Well, I am back. School has been
Hezmana this semester. I have had little to no free time. In fact, I don’t really have free time now, but I wanted to see how this thread was doing. So I will lose a few hours sleep to post.
Man, have I missed a bunch.
Everyone seems to agree, which is good since it was said in the show, that Ron broke up with Kim because he was afraid of losing what he had. Makes since. It is really just a PG version of why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. Kim and Ron are dating for all intentions of the word, except the close physical intimacy. So, despite Ron’s obvious enjoyment of the close physical intimacy during ES why buy the cow and risk it running away?
One other thing that I want to mention is in relation to Ron’s apparent lack of insight towards the opposite sexes interest.
Am I the only person who never bought Ron’s “Tara/Yori liked me? I never knew.” Ron has shown several times in the series a very astute awareness of when girls like him; Penny, Bonnie, the Senior girl (I forgot her name), Zita, the French girls, and others. So then, this raises the question of why he never acted on Tara or Yori, or perhaps why he did react to the others.
Yori is pretty dang easy. At first she was not in close proximity. Half a world apart tends to put a damper on relationships. Honestly, I can’t even remember exactly where Kim and Ron sit in their feelings at Exchange. It is blatantly obvious that Kim is repressing her passion for Ron, but I really don’t remember where Ron is.
Tara is a different issue. At first I think that Ron was well into his pining for Kim phase and didn’t want to complicate it with Tara. Later, I am not sure why he didn’t act on it. Perhaps Tara was just too nice of a girl for him. I am firmly in the Ron is much smarter and more aware then we give him credit for camp (it seems to be a very small camp
). Ron knows how much time he and Kim spend together dating or not. In many regards I don’t think that Ron is willing to put a nice girl like Tara through a relationship like the one he could offer. He knows that when the time comes he will always abandon whomever he is dating, no matter what they are doing, to leave on a mission with Kim (one heck of a strong commitment to Kim there). Ron is too nice of a guy to do this to someone like Tara. This also fits nicely with the only girls that we do see him date, besides Zita, whom are all really snotty #$^@$%$ and not very nice.
So this then brings up Zita. If my hypothesis is correct, then why did he date Zita? We only see Zita twice. Once when he spends nearly the entire episode just trying to ask her out. (This episode also refutes whoever said that Ron doesn’t realize what he and Kim going on missions all of the time must seem like to others. He is very aware of what he and Kim walking together would seem like to Zita.) The other when it becomes painfully obvious that he doesn’t know hardly anything about Zita (very low level of intimacy). She is majorly into an online rpg and he doesn’t even know the name of it. Despite their “dating” status they don’t seem to spend much time together, nor know much about each other. Ron is also not comfortable enough around her to not fear rejection or judgement for not knowing about the game.
On the flip side of this coin, Rufus plays the game so much he is a legend, yet where did he play it? Ron has never heard of the game so he didn’t buy it for Rufus to play, but the Tweebs have it on their computer. This points very clearly to Ron spending a lot of time at Kim’s house which allowed Rufus to play the game on the Tweebs computer. So I don’t think that Ron and Zita were very serious. This also happened just after Kim gave Ron that devastating look about them dating. (That was incredibly harsh.)
I had this thought while at work today:
Ron runs over to Kim's house screaming in terror. It's the middle of the night, possibly on a schoolnight, and he's at her window. And she lets him in. He begs to stay the night. She doesn't even ask her parents. It's okay. He can have the couch.
We don't see the morning after. But I wonder if Mr. and Mrs. Possible are bothered by this? Or is Ron so much a part of the Possible family that they don't even notice anymore?
I wonder how much Ron’s parents are really home. I had just thought them very oblivious to Ron, but so much of Ron’s actions and what he gets away with almost point much more to a seriously dangerous level of latch-key syndrome.
It would explain why Ron is so good at cooking. If no one is there to cook for him then he would have to do it. It would also explain why he spends so much time at Kim’s house, and can get away with it. If no one is home then no one can tell him to come home. He is at Kim’s house when he is sick, he goes to her house in the middle of the night and there doesn’t seem to be any repercussions, he eats numerous meals at Kim’s house even breakfast (that one is especially odd).
This is also somewhat backed up by the reaction of Ron’s parents in many situations. Despite how well Kim’s parents seem to know and how closely they hold Ron to their hearts, Ron’s parents don’t seem to even hardly be aware of Kim. They show absolutely no emotional attachment at all to Kim in ASIT, and Ron’s mom’s reaction in Mother’s Day is downright painful in how little she seems to know, or care, about what Kim and Ron actually do. This moment also lends exceptionally strong evidence to the fact that Ron’s parents are not around much. How does Ron manage to go on all of Kim’s missions at any time of the day on virtually any day without trouble, yet the one time that we do see his mother and he together he is forbidden to go? The easiest and most logical explanation is that they aren’t there and even when they are they aren’t very aware of Ron.
This would also explain why they didn’t have any part in the loss of the 99 million dollars.
As for Mr. and Mrs. Dr. Possible, I really feel that they are so comfortable with Ron being around that most likely not much was even thought about it.
JupMod, while I respect your opinion and am not necessarily trying to change it, I want to see if I am following your thought process correctly.
Are you saying that the moodulator amped up Kim’s feelings of friendship to the point that they were manifested as romantic love, and not just any kind of romantic love but a type of romantic love that pushed the boundaries of the “jump your bones” romantic love that can be shown on Disney? If so then I have to disagree with this assessment of how it functions.
I base this off of my interpretation of love. English is a terrible language where the concept of love is concerned. We
love our family members, we
love our friends, we
love tv shows and other material objects, we
love our significant others, heck we even “make
love”. We use the word love for so many different and totally separate concepts and emotional feelings that it is no wonder we are having such a hard time with this.
One popular psychological theory of love that I like is
Sternberg’s Triangular Theory Of Love. In this theory there are three parts to love; intimacy, passion, and commitment. The quotes below are from
www.geocities.com/jucibooty/love.html a good laymens explanation.
Intimacy The emotional intimacy dimension of love is best characterized by feeling love for someone rather than being "in love" with them. The emotional intimacy dimension focuses on liking, friendship, trust and feelings of emotional closeness that result from being able to share one's innermost thoughts and feelings with a partner. Intimacy is achieved through a process by which one comes to know one's partner through increasing levels of self disclosure of one's thoughts and feelings. --[CUT]-- For emotional intimacy to flourish, both partners must be understanding, open, supportive, and must feel like they can talk about anything without fear of being rejected. As intimacy progresses, the partners will find that they share some degree of overlap in their values and beliefs about life; however, there will be differences in opinion to some degree as well. For intimacy to develop to its fullest, it is essential that both partners be able to forgive and to show compassion and kindness toward each other, especially when they disagree or make mistakes. Mutual respect and trust are essential to this process.I don’t think that anyone would argue that Ron and Kim are not highly intimate with each other. There is hardly anything that one doesn’t seem to know about the other, and they are extremely supportive of each other. However, there is still some room for them to become more intimate, especially as Kim learns to respect and trust Ron more and they explore each others feelings on sexual matters, which is actually a good sign for the health of their relationship.
Passion The passion dimension focuses on those intense feelings of arousal that arise from physical attraction and sexual attraction. Passion may also arise from increasing levels of self disclosure as intimacy develops in a relationship. Passion is that intense euphoric "high" that you may experience when you are in love - you feel euphoric - on top of the world - your heart races, and you get butterflies in your stomach. You yearn to to be physically close to and to join with the person - You often can't stop thinking about the person. At first, passion is often based on the more external qualities of how the person looks and acts, rather than on whether they share one's values, beliefs, interests or attitudes. Depending on the level of intimacy and commitment, the passionate aspect of love may include anxiety and uncertainty because one might not be sure that the feelings are mutual. Idealization of the person (seeing only their good qualities and projecting on them the qualities that you want them to possess) is also quite common when the passionate aspects of love are intense. Passion is typically most intense at the beginning of romantic relationships when you don't know much about the person and continues to be at high levels as self disclosure increases. Over time, as the relationship progresses (as you get to know your partner better and the physical arousal aspects habituate), the experience of passion diminishes.This one is of great importance for discussing Kim and Ron as being in eros (sexual) love. This is the component that is the most in question throughout the series. The level of passion that one feels for the other is really what is in question when we deal with if and when and how much Kim and Ron “love” each other. This is the primary determining factor between storge (friendship) and eros (sexual) love.
Interestingly, one fact that is commonly stated in all literature on love is that with growing intimacy passion tends to wane. This might be one reason that Kim and Ron are so comfortable unofficially “dating” without the high or expressed passion expected of a teenage romance. They are so intimate with each other that they don’t feel the strong urge for passion that most new, young lovers do. Interestingly, this also means that while the sexual part of intimacy will most likely really excite them I don’t see Kim and Ron going through that “lovey-dovey” stage of kissing all of the time with wild abandon. I think that they would more likely act like a long married couple, exchanging quick hugs and kisses to reaffirm their commitment and then quickly and easily moving on to other tasks as if it was no big deal. However, since they do share such a high level of intimacy I also think that, unfortunately, due to their high level of intimacy that they will move past the more restrained kissing and hugging into the more sexual more quickly then other couples.
This one is also very important when dealing with how the moodulator actually works. This is the only component that could be affected by the moodulator since the other two require knowledge and conscious choice.
Commitment The commitment dimension of love is often viewed as the decision to stay with one's partner for life. Commitments may range from simple verbal agreements (agreements not to become emotionally and/or sexually involved with other people) to publicly formalized legal contracts (marriage). However, commitment is more than simply agreeing to stay with your partner through bad times. Commitment means being devoted to doing things to nurture the relationship and protect it from harm and to fix it if damaged. Both partners care about each other's needs and must be willing to put each other's needs first - including being willing to make personal sacrifices for the good of the relationship. The partners should be willing to depend on each other and feel secure that each will be loyal to each other and to the relationship.This is another sticking point for Kim and Ron. The uncertainty of their commitment, with regards to passionate feelings, for one another is most likely what kept them from admitting any passion that one felt for the other. The very fact that each has tried dating others has to call into question that aspect of the commitment felt.
Different levels of each of these lead to the different types of love. As I was reading through this site I was struck at how much light this sheds on KP.
CONSUMMATE LOVE: Int, Pas, Com This is what we typically think of as our goal - a relationship that is passionate, emotionally intimate and committed. You are "in love" with your partner - the passion is definitely there, and you like them as a person. You communicate well and your communication with your partner enhances your feelings of closeness and your passion. You share feelings of closeness, friendship, warmth, and caring. You are committed to making the relationship last - doing things to nurture the relationship and protect it from harm and to fix it if damaged. Both partners care about each other's needs and must be willing to put each other's needs first - including being willing to make personal sacrifices for the good of the relationship. The partners should be willing to depend on each other and feel secure that each will be loyal to each other and to the relationship.This is where Ron and Kim are at the end of StD without a doubt. They unquestionably have high intimacy, they have just made formal the informal commitment that they have been living their lives by for nearly twelve years, and that kiss seals the debate about the passion.
This also seems to be where the Possibles reside. They seem to be highly commited and intimate, and while it isn’t shown their actions and body language seems to indicate a high level of passion also.
FATUOUS LOVE: Pas, Com This is typically what we think of as a whirlwind romance. It tends to start out with love at first sight and then soon after (before the partners know each other well), they commit to a long term relationship. It's very intense - almost an obsession. You can't get the person out of your thoughts. You long to be near them - to touch them - to merge with them. It's like being intoxicated. You experience lots of physical arousal and extreme highs in the beginning - you just know that they're the one for you - a match made in heaven. The problem is, you don't know who your partner is! If you get lucky, you've jumped into a relationship with someone who is compatible and over time (before the passion wears off) emotional intimacy will develop and you'll find that you are compatible. If you're not so lucky, you may find that as you get to know your partner as a person (rather than who you think they are) you might not like what you find. If you and your partner aren't compatible, then emotional intimacy can't develop. Then when the passion wears off, all that's left is commitment (and probably a lot of passionately angry/frustrated/hurt feelings).Don’t see a lot of this in KP.
COMPANIONATE LOVE: Int, Com This is what we typically think of as a "best friends" type love. It's the kind of love we might tend to find in long term relationships. You genuinely like the person and can talk to them about anything. You get the warm fuzzies from interacting with them. Feelings of closeness, friendship, warmth, and caring will tend to predominate. You trust them and care about them, but it doesn't have the intensity of passion that it used to have. Commitment to the relationship is well established. You can depend on your partner to be there through thick and thin.This is a given type of love for Kim and Ron by nearly everybody, if not everybody. The question then becomes the amount of passion that they are feeling for each other at the particular point in time.
While I do believe that passion can crest and wane, I don’t think that it can do so several times, and once introduced it is very hard to extinguish and once completely extinguished it is like raising the dead to bring it back. This is one reason that I think Kim and Ron have felt at least some level of passion for each other since nearly the beginning. If passion is glimpsed even once then it is a safe and logical assumption that it existed from that point on. Insecurities and uncertainties may have consciously repressed it back, but it was there.
This is also the type of love that exist between family members that are close. They have a predefined and expected commitment to each other and by the nature of their close proximity they tend to have a good deal of intimacy. This level of intimacy can of course differ based on trust. I am sure that Kim is much less intimate with the Tweebs then she is with her mother.
Leading to the major problem that I have with the way the moodulator works if it is allowed to introduce non-preexisting passion. As disgusting as this may sound if the moodulator is allowed to introduce passion from nothing then Kim should act towards the Tweebs and her father the exact same as she does toward Ron. This doesn’t happen and thus it seems more logical that the moodulator is only capable of amplifying a preexisting passion towards a person.
ROMANTIC LOVE: Int, Pas This is typically what we think of as "Romantic Love". You are drawn to your partner both physically and emotionally. This type of love shares the arousal and intensity of a passion based relationship, but differs in that there is more emotional intimacy. You love your partner for who they are, not because of who you think they are. You trust your partner and feel emotionally close to him or her. You can share your innermost thoughts and feelings without fear of rejection. You experience strong surges of passion when you share your thoughts and feelings with your partner. You haven't reached the point of making a commitment to stay together yet, but it's likely that if the relationship continues and remains fulfilling for both partners, then commitment will occur.This is not seen in the show, to my knowledge.
EMPTY LOVE: Com Depending on the culture, this may describe the terminal stage of a relationship or the beginning of a relationship. In cultures where one's partner is selected for you, the relationship begins based on commitment. Passion and emotional intimacy may develop later. In cultures where people select their partners based on love, it's likely that a commitment-only relationship has lost the passion and/or emotional intimacy it once had. For whatever reasons (financial, children, etc.), you are committed to staying in a relationship where you feel little passion toward you partner, and little emotional intimacy.This is another type of love that I do not remember seeing in the show.
INFATUATED LOVE: Pas This is typically what we think of as "Love at First Sight". It's very intense... almost an obsession. You can't get the person out of your thoughts. You long to be near them - to touch them - to merge with them. It's like being intoxicated. You are experiencing lots of physical arousal. This type of love produces extremes in highs and lows. If the other person feels the same, then you're on top of the world. However, if the person shows signs of not feeling the same way, you may experience the depths of despair. You may not know the person very well. You must be careful here not to let your feelings get you in too deep before you develop adequate emotional intimacy with this person to find out if you are compatible in terms of your values and beliefs and whether you potential partner has healthy interaction skills.This one is seen many, many times in KP. This is the type of love that Kim had for Josh and Hirotaka. This is also the type of love that Ron had for Zita. This might also explain why none of them lasted. As the couple became more intimate they realized that they didn’t share much in common, and thus there was no commitment.
This is the other problem that occurs with the moodulator introducing passion instead of amplifying it. If the moodulator introduces passion then Kim should act towards nearly all males as she did toward Josh, since it is impossible to introduce or amplify intimacy and commitment. This again didn’t happen. Since there was already a strong intimacy and commitment existing between Kim and Ron if the moodulator amplified preexisting passion then that would have moved Kim into the consummate love category and thus any latent infatuation felt towards other males would be subdued by the greater commitment to Ron. Does that make sense?
LIKING: Int This is what we typically think of as friendship. You genuinely like the person and can talk to them about anything. You get the warm fuzzies from interacting with them. Feelings of closeness, friendship, warmth, and caring will tend to predominate. You trust them and care about them, but it doesn't have the intensity of passion. There is also not much emphasis on commitment to maintain the relationship long-term; if circumstances change (such as changing jobs or moving to another city), the relationship may fade into the background.This is probably where Kim and Monique fall.
Now on to
Dimension Twist.
This really is not a very shippy episode, as many have already said. However, the Evil Eye part is rather important, since the romantic love of Kim and Ron really only comes down their feelings of passion for each other.
It is interesting though that despite the fact that each of them have seen the other naked, or at least in widely varied states of undress, more then once, indicating yet again the high level of intimacy that they share, that during the Evil Eye for the Bad Guy part they do seem to be eying each other in a passionate way. Nice screencaps CM.
This is really about the only part of the show that indicates an existing level of passion, and thus eros (sexual) love, between the two.
Anyway, this has been a long post, but I think a good one. I look forward to hearing what others have to say.