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Post by Darth Gouki on Aug 25, 2006 0:35:49 GMT -5
I'm going to keep very, very calm, and attempt to be civil. I'm not good at either of those two things, so bear with me.
I really don't see the issue with the Bunny Kim. I don't see it as degrading or exploiting of girls, I just see it as a fun, cute little game that doesn't cast Kim in a very friendly personty or sleazy light. (EDIT: "friendly personty?" I KNOW I didn't write THAT.)
People need to calm down.
Yes, I realize that there has been some smut going around Deviant Art (I'm new here, so I don't pretend to know if it has spread or not). I'm gonna keep my opinions on that to myself.
The first pic of the "Bunny" theme was Kim in a bunny suit, holding a guitar. Nothing too risque, in my opinion. Had sort of a rock and roll vibe going on. People sent their own in response, and now, it seems, people are up in arms over this, treating it like it was the devil.
Now, we've got Ivy acting all mopey over something that SHE DID NOTHING WRONG IN DOING!!!!!! Ron as a girl was simply meant to be a funny gag, not something suggesting sexual deviant behavior.
I'm not saying that everybody should jump into kiddie pictures Kim hentai, but geez-louise, relax a little bit? It's a bunny suit. It's kinda cute. It's kinda funny. It is exploiting girls, no more than Kim always showing bare mid-riff on the show (which, incidentally, would NOT fly in most high schools--what message is being broadcast to little girls who watch the show there, huh? HUH?)
Now, I'll admit, some people on Deviant Art have gone a little risque on the Bunny thing, but in general, the Bunny has been relatively tame and innocent.
Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant and stuff.
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Post by surforst on Aug 25, 2006 1:04:29 GMT -5
Got to admit there is a point to that. What is wrong with a bunny suited Kim anyway? Surforst would like to know.
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Aug 25, 2006 7:07:24 GMT -5
An actual bunny suit is fine. It's cute.
But, a Playboy Bunny Suit is basically saying, "Oh, I support making women out to look like they are SUPPOSED to be degraded and treated like they are an OBJECT." It's hot yes, but, I don't watch Kim Possible because she's hot, I watch her because she is a strong positive role model for women and girls.
And because I love the story and the fight scenes.
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Post by wallaceb on Aug 25, 2006 9:40:17 GMT -5
dracko is not saying the art is bad in any way....but that it can be seen as lowering the image of the board, as he said was once the case here, and he worked hard to clean it back up. the art is great, but we do not want to scare away the VIP's again, and we do not want people who visit to think badly about the board either
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Post by Darth Gouki on Aug 25, 2006 12:24:44 GMT -5
Ashley, I'm just going to respectfully disagree with you on the topic of Playboy, and leave it at that.
As for Kim Possible, I watch the show because it's funny and entertaining. Whether or not it's lead is "Hot" has little to do with the equation. Yes, the character is a good role model for girls. Actually, I disagree with that feminist take on the character. Kim shouldn't simply be a role model for girls alone. She's kind, helpful, and heroic. Those are qualities that BOTH sexes should strive to have in themselves. My four-year-old nephew watches the reruns on Disney Channel religiously and constantly tells me, "Uncle George, I want to be like Kim Possible!"
As for "degrading and treated like an object" well, we have women drawing the Kim Bunny as well. What is your response to those people? I hardly think they believe they are promoting degradation and objectification.
But... that's not for me to say, I suppose. I'm only a man.
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Post by enigmawing on Aug 25, 2006 13:25:21 GMT -5
Forgive me, I'm kinda new here, but not to the world of KP and its fandom.
I'm a woman, but I don't agree with feminism. I'm more of an equal right-ist, if there is such a term. I was once leaning toward feminist issues myself but eventually realized that as a whole, the movement has a nasty chip on its shoulder.
Now what's appropriate for this board is not my place to say, that's up to those running it to decide. I would like to think the bunny suit is not a problem; one sees more skin revealed in a bikini. And heck, I've seen many girls far below the age of eighteen wear them as halloween costumes and the like.
I've been following the trend at dA, and the first bunny pic actually had a Fooly Cooly vibe going on with the suit and guitar. I was also one of the early participants, with three different pieces of art now contributed (a couple of which I'm particularly proud of) and a fourth one in the works.
Once again, I'm a woman. Does that mean I'm exploiting her and girls everywhere? Am I treating her like an object? No. I have the utmost respect for the character and the show. That's why I'm a fan, and that's why I create fanart.
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Aug 25, 2006 14:11:06 GMT -5
just had to say I *wuv* your avatar - PPG and KP - what a match!
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Aug 25, 2006 14:18:08 GMT -5
Ashley, I'm just going to respectfully disagree with you on the topic of Playboy, and leave it at that. As for Kim Possible, I watch the show because it's funny and entertaining. Whether or not it's lead is "Hot" has little to do with the equation. Yes, the character is a good role model for girls. Actually, I disagree with that feminist take on the character. Kim shouldn't simply be a role model for girls alone. She's kind, helpful, and heroic. Those are qualities that BOTH sexes should strive to have in themselves. My four-year-old nephew watches the reruns on Disney Channel religiously and constantly tells me, "Uncle George, I want to be like Kim Possible!" As for "degrading and treated like an object" well, we have women drawing the Kim Bunny as well. What is your response to those people? I hardly think they believe they are promoting degradation and objectification. But... that's not for me to say, I suppose. I'm only a man. Well, yes, KP is also a female and male role model, I agree. But, as far as the women drawing the Kim Bunny. I don't have a problem with it. I consider myself a feminist but I mostly believe that women should be treated equal, if not better than men. I gotta give men their props though... they're responsible for making strong female characters like Xena, Kim, and Lara Croft (even though she was given huge boobs and objectified.)
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Post by enigmawing on Aug 25, 2006 14:52:31 GMT -5
Ok, so let me get this straight. . . it's okay from women to draw the bunny suit, but not men? And if a character happens to have large breasts, that automatically makes them an object? Does this apply to real women too? Because if it does then I'm in trouble. But seriously, I'm in total agreement with equal treatment, but I simply don't get the "if not better" part. [EDIT] Aers- thank you so much for the comment on my avatar!!!
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Aug 25, 2006 15:08:23 GMT -5
No. Of course not. Having large breasts doesn't constitute as being an object. But, society tends to treat them as such. Look at Pam Anderson-Lee-Rock!
I just think that it's total bulls.hit that women have been treated as inferiors and whatnot since the beginning of time. I mean, read the Bible. Woman is responsible for sin, woman asked for John the Baptist's head. And then, we didn't even get the right to vote until 1920 in the USA! We weren't even citizens in Ancient Greece. So, I feel that men should treat women equally, but specifically better.
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Fusion Fox
Pink Sloth
READ THIS POST IN A MUMBLING BRITISH ACCENT
Not a bad problem to have if you ask me.
Posts: 4
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Post by Fusion Fox on Aug 25, 2006 15:19:08 GMT -5
Because women were treated badly in the past, they should be treated better than men? I'm sorry but that it seems a bit hypocritical if you work to get women the same rights as men and then try to get women treated better than men
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Aug 25, 2006 15:23:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I get ya. The point is, we should be treated the same, end of story. And it applies to race, orientation, etc.
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Post by enigmawing on Aug 25, 2006 15:32:33 GMT -5
The real issue is that we to stop slapping stereotypes on everything and start seeing individuals themselves. Pam Am-whatever-her-name-is-these-days chose to have the breast implants, then chose to have them removed. Oh yeah, then chose to have implants yet again.
As for the way women have been treated in the past, keep in mind that we are in the 21st century now. I will not deny that there is still unequal treatment happening in places, but to expect women to be treated better than men is wrong and doesn't make up for anything.
Did any of the artists here (male or female) have anything to do with what has transpired in the bible? Or gender status in ancient civilizations? Or even more recenty, women's right to vote?
We should learn from the past, not use it as a bargaining chip.
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Post by enigmawing on Aug 25, 2006 15:34:09 GMT -5
Ah, Fusion Fox! You beat me to it. ;D
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Fusion Fox
Pink Sloth
READ THIS POST IN A MUMBLING BRITISH ACCENT
Not a bad problem to have if you ask me.
Posts: 4
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Post by Fusion Fox on Aug 25, 2006 15:36:36 GMT -5
Ah, Fusion Fox! You beat me to it. ;D Yeah but your answer was worded better ;D
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Aug 25, 2006 16:09:41 GMT -5
ah... youth. totally wasted on the young.
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Post by captainkodak1 on Aug 25, 2006 16:21:55 GMT -5
amen there Aers
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Aug 25, 2006 16:53:43 GMT -5
The real issue is that we to stop slapping stereotypes on everything and start seeing individuals themselves. Pam Am-whatever-her-name-is-these-days chose to have the breast implants, then chose to have them removed. Oh yeah, then chose to have implants yet again. As for the way women have been treated in the past, keep in mind that we are in the 21st century now. I will not deny that there is still unequal treatment happening in places, but to expect women to be treated better than men is wrong and doesn't make up for anything. Did any of the artists here (male or female) have anything to do with what has transpired in the bible? Or gender status in ancient civilizations? Or even more recenty, women's right to vote? We should learn from the past, not use it as a bargaining chip. Yeah, you're right. I don't know why the heck I dwell on the past stuff when I follow the word of The Lion King and K.P. as it's a religion.
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Aug 25, 2006 16:58:53 GMT -5
maybe we should form an Oldies KP club - whatta say? ;D
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Aug 25, 2006 17:05:30 GMT -5
Haha.
Everybody older than 7400 years old, join Aers and the Captain!
I'm just kiddin'.
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