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Post by blak on Feb 16, 2008 8:46:32 GMT -5
I don't know if there's a thread like this already but Levelord, one of the greatest KP artist I've ever seen on DeviantART, got banned due to his "adult pictures" (...I think). Here's CDB2's Journal for more info: cdb2.deviantart.com/journal/16906554/#journal
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Post by mrpotty on Feb 16, 2008 9:33:48 GMT -5
Well, it's sad and it makes me angry but I'm not surprised. I left DA one or two years ago, because they delete even harmless cartoon art, but don't seem to have a problem with sexual related photography involving children(!).
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Post by pengychan on Feb 16, 2008 9:36:13 GMT -5
This sucks. I really don't get *why* he was banned - DA's policy is getting far too restrictive
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Post by Luqkim... on Feb 16, 2008 9:47:20 GMT -5
Yeah, Lev's been complaining alot about his Art work getting deleted, and he has been very cautious with his art ... never thought they would ban him for good. D:
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Post by Commander Argus on Feb 16, 2008 9:55:04 GMT -5
If Levelord was in the US, there might finally be a case for legal action against the site, mainly because enforcement of such rules has to be uniform.
Load the home page for that place and your screen will be filled with garbage you might not want to see.
Has anyone got the URL for Lev's blog/art site?
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Post by Malory Evolent on Feb 16, 2008 10:01:28 GMT -5
This outrages me to no end. DA deleted one of my pics in the past and it wasn't even something I drew. The original was still in the arist's gallery for the longest time. To paraphrase my friend Normansanzo: Deviant Art can choke on a "Shattered Dream Pie"!!!
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Feb 16, 2008 10:06:26 GMT -5
I feel the same, Kob. I'm a big fan of Levelord's art and he's been a great friend of me here, and that kind of censorship (actually ALL censorship) honks me off. I found out last night during a voice chat with some RS.net-ers and I admitted to them in no uncertain terms that I respected how he went down. If you've seen his last artwork, which is basically a nice loud "**** you!" to dA. Levelord, if you're reading this: You rock man.
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Post by Captain Serge Stiles on Feb 16, 2008 10:13:43 GMT -5
I still don't know exactly why he was taken down - but I can have an idea. I've had 5 pictures taken out of my gallery in the past for probably a similar reason (children's cartoon characters, ones that have been aired as underage, in any sort of sexual situation) - But I don't know why they didn't just purge the pictures, and then give him a warning, and then he can continue uploading art, just not ones that really "cross or even toe the line," and I use that phrase loosely, because their lines can be in pretty bizarre places.
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Post by Lord FunkyHoof on Feb 16, 2008 10:35:33 GMT -5
As much as I hate to say this, Levelord pretty much asked for the Banning. I do agree, when I saw that 19 of his Deviations were deleted in one fell swoop I spazzed out, that was just unreal and really stupid!
From there you can either be civilized about it and try and see just what you can do to fight that tyranny, or be a complete maniac and cuss like a sailor, guess which one he chose? Right before his banning he posted a journal Bad Mouthing DA and pretty much calling out the Mod who deleted his things, and even Daring them to delete the Ice Cream Deviation. And the Ban ensued.
I am sorry about his Banning, no doubt about that, but I think he chose the wrong course of action regarding his deletions.
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Post by mrpotty on Feb 16, 2008 10:41:01 GMT -5
Well, I don't think Levelord did this because he expected that the mods will apologize and allow him to go on with his art. I guess he just decided to leave with a bang.
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Post by johnnys on Feb 16, 2008 11:12:17 GMT -5
Its their loss. I'm sure Lev has other better place to share his artistic talent to the world.
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Post by Captain Serge Stiles on Feb 16, 2008 11:18:25 GMT -5
Oh, I understand now - He wasn't banned for the pictures, but for his reaction to it. Yeah, that makes sense, that's not the best thing to do, I've seen that happen on several occasions (even to someone who found someone copying their own art - they did not handle it correctly). If you do draw something risky in a place with strict rules, you have to understand that any day now, someone will notify a mod. I'm sure that's how mine were noticed, someone probably marked them to be looked at, someone offended and extremely aware of every inch of the DA rules.
Going out with a bang isn't an honourable way to go out, especially when you weren't meaning to go out in the first place, just some pictures were removed. If he just did art for the sake of doing art, it shouldn't matter if they get removed from one art site, since the point isn't making them to show off, but to make them to make them. So I guess if DA thought he was not respectful of their decision even though it's their place and they're letting him use it (kind of like, you're in my house, you go by my rules), then yeah, he'll get kicked out.
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Post by captainkodak1 on Feb 16, 2008 11:19:39 GMT -5
Captain Stiles, I have asked the same question myself in the line of a warning. Being the recipient of a number of deletions myself I must say the line between okay and not okay is extremely fine. A lot is based on the opinion of the mod doing the deletion.
Lord Funkyfist. I was actually waiting for Levelord to be banned. I had been watching the whole fiasco from the start. While I back him for complaining about the deletions I think he went too far in his complaints. I wrote to him about his deletions and was behind him on the reasons for some of the deletions. But to attack the mods in the manner he did went a little far.
Here are the rules of DeviantArts in reference to the situation of the deletions. I have highligted some of the rules
What is the policy concerning images depicting minors? Underage Individuals and Nudity If you are under eighteen (18) years of age you cannot legally be depicted nude, partially nude, in your undergarments, or in an erotic or other sexually driven manner in any deviation or scrapbook submission.
The following is a listing of situations which are prohibited;
1. Minors depicted without clothing, front view, back view, or side view, with genitalia and/or breasts visible or not.
2. Minors depicted in under garments or lingerie.
3. Minors depicted in an S&M or ‘Bondage’ situation.
4. Minors depicted in a sexual or 'alluring' pose (dressed or undressed).
5. Minors in the possession of ‘adult’ sexual toys.
6. No use of: transparent clothes, blurring of nude areas, or the use of “blots” or “Censored” wording or props to cover areas that are otherwise not clothed.
7. Gender that is questionable on an image with an exposed chest will be removed from the gallery at the discretion of the reviewing administrator
8. No Child Nudity: Images of children or characters resembling children (including teens, pre adolescent, child like fairies and other imaginary figures) resembling, or stongly resembling, under 18 years of age displayed in erotic, seductive, provocative poses or context.
9. No depictions of fictional young humanoid characters/children giving the appearance of being under the age of 18 displayed in erotic, seductive, provocative poses or context.
10. Since age is difficult to identify with 3D modeled images and certain art styles (such as Anime), this will be at the discretion of the reviewing administrator.
11. Babies in diapers will be allowed. Toddlers and younger children may be held to the restrictions stated above as judged on a case-by-case basis.
12. Fictional underage characters taken from popular television series, movies, or other sources portrayed as an "adult" in order to utilize one of these prohibited themes will be subjected to close scrutiny by staff. Such claims will be considered void in any case where the staff deems that significant and telling changes of the original underage character design were not attempted or that such efforts were inadequate.
Like or not folks those are the rules. This is direct from the DA site FAQ#249.
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Post by mrpotty on Feb 16, 2008 11:25:54 GMT -5
But still: If you complain on DA about a photography of a child, that shows it in some kind of visibly sexual inspired bondage position, the mods don't react. I guess they just wanna get rid of all the fan artists.
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Post by Captain Serge Stiles on Feb 16, 2008 11:27:03 GMT -5
And that is the more fancy way of when I said "children's cartoon characters, ones that have been aired as underage, in any sort of sexual situation," so I was right, whoot. LOL. Thanks for pulling that into an easy accessable place here in this thread, Kodak.
Mr. Potty: Or they haven't gotten around to it. DA is a huge site. Where has this happened?
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Feb 16, 2008 12:13:56 GMT -5
And that is the more fancy way of when I said "children's cartoon characters, ones that have been aired as underage, in any sort of sexual situation," so I was right, whoot. LOL. Thanks for pulling that into an easy accessable place here in this thread, Kodak. Mr. Potty: Or they haven't gotten around to it. DA is a huge site. Where has this happened? Well, obviously it's happened in the Kp area. I'll have to contact my cousin to find out if it's happened in any of the areas she inhabits on dA.
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Post by johnnys on Feb 16, 2008 12:14:21 GMT -5
I guess he probably did it in retaliation. He was complaining about his art being deleted when we chatted in MSN for quite some time. I've met Lev several times and he is a nice guy in person, and with his talent I'm sure there are other better place for him to share his artwork.
Well, if they keep turning away good artistes, someday they might turned out like a certain KP messageboard that has since been inactive (not RS.Net, obviously.).
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Post by fazhou on Feb 16, 2008 12:46:56 GMT -5
Levelord has been an amazing artist in the community, and I have been stunned at how much his technique has improved over just the last two years. He is one of the two illustrators for my KP fanfic, and has constantly been a great help to me in teaching me art technique. I am particularly sorry to learn his tutorials have been deleted from his gallery. In general, he has been a rather pleasant, nice guy.
Having said that, however, I know that he would have been better off if he had “finessed” this one rather than take the approach he did. When you double-dare someone to ban you, they might just do that. Moral of the story: don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
It would also have helped if he were more forthcoming with his intentions on his drawings. He has claimed that all of his drawings were “perfectly innocent,” but really, whom is he trying to kid? Kim in a bikini with cream squirted all over her? I’ll bet part of dA’s ire towards him stemmed from their thinking he’s been trying to play them for fools.
Yet, while I don’t agree with his approach, I agree with his message: there needs to be reform in the way dA regulates submissions. This “back end” way of regulating inevitably leads to arbitrariness, misunderstandings, back-biting, and hurt feelings—particularly when dA staff has to rely on moles among the general public to “rat out” potential policy violators, and when a deletion occurs, dA issues a generic message that gives very little feedback to the supposed rule-violator. One of my greatest misgivings is how deviantArt claims they “have no time” to search for policy violators themselves, which to me indicates either laziness or a great lack of thinking on their part. Surely if they created the “beast,” they can figure out a much better way to enforce rules.
As things stand now, there are plenty of “policy violators” among Kim Possible fan art at deviantArt—all you have to do is use their search feature and you’ll find them on the very first page. Some of them have been posted for months—and yet Levelord had 19 of his deleted in a single day. That is hardly consistent enforcement of the rules.
It would be far better if there was “front end” enforcement: that all submissions be approved before they are posted (and, ideally, artists given specific reasons for any rejections). Now, I can imagine deviantArt claiming they have no time to spend looking at every deviation that comes in for approval. Maybe that’s true at the moment, but don’t you think they could make a slight effort to find enough volunteers to end the chaos?
I’ll pose the question to deviantArt, but I doubt if they will adopt it. In that case, I think we Kim Possible fans would need to take the matters into our own hands. In other words, set up a panel of well-respected people in the community (maybe some of the VIPs could volunteer to help?) who would then quickly go through potential submissions and pre-determine if they likely meet dA’s guidelines. This panel’s function to deviantArt would be similar to what the Hays Office was to the movies. The number of submissions tagged by dA would then be very small, if not non-existant.
What do y'all think of that?
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Post by captainkodak1 on Feb 16, 2008 12:50:27 GMT -5
I would be for that.
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Post by Twila Starla on Feb 16, 2008 12:51:53 GMT -5
Somehow, this fails to shock me. I've seen some of his artwork, and while good, it can be quite suggestive. And by all accounts, Kim is still a minor, in a show made for miniors! And that sort of reaction doesn't help your cause.
Sad that he got banned though.
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