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Post by BigBlue4u2 on Oct 8, 2007 7:51:09 GMT -5
Slick, do you realize that it is because of attitudes like yours that this fandom will never be at peace?  I'm a realist. *assumes best Monty Python King Arthur voice* "You're a looney." No, no, I'm only kidding with you.  ;D I like K/R. I also like to explore the "what if..." You know, like fiction. As in fan fiction. As in the whole show is fiction. *shrugs* I don't prefer any pairing over another. If I want canon, I hop over to my iTunes and start watching. If I want something else, I hop over to FF. Fanfiction started because people wanted to explore the "what-if" of their favorite stories. Because they wanted to see certain things happen. And yeah, that gets painted by the views of the person writing the fic. So, the importance of canon? It gives us a starting point. A common beginning. Where we go on the journey of discovery with the characters is up to us, the writers and readers. Either it's all OK to change and to expand on, or nothing is. *hugs SlickNickShady* Friends? |
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Post by BigBlue4u2 on Oct 8, 2007 8:03:51 GMT -5
But it one's going to argue that the show offers the latitude for Kim to become gay, then they should concede there are enough gaps for her to be credibly portrayed as homophobic. Well said.  Well, I think the truce has just been signed ending the 'Shipping Wars?. Here we have the "Canonites" concession that the show offers the latitude for Kim to be gay. (Hint: if you accept one side of a conditional argument, you must accept the other side of the argument, or else proclaim that the argument is not valid.)  |
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Post by JuPMod on Oct 8, 2007 8:15:46 GMT -5
So, you have four categories now: T/D T/ND R/D and R/ND, examples would be: T/D = Kim and Ron get married (Relationships are still respect from the show and it could appear on Disney) T/ND = Shego and Drakken kill Bonnie (Relationships are still respected, would not happen on Disney) R/D = Kim dumps Ron for Junior (New relationship created that was not on the show, but could appear on Disney) R/ND = Kim and Shego get it on at villians camp (New relationship + not a Disney story) As a reader, you simply can choose what stories you like and avoid the offensive material. It would be a simple system once you got used to it. ....and isn't that the major problem here? What stories to avoid and how to distinguish them? The importance of canon to the READER is how they would choose their stories. Hmmmm... I say logically that this would make sense. Just my gut feelings are giving me bad vibes that this whole ratings thing smacks of author segregation and would make further rifts in the KP community as it is. IMO, if some writers want to use this system, I say it's okay. Just that this system should not be enforce on all writers regardless, given this is just a discussion on just one board among just a few in the writing community. |
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Post by Commander Argus on Oct 8, 2007 8:17:14 GMT -5
FF.net already has a bunch of junk to pigeonhole fics, some of which is too vague to be any use. I personally prefer to let my rep speak for itself.
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 8, 2007 8:18:08 GMT -5
I'm a realist. *assumes best Monty Python King Arthur voice* "You're a looney." No, no, I'm only kidding with you. ;D I like K/R. I also like to explore the "what if..." You know, like fiction. As in fan fiction. As in the whole show is fiction. *shrugs* I don't prefer any pairing over another. If I want canon, I hop over to my iTunes and start watching. If I want something else, I hop over to FF. Fanfiction started because people wanted to explore the "what-if" of their favorite stories. Because they wanted to see certain things happen. And yeah, that gets painted by the views of the person writing the fic. So, the importance of canon? It gives us a starting point. A common beginning. Where we go on the journey of discovery with the characters is up to us, the writers and readers. Either it's all OK to change and to expand on, or nothing is. *hugs SlickNickShady* Friends? I agree with everything in that post. You took my thoughts right out of my head. *shoves Slick out of the way and hugs bigblue* |
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Post by mike on Oct 8, 2007 8:18:53 GMT -5
So, you have four categories now: T/D T/ND R/D and R/ND, examples would be: T/D = Kim and Ron get married (Relationships are still respect from the show and it could appear on Disney) T/ND = Shego and Drakken kill Bonnie (Relationships are still respected, would not happen on Disney) R/D = Kim dumps Ron for Junior (New relationship created that was not on the show, but could appear on Disney) R/ND = Kim and Shego get it on at villians camp (New relationship + not a Disney story) As a reader, you simply can choose what stories you like and avoid the offensive material. It would be a simple system once you got used to it. ....and isn't that the major problem here? What stories to avoid and how to distinguish them? The importance of canon to the READER is how they would choose their stories. Hmmmm... I say logically that this would make sense. Just my gut feelings are giving me bad vibes that this whole ratings thing smacks of author segregation and would make further rifts in the KP community as it is. IMO, if some writers want to use this system, I say it's okay. Just that this system should not be enforce on all writers regardless, given this is just a discussion on just one board among just a few in the writing community. There shouldn't be a system at all... I mean what if your fiction doesn't fall in one of the categories, the you shouldn't post the fiction??? |
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Post by MrDrP on Oct 8, 2007 8:19:58 GMT -5
Well said. Well, I think the truce has just been signed ending the 'Shipping Wars?. Here we have the "Canonites" concession that the show offers the latitude for Kim to be gay. (Hint: if you accept one side of a conditional argument, you must accept the other side of the argument, or else proclaim that the argument is not valid.) Sorry, but no such concession was offered. All I wrote was that if one were to adopt the line of thinking that allowed Kim to be gay, one had to accept the idea that she could be homophobic. The onus here is on those who want to see Kim as gay, not on those who you lable "Canonites." |
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Post by mike on Oct 8, 2007 8:26:48 GMT -5
Well said. Well, I think the truce has just been signed ending the 'Shipping Wars?. Here we have the "Canonites" concession that the show offers the latitude for Kim to be gay. (Hint: if you accept one side of a conditional argument, you must accept the other side of the argument, or else proclaim that the argument is not valid.) Or you can deny both the antecedent and consequent |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 8, 2007 8:37:53 GMT -5
...If your story could be shown on Disney (the source of KP), then it would be KP Universe. If not (i.e. lesbian sex, mutilation, murder, etc.) then it would be Alternate Universe. A more simple classification would be "D" for Disney type story and "ND" for Non-Disney Hmmm.... I wrote a story before that, while certainly within Disney's content range, was a spoof of the legal sytem and the Disney corporation that Disney wouldn't ever air. (My most popular fic, Kim... PROPERTY!?!?) I wonder, would that fall under Disney or Non-Disney? |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 8, 2007 8:41:22 GMT -5
...If your story could be shown on Disney (the source of KP), then it would be KP Universe. If not (i.e. lesbian sex, mutilation, murder, etc.) then it would be Alternate Universe. A more simple classification would be "D" for Disney type story and "ND" for Non-Disney Hmmm.... I wrote a story before that, while certainly within Disney's content range, was a spoof of the legal sytem and the Disney corporation that Disney wouldn't ever air. (My most popular fic, Kim... PROPERTY!?!?) I wonder, would that fall under Disney or Non-Disney? Considering you just said they'd never air it, I believe you answered your own question. |
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Post by BigBlue4u2 on Oct 8, 2007 9:39:12 GMT -5
A romantic relationship between an 18 year old teen and a man in his 40s is indeed dark and scary. The difference in age and experience would create a very unhealthy dynamic. Further, while an 18 year old may legally be an adult that doesn't mean adult maturity has been reached. So the age difference is what makes it dark and scary? So, what is an acceptable age difference? Would a 25-year-old dating a 45-year-old make your skin crawl? Or is it that immature 18-year-olds should not be involved in serious relationships? When it comes to maturity, you're right. Age is not a very good indicator. Be it 18 or 50, or whatever. Or younger or older, or whatever. Well, I think the truce has just been signed ending the 'Shipping Wars?. Here we have the "Canonites" concession that the show offers the latitude for Kim to be gay. (Hint: if you accept one side of a conditional argument, you must accept the other side of the argument, or else proclaim that the argument is not valid.) Sorry, but no such concession was offered. All I wrote was that if one were to adopt the line of thinking that allowed Kim to be gay, one had to accept the idea that she could be homophobic. The onus here is on those who want to see Kim as gay, not on those who you lable "Canonites." Aw, shucks. And here I thought we were all about to make s'mores and stand hand-in-hand on the mountaintop and sing coom-boo-ya. *sighs* I think I'm going to use Kim being uncomfortable around gays in my upcoming Riske fic. I hadn't planned on it, as I want them to remain friends, but this could be a good source of friction. Kind of a coming to terms thing. Oh, and sorry if the "Canonites" thing is a bad word, I didn't mean anything negative by it. Kinda reminds me of the time I said "Japanimation" on an anime.muck telnet I was a member of. Whoo, THAT got ugly! Open mouth, insert foot.  |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 8, 2007 9:41:39 GMT -5
Hmmm.... I wrote a story before that, while certainly within Disney's content range, was a spoof of the legal sytem and the Disney corporation that Disney wouldn't ever air. (My most popular fic, Kim... PROPERTY!?!?) I wonder, would that fall under Disney or Non-Disney? Considering you just said they'd never air it, I believe you answered your own question. Well, I wasn't sure. The reason is because it has a spoof of them, and the big D doesn't seem to have a sense of humor about that kind of thing. |
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Post by BigBlue4u2 on Oct 8, 2007 9:59:25 GMT -5
...If your story could be shown on Disney (the source of KP), then it would be KP Universe. If not (i.e. lesbian sex, mutilation, murder, etc.) then it would be Alternate Universe. A more simple classification would be "D" for Disney type story and "ND" for Non-Disney I think we can strike the word "lesbian" there. I don't think Disney is going to be broadcasting straight cartoon sex either, not anytime soon. I mean, they won't even let Kimmie wear a bra. Poor girl, she has to go commando because Disney won't allow the animators to draw women's undergarments. (But the canon of Kim not wearing underwear is a different discussion...) |
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Post by Alexlayer on Oct 8, 2007 10:58:23 GMT -5
(But the canon of Kim not wearing underwear is a different discussion...) Well, at least that explains why she is so pointy. [/offtopic] |
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Post by dracko19 on Oct 8, 2007 11:06:30 GMT -5
FF.net already has a bunch of junk to pigeonhole fics, some of which is too vague to be any use. I personally prefer to let my rep speak for itself. cpneb (ff.net admin/mod) has been floating the discussion of classifications in this thread. I'm meerly participating in an effort to help. If these suggestions are met with trepidation, please ignore them. I am simply offering a solution to a problem that has been pointed out in this thread among the fiction community. |
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cpneb
Yellow Trout
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Post by cpneb on Oct 8, 2007 17:37:20 GMT -5
FF.net already has a bunch of junk to pigeonhole fics, some of which is too vague to be any use. I personally prefer to let my rep speak for itself. cpneb (ff.net admin/mod) has been floating the discussion of classifications in this thread. I'm meerly participating in an effort to help. If these suggestions are met with trepidation, please ignore them. I am simply offering a solution to a problem that has been pointed out in this thread among the fiction community. first, I'm an admin for my board and a moderator for Zaratan's board. second, I'm a writer. third, I'm a reader (started there, first....) We have to remember that ff.net is not build for the posters of most boards, but for the readers that 'stumble' onto it and find a story or two to read; those are, whether we like it or not, include individuals under the age of 18 (in the US). Anything that we can do to assist the board's survival in the open environment is crucial; the alternative would be a pay-to-post stories or a pay-to-read, neither is acceptable to me. The idea has been floated in the past.... If I had the funds, I'd buy the thing (as would several others if they had the same sitch) and eliminate the problem by instituting some very simple guidelines, similar to what's already in place today. Adding a bit more protection to the writer and reader would be the guideline.... The 'shipping wars' will occur, regardless of what I say or do: some individuals who beliefs are so radical as to deny the existence of the other ship will never change and, therefore, my energy can't go to them. My energy has to the other 95-98% of the authorship/readership who are willing to consider the 'possibility,' even if they don't agree with the other ship. As my original proposal has generated the needed discussions, I have received alternative suggestions. I am considering pulling my original suggestion and offering up an alternative; should that occur, it will occur later this week. I thank all of you who offerer constructive criticism and proposals as well as those who, even with no alternatives, participated in civil discussions. Like it or not, I'll be back (as will I continue to lurk here more than in the past), with the initial intent to promote new writers coming on the ff.net site (such as kt of jakt, producing her first KP fanfic and, to date, with 16 reviews in under 48 hours). Not bad for an 11-year-old: she, we must always remember, represents that target audience that we claim to represent, not the 20+ year old males or the 50+ year old farts (like yours truly). Until later, I am: cpneb: the Jade-Shipper |
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Post by Luke Danger on Oct 8, 2007 20:24:12 GMT -5
So, you have four categories now: T/D T/ND R/D and R/ND, examples would be: T/D = Kim and Ron get married (Relationships are still respect from the show and it could appear on Disney) T/ND = Shego and Drakken kill Bonnie (Relationships are still respected, would not happen on Disney) R/D = Kim dumps Ron for Junior (New relationship created that was not on the show, but could appear on Disney) R/ND = Kim and Shego get it on at villians camp (New relationship + not a Disney story) As a reader, you simply can choose what stories you like and avoid the offensive material. It would be a simple system once you got used to it. ....and isn't that the major problem here? What stories to avoid and how to distinguish them? The importance of canon to the READER is how they would choose their stories. Hmmmm... I say logically that this would make sense. Just my gut feelings are giving me bad vibes that this whole ratings thing smacks of author segregation and would make further rifts in the KP community as it is. IMO, if some writers want to use this system, I say it's okay. Just that this system should not be enforce on all writers regardless, given this is just a discussion on just one board among just a few in the writing community. I like that idea... big time. And mike, I think it covers just about every possible cateogry, only one missing would be just plain 'won't happen in Disney', which is ND |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Oct 8, 2007 22:28:59 GMT -5
Why does everything have to be so dern shippy? It's suddenly like the whole canon/non-canon debate is based on who gets with whom.
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 8, 2007 22:44:15 GMT -5
Why does everything have to be so dern shippy? It's suddenly like the whole canon/non-canon debate is based on who gets with whom. To be honest, I don't care how everyone wants to classify, organize, categorize, and whatever else-ifize fanfics, just as long as I get to read them. What I don't agree with is this idea that non-KR pairings are somehow evil and unjust simply because they're not canon. I like Kim and Ron as a couple, but sometimes I wished they'd just stayed friends on the show just so everybody could calm the heck down with all this stuff. |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Oct 8, 2007 22:46:34 GMT -5
Why does everything have to be so dern shippy? It's suddenly like the whole canon/non-canon debate is based on who gets with whom. To be honest, I don't care how everyone wants to classify, organize, categorize, and whatever else-ifize fanfics, just as long as I get to read them. What I don't agree with is this idea that non-KR pairings are somehow evil and unjust simply because they're not canon. I like Kim and Ron as a couple, but sometimes I wished they'd just stayed friends on the show just so everybody could calm the heck down with all this stuff. I don't think non-KR is necessarily un-canon. The author just has to make me believe it in the context of the characters. |
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;D
