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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Jun 7, 2005 14:07:49 GMT -5
Yep I agree that they both had to mature in their own ways.
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jun 7, 2005 14:23:16 GMT -5
Hmm, I always thought that Erik was very like Ron but I never quite tagged on that maybe that's why Kim's attracted to him. Of course he's just modified so that he's not quite Ron of course, he's higher in the food chain and so not 'Ron' enough for Kim to actually love him. exactly - heck, look at his big entrance... Eric arrives on a VERY nice motorcycle, sliding into Ron's spot and commenting on how he likes Rufus. And we've already seen previously (although it was kind of muted on the broadcast but one of the deleted scenes on the DVD) how thrilled Kim is riding behind Ron on the scooter. So he's got a cool bike, good looks and likes the same things she does - and isn't scared of dating The Kim. I wouldn't be surprised if Bonnie had already made a play or two for him and been shrugged off by the time he "asks" Kim out. Sharp dresser, a bon-diggety dancer... just a step up the food chain from her Ron. Drakken knew exactly what he was doing, for once.
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Post by molonuk on Jun 7, 2005 16:19:26 GMT -5
Here's a sentence to sum up Erik, he is everything Kim likes about Ron personified, but Ron has everything she loves
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jun 7, 2005 16:55:59 GMT -5
Here's a sentence to sum up Erik, he is everything Kim likes about Ron personified, but Ron has everything she loves Amen, brother! high-five!
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Post by cloudmonet on Jun 7, 2005 19:46:00 GMT -5
Erik's also got a fair amount of Josh Mankey stirred into the program of his personality. The voice quality, the kind of "cool" manner, by which I mean the emotions he shows are rather more muted than Ron's, the quiet, almost aloof confidence. This, and Erik gloms onto Kim the moment he identifies her, sweeping away most of the nervousness she had with Josh. A blend of Ron and Josh? Gotta be appealing to Kim, and easier than dealing with Ron's less desireable traits and the social consequences.
Still, Kim's heart is pretty much split between Erik and Ron from the time she starts seeing Erik till the moment he betrays her. She never was sure her easy decision was the right one, and now, this humiliating and painful proof.
And then Ron, always Kim's personal cheerleader whenever she needs cheer, tells her exactly what to do: "It's payback time," and "I'm the guy for you," and that's exactly what Kim does, not because she's into following instructions, but because she realizes Ron is right.
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Post by j on Jun 8, 2005 2:21:38 GMT -5
I came up with an idea that really got me thinking; and I would really like input on.
What if . . . Eric had been Erica? And it was Ron, not Kim, that had been the subject of the relationship in So The Drama? How do you think Kim would have handled seeing Ron with a real girlfriend he was happy with? How heartbroken would Ron be when he found out the truth? And most of all, what would Kim have said to him when they were tied up together at BN headquarters?
I'm looking forward to everyone's opinion on this.
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Post by molonuk on Jun 8, 2005 3:57:58 GMT -5
Amen, brother! high-five! *returns high five* Sorry if I left you hanging for a moment (11 hours)!
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Post by cloudmonet on Jun 8, 2005 11:36:03 GMT -5
"What if . . . Eric had been Erica?"
This is an experiment that's already partly been done in "Gorilla Fist." Interestingly, Kim jumps to the conclusion that Ron's "secret girlfriend" is evil even when she isn't, so I don't think an evil Erica could go unmasked as long as Erik did.
But why would Drakken go after Ron? Despite a number of times when Ron's actually hurt or thwarted him, to Drakken, he's "that guy," "the buffoon," "the sidekick." Shego, in "A Sitch in Time," tries to weaken the team by removing Ron, but there's nothing to suggest Drakken would think of this.
But if he did, what then? A jealing Kim would do research on Erica as thorough as she did on Yori, and Wade would come up with an even more anomalous lack of information. If only Kim had thought to do a background check on Erik! Ron, on the other hand, wouldn't and didn't have any suspicions about him, even after his surly attitude when Ron and Wade revealed Drakken's plot to Kim at the prom.
And even if Kim and Ron somehow ended up tied up together in this scenario, I don't think it would play the same. Kim would be saying, "I told you so," not depressed at all, and forming a plan, and Ron could be saying, I don't know, "The only reason I fell for her is I can't have the girl I really want..."
Something like that might be enough to bring them together, but would it happen? Over and over through the episodes, it seems like whenever Ron says, "We're friends," he's looking for clues from Kim that this has to be the case. "Emotion Sickness" counters this to some extent, but Ron's reaction here could be attributed to 1) Kim's extreme behavior, and 2) Ron thinking too much.
I don't think an evil Erica is a likely a way to brink Kim and Ron together as evil Erik. I think by the beginning of "So the Drama" they both still need to change their minds about each other for romance to happen, but I think Kim with another guy gives them both a harder nudge than Ron with another girl would do.
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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Jun 8, 2005 11:39:22 GMT -5
Yep that about sums Eric up perfectly. Kim likes him for all his Ron features, and it is not until after she learns the truth that she sees what she liked in Eric was what she loved about Ron the whole time. It was really a masterful stroke by the writers to literally just coolize Ron's character, and show what Kim really loved.
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Post by campy on Jun 8, 2005 12:49:05 GMT -5
Not totally on topic here, but has anyone commented that Drakken's plan might have worked if he hadn't made Eric at all? Think about it: Ron would have been at the prom instead of at Bueno Nacho, so there would have been no advance warning before the Diablos attacked worldwide at midnight. Kim might never have made it within striking distance of Drakken's headquarters.
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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Jun 8, 2005 12:53:19 GMT -5
You're right. Eric really did play a vital role in things didn't he?
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jun 8, 2005 13:18:33 GMT -5
but in a way that's the irony of Drakken - he thinks TOO much about things before setting a plan in motion. and, of course, he couldn't pass up the chance to screw around with Kim's mind. more the fool he. thank goodness!
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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Jun 8, 2005 13:58:47 GMT -5
Yet it did seem like his plan to attack Kim mentally did work, but what he did not count on is Ron's love coming through for Kim and her realizing it.
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Post by campy on Jun 8, 2005 14:27:25 GMT -5
The only argument I can make in favor of Eric is that maybe he distracted Kim and kept her from figuring out Drakken's plan before D-day. Other than that I think Eric was definitely a net minus to the plan.
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Post by AgHorizonFilm on Jun 8, 2005 18:27:45 GMT -5
Well he was more physcological warfare to Kim than physical.
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Post by cloudmonet on Jun 8, 2005 19:23:21 GMT -5
"The only argument I can make in favor of Erik is that maybe he distracted Kim and kept her from figuring out Drakken's plan before D-day."
That's a huge plus right there. But don't forget, Erik also 1) surprised and captured Kim, 2) played a good game of "keep away" with Ron over the signal jammer gun, and 3) somehow lept to the tower and made an amazing catch of the signal jammer shot. Unfortunately for Drakken (and Erik), any puncture through a synthodrone's "skin" causes a fatal hemorrhage of syntho-goo, and Rufus was there with his sharp teeth.
[Without Erik] "Ron would have been at the prom instead of at Bueno Nacho, so there would have been no advance warning before the diablos attacked worldwide at midnight."
Maybe, but without Erik, Kim would have been more involved with Ron's concerns about the Bueno Nacho sitch, and might have noticed something suspicious much sooner. Erik's absence throws huge variables into the whole plot, and there's no way to know what would have happened, except for this-- There's a control signal, and over and over again Kim has defeated Drakken by shutting off his control signal. I have no doubts that somehow or other she'd manage to shut this one down.
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Post by Wysteria Fox on Jun 11, 2005 7:22:02 GMT -5
If you take one character out, no matter how minor(not that he was minor), things always change. Sure Kim and Ron probably would have worked things out sooner if Eric wasn't in the way, but how could they make an hour plus out of this? No offense, but that would make the movie seem way lacking. Like of void of plot holes...
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Jun 11, 2005 9:26:37 GMT -5
Yes it would have happened eventually, Eric just lit a fire under Ron and got him to think about it faster, but you could see hints throughout the series that they were eventually going to hook up.
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Post by cloudmonet on Jun 11, 2005 10:30:08 GMT -5
"You could see hints throughout the series that they were eventually going to hook up."
See "Reevaluation of K/R feelings, Season 2" and the equivalent season 1 thread for details, lots of details. The wonder isn't that they got together, but that they waited so long to do it. Well, there's also explanations for this-- more recently, the events of "Emotion Sickness" and "Bad Boy" had to make them both a bit hesitant.
K/R really was reaching critical mass by "So the Drama." If Kim and Ron didn't get together soon, someone else would get in the way, most likely someone not evil, and cue the jealousy, heartache, and doubts about the decision. Serious soap opera mess waiting to happen.
Next question: what about "Gorilla Fist"? Why wasn't Yori enough to make Kim tell Ron about her feelings, or at least stop being in denial about them. They were far in location and consciousness from Middleton High and Bonnie at that moment. Maybe Ron and Yori didn't go quite far enough to affect Kim as much as Erik affected Ron. What if Ron and Yori were sitting next to each other every evening with Kim across the table?
Kim almost seemed to be hoping Yori was evil, though. Ron had no expressed suspicions about Erik, even at the prom when Erik got surly about Ron and the diablos. Ron just seemed to think Erik was shallow, with not much going for him but good looks.
In the absence of jealousy caused by third party dating, what could have gotten Kim and Ron past the "we're just friends" barrior? Ron seems to need to make the first move, but Kim's not exactly letting him know she'll say yes. Any other ways to get past this impass?
Well, watch Kim's face at lunch, just before she sees Erik behind Ron. She almost looks receptive. Maybe they were about to get together. Maybe going to the prom together would have done it.
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Jun 11, 2005 12:13:31 GMT -5
Well if You look at steal wheels Kim was getting very Jealous when Felix and Ron were hanging out together but she still had trouble voicing it. My guess is she just has trouble voicing her feelings due to shyness. She was trying to drop hints of her feelings in "Gorilla Fist" but Ron was oblivious.
Well according to Monique this isn't the first time Kim's gone all Jeal, so my guess is shes just a jealous personality, as for thinking Yori was evil, well I think that has to do with Personality, my guess is Kim wanted an excuse to fight Yori (catfight!) so if she was evil she'd have an excuse.
Well I think it would have had to been Ron, Kim's too shy to do more than drop hints of her feelings and as we've seen Ron doesn't really understand girls.
I think the big thing was the whole Bueno Nacho sitch had Ron sort of occupied until Eric showed up so he wasn't focusing on things like the Prom.
Probably if Kim had asked Ron to the Prom something might have happened.
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