|
|
Post by Panther on Sept 17, 2005 18:07:26 GMT -5
I certainly do'nt consider that" angsty deatH". The death fics I hate are the fics when they describe "OMG CHARECTER 1 IS BLEEDING TO DEATH" and everyone's crying and it's dark and the charecters become Mary Sues and Charecter 1 and Charecter 2 kiss as Charecter 1 is dying and... oh god. I've read so many of those fics, and NONE are good.
And if that's what I considered The Ronless Factor angsty death, it wouldn't be my favorite fan fic. When's chapter 9?
EDIT: OH MY GOD THE TYPOS. Please ignore them.
|
|
|
|
Post by RavenStar on Sept 17, 2005 19:13:30 GMT -5
This isn't really a peeve, so much as an observation: Having a beloved character turn evil and then having them kill off somewhere near 50+ characters in the first chapter of the 3rd story in a trilogy of yours loses one a lot of readers who'd been following the trilogy up to that point...
And for a peeve, the fact that you can't put links in your Author Notes and stuff bugs the crap out of me. I can see why ff.net has that rule, but it's really annoying sometimes...
|
|
|
|
Post by Quin Separable on Sept 18, 2005 12:51:53 GMT -5
And for a peeve, the fact that you can't put links in your Author Notes and stuff bugs the crap out of me. I can see why ff.net has that rule, but it's really annoying sometimes... [shadow=red,left,300]Oh man I hate that! I tried to link a couple of Save KP websites at the end of one of my save kp stories and it wouldn't work *grumbles at FF.net*[/shadow] |
|
|
|
Post by bDd on Sept 22, 2005 4:47:05 GMT -5
yeah, a pet peeve! Not being able to show your nice work on ff.net. Is there anybody who got this experience, and can help me out? PM me, please.
I got writer's block. Can't think of anything else to add to my 'Eric Vs. Vin Credible' fic. Grrr!
|
|
|
|
Post by allaine on Sept 22, 2005 12:35:56 GMT -5
When someone wrote a Ron-commits-suicide fic, it was odd.
When the ninth or tenth person did it, it was downright obnoxious.
Sincerely, Allaine
|
|
|
|
Post by Quin Separable on Sept 22, 2005 18:27:17 GMT -5
When someone wrote a Ron-commits-suicide fic, it was odd. When the ninth or tenth person did it, it was downright obnoxious. Sincerely, Allaine Or any other character for that matter. And my favorite...doing so for no reason other than they suddenly get depressed...but with no logical explanation! Gah. |
|
|
|
Post by Eddie Butler III on Sept 22, 2005 18:57:39 GMT -5
-Begin Rant-
My things would be:
1. Grammar errors to the yahzu.
2. Spelling errors, uh, spell check? dictionary.com (suggested spellings there) google.com (suggested word there)
3. People when talking. New person, new paragraph. Switching person talking, new paragraph. I dont know how many times I have started reading a decent story and come upto this and it totally ruins it.
(Yes I know i may be a little hypocrytical with the spelling and grammer. But I have a slight thing with dyslexiya) But thats why you get someone to proofread(beta-read) your stories.
4. Very short chapters, like only 250-500 words per chapter? It seems to ends up the story being sounding like.
-Name- did this, this, this. Then -name- did this, this, and this. -name- did this, this, and this, and beat -villian-.
Very, Bland I feel, no description of the charaters, no depth, just words.
Ugh. -End Rant-
|
|
|
|
Post by bigpenguin on Sept 22, 2005 19:02:38 GMT -5
Spelling and grammer mistakes happen to the best of us but paragraph structure is a must. As Eddie Butler III says, the dialouge should be in its own paragraph.
|
|
|
|
Post by Korzon on Sept 22, 2005 20:29:15 GMT -5
Pet peeves...hmm....
Not having disney confess our skill and signing over KP to us?
On a more seroius note:
1. Suicide fics. There have been a few that have worked it out well, but especially those aimed at Ron often seem to underestimate his strength of will, and fundamentally, his stability.
2. Bonnie/Josh/Brick/etc. are EVIL! Now some have worked well-- I can't recall the name, but there were afew that convincingly showed how Bonnie's jealousy could have morphed into true hate, but turning them into some group of psychopaths that make Jack the Ripper look well adjusted both turns me off, and deprives the writer of some good themes. Bonnie isn't a problem to kim because she's evil-- she's a problem to kim because she's a school rival, and Kim can't handle her like she does her typical rogues gallery.
Again, some stories manage to be convincing, but others don't.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Dec 17, 2005 17:17:31 GMT -5
Another thing I cannot stand is poor writing. Some people sound like they are writing a flippin' encyclopedia or a "Dick and Jane" novel. Good grief. I cannot abide lousy writing. Especially from people who go all psuedointellectual about it. I suppose they need to work on the talent to improve it, but still...
|
|
|
|
Post by lonestarr357 on Dec 17, 2005 23:13:20 GMT -5
You sure plucked a nerve here:
- poorly-written stories; I see a lot of stories with poor spelling, non-existent structure, lack of paragraphs...and these stories still[/b] get more reviews than mine! Maybe if I start misspelling words, I can get 50 reviews per...
- character bashing; I bet I can count on one hand (and still have fingers left) the number of KP authors who treat Josh with respect.
- reader blackmail; I don't see this very often in the KP section, but I'm sure we've all run across it. Does this sound familiar: "If I get 20 reviews, I'll post the next chapter!". Any author who has to resort to this obviously a) doesn't trust in their story and b) isn't very good to begin with.
- flamers; these jerks are always there ragging on the slash stories. Here's a radical new idea: if you have a problem with it, don't freakin' read it!
- unfinished business; it's not as irritating as what I mentioned above, but still, I really don't like when authors concoct a story, then disappear without completing it. I'm sure there are reasons (personal life, death, writer's block), but it's a pain.
- swearing; this is a peeve unto itself. If the character seems like the type to be using the language (like a hardened criminal), then fine...but having someone like Ron spewing profanities sticks out like a sore thumb at a hitchhiker's convention.
|
|
|
|
Post by taechunsa on Dec 18, 2005 0:50:34 GMT -5
When someone wrote a Ron-commits-suicide fic, it was odd. When the ninth or tenth person did it, it was downright obnoxious. Sincerely, Allaine Or any other character for that matter. And my favorite...doing so for no reason other than they suddenly get depressed...but with no logical explanation! Gah. Is there ever a logical explanation for suicide? Another thing I cannot stand is poor writing. Some people sound like they are writing a flippin' encyclopedia or a "Dick and Jane" novel. Good grief. I cannot abide lousy writing. Especially from people who go all psuedointellectual about it. I suppose they need to work on the talent to improve it, but still... We need to be careful of this one. The vast majority of fanfiction writers are not trained in any way as writers. Many of them learn as they go, and experiment with many different styles. I look back at my first fanfiction and cringe. It was horrid in styling and structure, as well as grammar. When I was in school I hated grammar. I avoided it like the plague, and I am paying for it now. I have also never had a creative writing lesson in my life. I learned by posting poorly written stories and having better writers review and critique my writing while making suggestions. Having a good editor/pre-reader is another boon in this area. I feel that I have improved immensely, but I know that I still have a long ways to go. One thing that I find a bit disappointing about the KP community is that people are very hesitant to give critical reviews of fanfictions. I skim through the reviews for most stories and they are all praise. While this is good for boosting the writer's confidence it really does little to help them improve. I have found that I had fallen into this trend as well. So, I have tried to stop doing it. I always try to find at least one area of the story that I feel could have been better and point it out, hopefully with an example of how I think it could have been improved or at least why I felt it was a bit off. Without this how is anyone actually supposed to improve? As for pet peeves. Well, my biggest is the lemming syndrome. One person jumps off of a cliff and everyone else blindly follows. One example of this is the use of the term 'Team Possible'. Nowhere in the show has anyone ever referred to Kim, Ron, Rufus, and Wade as Team Possible. Yet, how many fanfictions have been written where the term is applied as if it is canon and even often used as the basis for a semi-major plot element. This one is often used to point out how egotistical Kim is despite the fact that she is never shown in the show to ever use the term. Another example of this was pointed out above, Josh is evil. There is really no evidence for this in the show at all. It is okay, and can be used very well, as Paragon effectively showed, but it gets tiresome when others simply blindly follow this with no support built into the story for a reason. Paragon had a great supporting story and was a major reason why it worked so well. |
|
|
|
Post by Ezbok58a on Dec 18, 2005 1:19:46 GMT -5
Actually the characters and being evil thing was something I was initially guilty of. In most of my stories, at least the long planned out ones I always make Josh either the bad guy, or I just kill him out right. Granted in the two stories I finished that Josh actually died, both were needed. (Horrors of War he ends up being driven to madness, and In the Car Comes to Middleton he gets it from the Evil Car) I do bad things to Josh, not because I am conforming to what all the other fanfic writers do, but because I have a underlying resentment towards Josh. I was exactly like Josh in high school, however I did not have the cheerleaders crushing on me, and wasn't classified as a 'hottie'. Josh is everything I wasn't, and it gets to me. (NO artist has money or is that popular with the ladies.)
Actually most great artists had real deep psychological problems that now that I'm thinking about it, is why I do what I do to Josh. He wants to be a artist type, he gets it full kilt.
But that's just me.
As far as pet peeves go.
Short chapters and or written like a screenplay (ex Kim: bla,bla -space- Ron: yada, yada)
We're not aditioning for a play, write out the dialogue and stop being lazy.
Stories where things happen that don't make any sense
example: Kim was kidnapped and may be dead
OK Ron, I believe you
WTF is that? Just because you got it doesn't mean the rest of us with a IQ greater than yours could figure out how someone could respond to something so serious and unbelievable without question 
Usually any story that results in either Ron or Kim dying, or having Ron or Kim kill each other out of fits of anger
Granted, Pargon pulled it off exceptionally well. It read like I watching a episode of KP (albeit much darker). But with Kim killing Ron, and the suicide at the end just made me feel very depressed.
Usually anystory I read that has either Kim die or Ron die leaves me feeling really depressed (and I usually can't sleep that night either)
Now there are some stories that involve death of Kim or Ron that have pulled it off without me feeling depressed (The one where Ron is a ghost, the one done by Miss Piratess). And I applaud their authors on that. |
|
|
|
Post by surforst on Dec 18, 2005 1:33:42 GMT -5
I have found that I had fallen into this trend as well. So, I have tried to stop doing it. I always try to find at least one area of the story that I feel could have been better and point it out, hopefully with an example of how I think it could have been improved or at least why I felt it was a bit off. Without this how is anyone actually supposed to improve? As for pet peeves. Well, my biggest is the lemming syndrome. One person jumps off of a cliff and everyone else blindly follows. I can personally vouch for taechunsa ripping apart my story. I just wanted to write one fic! Anyway I have to agree here. The thing is it is so easy to fall into the lemming trap. I don't like the whole kim treats Ron as an object thing but taechunsa helped me realize I was doing the same thing in one of my stories. Go fig on that. I can't confirm the team possible usuage but I'll at least try to avoid the Josh thing in my stories. I like to try to write the guy as more human but not in Ron eyes mind you. He hates the guy after all and I don't care if that's cannon. That's real life he is Kim ex after all. I must admit I've been guilty of being a little too nice. One person I tried to help out with the spelling errors ignored my advice so she/he never got another review. That's how I handle it. I think most of us truly don't know what we are doing. I haven't read a story yet that I'd pay money for and that's not an insult against the community. For all of us this is just a hobby and a few time we will stumble. I've messed up a few stories myself despite my attempts to avoid it. I learn as I go after all. Hey I only had Kim murder Ron once. I'd put something in her defense but ya she's going to fry probably. Poor guy. Personally I blame it on the little shadow of death. Kid is creepy the way everyone around him just suddenly decides to kill someone. Though I'd personally suggest tapping into that and using it for the war on terror. Drop him in Iran and a few months latter the country won't exist anymore. Victory! |
|
|
|
Post by Ezbok58a on Dec 18, 2005 1:48:28 GMT -5
It wasn't you're story I was getting at surfrost. I actually liked the way you had that go, not too many people have pulled off a insane Kim.
I was going on about how the tradgety stories I read involve something happening to Kim, who for no good reason blames on Ron, and kills him in a fit of rage (Seen it done at least 4 times) and then realizing what she did and curling up into a ball and crying.
And its made worse by the fact that its usually done in the first chapter of the story.
I simply cannot see Kim or even Ron doing anything like this to each other, no matter what event happened. And I, particualary don't want to read a story that only involves Kim or Ron, without the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by apoptosis on Dec 18, 2005 3:06:36 GMT -5
Ahhh, my pet peeves in fanfiction.  - Internet slang. "Kim, how r u?" Ron asked. "OK. u?" Kim answered. "good. ur cut3!" Ron blushed. - Mispelings and bad grammer where sentance structur are all messed up! oh and lack of Proper capItaliZAtion as weLL. also...too...many...ellipses...where...they...really...aren't...necessary...and...only...one...or...two...would...have...done. And misued words (they're v. there v. their). And no paragraph brakes - oh my eyes, my eyes!! - Blatent OOCism. As a Kigo shipper, there is SOME stretching of the imagination, but I like the challenge of seeing how well I can write a fic and keep both Kim and Shego as much IC as they are in the show, but still find sitations where they deal with each other on just a platonic level, or romantic level...but other than that, stuff like this: The redhead blinked, her once brillliant and shining emerald eyes now dull and lifeless. A defeated sigh escaping her lips, she held up the silver razor to her bedside lamp, tilting it to make the light play across the metal surface. She cast her dark eyes to her forearm, taking unconscious notice of the faded and only slightly red scars tracing ragged zigzag patterns across her pale skin...and tonight...tonight another path would etch it's way down her vein. And if the crimson flow wasn't enough to help her escape the world, and jerk her away from reality for a few hours, there was always her secret stash of sleeping pills. (etc) - Ooooh, what happens next, eh? I'll tell you when I get another 20 reviews, so review if you want to read more! |
|
|
|
Post by surforst on Dec 18, 2005 3:57:08 GMT -5
It wasn't you're story I was getting at surfrost. I actually liked the way you had that go, not too many people have pulled off a insane Kim. I was going on about how the tradgety stories I read involve something happening to Kim, who for no good reason blames on Ron, and kills him in a fit of rage (Seen it done at least 4 times) and then realizing what she did and curling up into a ball and crying. And its made worse by the fact that its usually done in the first chapter of the story. I simply cannot see Kim or even Ron doing anything like this to each other, no matter what event happened. And I, particualary don't want to read a story that only involves Kim or Ron, without the other. You actually read that story. Review man! Though it was a murder mystery for me personally it was more of a humor story. Not in a sick way but I just found the concept funny. By the way after reading that bit about Kim killing Ron like that I've just got to write a parody. I'll have her push Ron out of a plane or something without a parachute. Concept just cracks me up. Laughing even as I write this. By the way what stories involve Kim just killing Ron for no reason. I've never read any though I've seen a few where Kim was an utter female dog when it came to Ron. "Ron your such a loser that I hope you get shot by a 400 lbs cannon aimed right at your man-hood. You know what I doubt you have one!" Ouch! |
|
|
|
Post by The Marvelous Me on Dec 18, 2005 5:55:51 GMT -5
1. Misspelled words. I'm guessing that most people type their stories in a program like Microsoft Word and as such the program probably has a spell check feature. USE IT!!!
2. Unfinished stories. Now I know that sometimes certain things can happen; family problems, school, writers block, that will prevent you from posting the remander of a story. I have a simple solution though. Don't post any of your story until it is complete and when you do, post the entire thing.
2. continued. If you just have to post your story one chapter at a time, before the entire thing is finished and you suddenly find yourself unable to continue please give some sort of an update. It doesn't have to be much, maybe just a quick note saying that you don't have anytime to focus on the story right now but will get back to it when you can or that you have just given up on it. Just so that us readers aren't sitting there wondering if the story will ever continue.
3. OOC. Now I'm not always completely in character and I'm all for expanding the characters, whether it be them growing older or perhaps being in situations you wouldn't see on the Disney Channel. However there is a limit. I'm following a story and I have no idea who the author is off the top of my head but Kim and Ron are really out of character. At least in my open. This story is part of a trilogy. It can be found on fanfiction.net and is called equal romance I believe.
Now minor SPOILERS FOR THE STORY HERE................................................................................
In the story, Kim and Ron are hit with a wish granting ray. They don't know what it does and at some point while holding hands, Ron wishes that he could hold Kim's hand forever. His wish is granted and they are stuck holding hands. Throughout the story they fall in love and get together. Then Ron suddenly realizes that he can here Kim's thoughts. Well at the end Kim realizes the same thing and she misinterprets Ron's thoughts. Kim thinks that Ron did the whole thing on purpose and that he only wants her for sex. Her suspicions are confirmed when a condom falls out of his pocket. Now in the second story, Kim thinks that Ron is constantly trying to rape her. That is definetly out of character for both Kim and Ron.
I think that's pretty much it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Dec 18, 2005 10:37:00 GMT -5
Another thing I cannot stand is poor writing. Some people sound like they are writing a flippin' encyclopedia or a "Dick and Jane" novel. Good grief. I cannot abide lousy writing. Especially from people who go all psuedointellectual about it. I suppose they need to work on the talent to improve it, but still... We need to be careful of this one. The vast majority of fanfiction writers are not trained in any way as writers. Many of them learn as they go, and experiment with many different styles. I look back at my first fanfiction and cringe. It was horrid in styling and structure, as well as grammar. Granted, I will admit this. But the fact remains that so many writers refuse to improve. I also put an age category on things. I'm a teacher, so I judge writing according to their age group. There are fics written by ten years old where I am amazed at their ability to write well, but if that same story were written by a high school or college student...   There's a big difference, you see. Oh, I always love it when people criticize my work. Not flame them (there is a huge difference in my mind between a flame and a healthy criticism--tbough I figure if I get enough flames I probably deserved them), but a good detailed criticism. I've gotten to a point in my writing where I like throwing my stuff to wolves. Though I figure I can always leave grammar criticism to spell check or my friend with the sick obsession with grammar, but I love criticisms on characters, plots, and writing in general. taechunsa is a marvelous critic of characterization and plot.  I guess a problem is that so many writers refuse criticism. These are the aforementioned psuedointellectuals. That's probably what bothers me the most--a refusal to take criticism. I will occassional read poorly-written stories, and these stories will have the most excellent and creative plot imaginable. And it would be that much better if they can write it out. So yes, I will admit that many writers use fanfiction to work on their writing skills (it's one of the things I use it for--I figure if you can't write someone else's character, how can you keep your own in line?) But I would prefer them writing with an effort to improve. I like what you said about leaving a criticism. It's something I try to do as well. Give them something positive, and give them something they should work on. Of course, I have run into many fics that I simply can't criticize... and that actually makes me feel like a pathetic fangirl. But it's true: it's a brilliant story and what else am I supposed to say? |
|
|
|
Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Dec 18, 2005 10:49:25 GMT -5
Actually the characters and being evil thing was something I was initially guilty of. I do bad things to Josh, not because I am conforming to what all the other fanfic writers do, but because I have a underlying resentment towards Josh. I find that perfectly fine. I guess it gets awkweird in discussion when what you firmly believe in becomes a cliche.  Depends on how short the chapter is, I don't mind them, but I have seen the occassion in which, I swear, paragraphs are individually posted. No, a chapter does not necessarily have to be the size of a small novel, but a chapter should cover a whole event or two. As for the play... I refuse to read multi-chapter fics in script format. It's not necessary. HOWEVER, some ficlits just need to be in script format because, quite honestly, they're funnier that way. The nature of the fic just calls for a script format. I've written a couple of one-shots of this nature that I even tried to put in normal mode. They just didn't work out; the magic was lost. And frankly I got a lot better opinion on them in their play format. I know! At least put believing character in emotional and/or psychological pain where they might be more subject to gullibility, if you can't be any more intelligent! Why, thank-you! Other things I must discuss: OOCism: I will be the first one to admit that we only see so much of a character in the series. You only see them in so many situations, reacting in only so many emotions. Yes, a lot is up to interpretation. Yes, there is a lot of opinion that goes into writing a character in fanfiction. But then again, the characters are already characters! You must keep to what you DO know of the character! To play devil's advocate, I will also admit that some parody or just-plain-silly stories have OOCness ON PURPOSE!!! And because this is a silly, parody story, it's dang funny. And you can tell that the author realizes exactly how the character should act and is purposely straying away from that. It's most hilarious, in certain fics. People not finishing fics: Goodness me, but I am sadly guilty of this. Some I ignore and hope they will vanish on their own, I'm that bad. But I really don't like to finish a story before I post things. I'm looking for reader opinion and criticism, and it's just not worth to rewrite everything. I've changed things from what I've intended just by reader feedback. |
|
There's a big difference, you see. 
