that make her a b****? Does she not have a right to date someone when they ask her out or does she have to wait till Ron finally got up the courage to ask her out? I guess though a girl who risks her life to save others, stays friends with Ron despite all the crazy stuff he does, and in the end realizes her mistake and goes off with Ron must be a b****. Sorry I don't see it but I'll take you're word for it.
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Post by pauloj1983 on Sept 18, 2006 17:04:36 GMT -5
Gee, and I wonder why there are many Ron/Other ships rather than Kim/Other fics. Rori, Bon-Ron, Ron/Tara, Ronique, Ron/Hope and my second favourite pairing after Rori, Rongo. ;D Pick you poison And you mentioned that Kim must be a saint with the eay she puts up with Ron but the truth is Ron must be a sucker for punishment the way he put up eith Kim's shallow, golden-boy chasing, Bonnie-esque B!t%h that she was in StD. Well I have started a Ronique line of stories so I'll admit I'm willing to ship other pairings with Ron. Still convinced Monique will go crazy after a while when Ron explains his theory about why Nacho cheese drips the way it does. Something crazy like that. Anyway your opinion of Kim is majorily flawed my friend/comrade/dude over there/chap and ignores a basic fact. What's that fact Surforst you ask as you lean forward eagerly waiting to be enlightened? Well simply that Kim is an independent girl who is allowed to have a life outside of Ron. She's allowed to date, spend time with friends, and even God forbid make mistakes. So she dated the hot guy in StD? Where does that make her a b****? Does she not have a right to date someone when they ask her out or does she have to wait till Ron finally got up the courage to ask her out? I guess though a girl who risks her life to save others, stays friends with Ron despite all the crazy stuff he does, and in the end realizes her mistake and goes off with Ron must be a b****. Sorry I don't see it but I'll take you're word for it. Gee, if that's true then maybe then your truth also applies to Ron. Ron is allowed to date, spend time with his friends, and make mistakes. He has a life outside Kim as is shown in Steal Wheels. Can I ask you what you think of Zita in Season 2??? The trouble Im finding with the K/R movement is that it's becoming increasingly narrow minded. It's Kim and Ron and nothing else. Also, so what if Ron does not think the way of the majority. Does that make him a loser. A hairless pet so his dad does'nt get allergies. God forbid.
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Post by surforst on Sept 18, 2006 17:08:51 GMT -5
Gee, if that's true then maybe then your truth also applies to Ron. Ron is allowed to date, spend time with his friends, and make mistakes. He has a life outside Kim as is shown in Steal Wheels. Can I ask you what you think of Zita in Season 2??? The trouble Im finding with the K/R movement is that it's becoming increasingly narrow minded. It's Kim and Ron and nothing else. Also, so what if Ron does not think the way of the majority. Does that make him a loser. A hairless pet so his dad does'nt get allergies. God forbid. Yep Ron has a right to date and it's cute that Kim gets jealous when he spends time with anyone else just like Ron gets jealous when Kim pays attention to anyone else. Anyway Zita fine though she only appeared in two episodes so it's hard to get a real opinion of her. She's also a little too into gaming...WOW anyone? As for Ron being a loser...well he is a social loser. Not anything wrong with that just the way it is. Kim doesn't seem to mind so why should I.
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Post by pauloj1983 on Sept 19, 2006 21:45:49 GMT -5
Gee, if that's true then maybe then your truth also applies to Ron. Ron is allowed to date, spend time with his friends, and make mistakes. He has a life outside Kim as is shown in Steal Wheels. Can I ask you what you think of Zita in Season 2??? The trouble Im finding with the K/R movement is that it's becoming increasingly narrow minded. It's Kim and Ron and nothing else. Also, so what if Ron does not think the way of the majority. Does that make him a loser. A hairless pet so his dad does'nt get allergies. God forbid. Yep Ron has a right to date and it's cute that Kim gets jealous when he spends time with anyone else just like Ron gets jealous when Kim pays attention to anyone else. Anyway Zita fine though she only appeared in two episodes so it's hard to get a real opinion of her. She's also a little too into gaming...WOW anyone? As for Ron being a loser...well he is a social loser. Not anything wrong with that just the way it is. Kim doesn't seem to mind so why should I. Social Loser...right. This is a guy who treated a wheelchair person as a person with no handcap, made a best male friend with him and made Kim insensitive and someone who pointed out said handicap's handicap.
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Post by surforst on Sept 19, 2006 23:17:24 GMT -5
Social Loser...right. This is a guy who treated a wheelchair person as a person with no handcap, made a best male friend with him and made Kim insensitive and someone who pointed out said handicap's handicap. Yes Ron is a social loser. Never said he's not a nice guy but he is not very popular among his peers and he has very few friends. As for attacking Kim on the way she acted around Felix is just a low blow on that one. It's normal for someone to be uncomfortable around a handicap person if they are not used to it. What happened after she got used to it? She hung around and treated Felix like a normal person even to the point of getting jealous of all the time Ron spent with him. Again this is holding Kim to a standard we wouldn't hold anyone else. Not going to buy it.
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