On the importance of Canon

[Mickey]

Every story written by a fan is non-canon. That's why it's called fan fiction. Unless you've been secretly hired by Disney to write scripts for season five, than your stories are no closer to canon than anyone else's and no one else's stories are closer to canon than yours. Just like all men are created equal, all fan fiction is written equal. What should separate good fiction from bad fiction, and great fiction from good are things like:

• How IC or OOC the characters are.
  
• How creative, original, and well written it is.
  
• Spelling/Grammar

With that in mind, here's my rather simple suggestion to this whole conundrum about how to classify fiction. I have come up with a step by step outline that's so easy to understand, even Drakken or Mego can follow along.

• Everyone realize that as long as an author isn't making characters act OOC, then everything else is fair game to modify, and this includes relationships. Relationships do not define who the characters are, as most of them ended the series with someone different than they started with. Debatable exceptions might be the Stoppables and the Possibles and any other married couples that aren't coming to mind right now.
  
  
• Armed with the knowledge that everything is fair game and all changes are equally valid (i.e. writing KiGo is every bit as valid as Kim/Ron) a reader then browses FF.net or here looking for the style they prefer.
  
  
• If you run across a fan fiction done in a style you dislike or takes a direction you'd rather not follow, then use the time normally spent criticizing a work you haven't even read, and keep searching. If you must, go back to a story you have read and enjoyed and write a review.

I'm going to end this post with a question. As long as an author makes their story believable and events and characters aren't introduced so abruptly without explanation as if shot out of a canon, what does it matter what changes to canon they have made? I would like some valid reasons, not "Well, I prefer..." You may not like a certain style, but others do. You don't like it when others rag on what you like, so don't rag on what other people like.

[BigBlue4u2]

cpneb said:

We have to remember that ff.net is not build for the posters of most boards, but for the readers that 'stumble' onto it and find a story or two to read; those are, whether we like it or not, include individuals under the age of 18 (in the US). Anything that we can do to assist the board's survival in the open environment is crucial; the alternative would be a pay-to-post stories or a pay-to-read, neither is acceptable to me.

FF.net already has a rating system for content. I am totally in agreement with writers displaying the level, amount, and type of content that may be inappropriate for some readers. It is legal suicide for a site to have young readers inadvertently running into graphic sex scenes.

What else needs to be done? Is there something wrong with the current system that I don't see? Sure, there are some lemon fics out there that would scar a young kid for life. But that goes for a K/R porno just the same as any other pairing, or any other circumstance.

Sex, violence, language, etc. are one thing. But I don't think anyone is going to be traumatized because a fanfic doesn't follow your idea of strict canonship.

newskool101 said:

To be honest, I don't care how everyone wants to classify, organize, categorize, and whatever else-ifize fanfics, just as long as I get to read them. What I don't agree with is this idea that non-KR pairings are somehow evil and unjust simply because they're not canon. I like Kim and Ron as a couple, but sometimes I wished they'd just stayed friends on the show just so everybody could calm the heck down with all this stuff.

That's exactly right. Maybe the 'ship thing is just the easiest to argue about. I mean, let's say that we have Kim and Ron go on a mission to... India, to save a bunch of... tigers from extinction. They run across... a Tiger Kung Fu cult, which is in an age-old war with the Monkey Kung Fu-ers. They fight, earn each others' mutual respect, and everybody has cookies at the end.

If well written, that could happen on Disney Channel. It could be entertaining. It is not in any way canon. Never happened on the show.

[mike]

newskool101 said:

misspiratess said:

Why does everything have to be so dern shippy? It's suddenly like the whole canon/non-canon debate is based on who gets with whom.

To be honest, I don't care how everyone wants to classify, organize, categorize, and whatever else-ifize fanfics, just as long as I get to read them. What I don't agree with is this idea that non-KR pairings are somehow evil and unjust simply because they're not canon. I like Kim and Ron as a couple, but sometimes I wished they'd just stayed friends on the show just so everybody could calm the heck down with all this stuff.

Very well said ;D, but I never came to say that "they're better as friends". Anyway, non-K/R is evil only to those people who doesn't like non-K/R since preference is something subjective.... and yeah, I don't like the idea that fan-fiction should be bounded by canon.

[yvj]

I don't care what happens as long as K/R fans win out and our law becomes absolute.


[/Joking.......or am I?]















*The coup d'etat is coming*

[mike]

yvj said:

*The coup d'etat is coming*

You feel it too

[Robbie Valiant, P.I.]

My personal view is that to use a fanfic to tear down something the creators spent so much time setting up (be it K/R in a KP fic, D/S in a DP fic, or, hey, even Brock/any girl he meets in a Pokemon fic) is a disrespect to the people who made it. Plain and simple. A fic's job is to EXPAND on canon, not rip it apart. Canon is as important to a fic as foundation is to a house: The stronger it is, the smaller the chance that things will begin to roll downhill.

[NewSkool101]

robbievaliant said:

My personal view is that to use a fanfic to tear down something the creators spent so much time setting up (be it K/R in a KP fic, D/S in a DP fic, or, hey, even Brock/any girl he meets in a Pokemon fic) is a disrespect to the people who made it. Plain and simple. A fic's job is to EXPAND on canon, not rip it apart. Canon is as important to a fic as foundation is to a house: The stronger it is, the smaller the chance that things will begin to roll downhill.

First off, it's not a fic's job to do anything. Nor is it the writer's. Do you get paid to write fics? Nope, in fact it says so on the silly legal disclaimers writers have to put at the beginning of their stories, therefore it is not a job. You may feel that a fic writer is obligated to stick to canon ideas and pairings, but that's your opinion and not a whole lot of people are gonna agree with it.

[BigBlue4u2]

newskool101 said:

robbievaliant said:

My personal view is that to use a fanfic to tear down something the creators spent so much time setting up (be it K/R in a KP fic, D/S in a DP fic, or, hey, even Brock/any girl he meets in a Pokemon fic) is a disrespect to the people who made it. Plain and simple. A fic's job is to EXPAND on canon, not rip it apart. Canon is as important to a fic as foundation is to a house: The stronger it is, the smaller the chance that things will begin to roll downhill.

First off, it's not a fic's job to do anything. Nor is it the writer's. Do you get paid to write fics? Nope, in fact it says so on the silly legal disclaimers writers have to put at the beginning of their stories, therefore it is not a job. You may feel that a fic writer is obligated to stick to canon ideas and pairings, but that's your opinion and not a whole lot of people are gonna agree with it.

The only way a fanfic writer can stick to canon is to not write..

*belatedly returns NS's hug*

*The coup d'etat is coming*

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you."

[Alexlayer]

yvj said:

I don't care what happens as long as K/R fans win out and our law becomes absolute.

If you think you can win like that, you never knew which game we were playing.

newskool101 said:

robbievaliant said:

My personal view is that to use a fanfic to tear down something the creators spent so much time setting up (be it K/R in a KP fic, D/S in a DP fic, or, hey, even Brock/any girl he meets in a Pokemon fic) is a disrespect to the people who made it. Plain and simple. A fic's job is to EXPAND on canon, not rip it apart. Canon is as important to a fic as foundation is to a house: The stronger it is, the smaller the chance that things will begin to roll downhill.

First off, it's not a fic's job to do anything. Nor is it the writer's. Do you get paid to write fics? Nope, in fact it says so on the silly legal disclaimers writers have to put at the beginning of their stories, therefore it is not a job. You may feel that a fic writer is obligated to stick to canon ideas and pairings, but that's your opinion and not a whole lot of people are gonna agree with it.

Exactly. Who the heck is paying me to write? No one. I do it just for the fun of it, and I got lot of it writting KiGo or KiBo fics, my favourite pairings. Since WHEN has there been a rule that Fanfiction is meant to expand Canon? You're just mixing your expectatives with what's truth, and truth is that Fanfiction can be anything.

[yvj]

alexlayer said:

yvj said:

I don't care what happens as long as K/R fans win out and our law becomes absolute.

If you think you can win like that, you never knew which game we were playing.

Apparently I forgot internet rule number one which is that people don't pick up on obious jokes. (Wouldn't it be ironic if you were joking as well...)

Contrary to popular belief good sir my fanaticism, as pure, noble and just as it may be does not run that deeply.

Besdies as far as I'm concerned we won when StD aired.

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[NewSkool101]

yvj said:

alexlayer said:

If you think you can win like that, you never knew which game we were playing.

Apparently I forgot internet rule number one which is that people don't pick up on obious jokes. (Wouldn't it be ironic if you were joking as well...)

Contrary to popular belief good sir my fanaticism, as pure, noble and just as it may be does not run that deeply.

Besdies as far as I'm concerned we won when StD aired.

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Exactly! K/R shippers should take joy in the victory they already have (the most important one at that) instead of trying to gain numerous other so-called victories that don't matter nearly as much.

[Knife Wife]

protomickey said:

Every story written by a fan is non-canon. That's why it's called fan fiction. Unless you've been secretly hired by Disney to write scripts for season five, than your stories are no closer to canon than anyone else's and no one else's stories are closer to canon than yours. Just like all men are created equal, all fan fiction is written equal. What should separate good fiction from bad fiction, and great fiction from good are things like:

• How IC or OOC the characters are.
  
• How creative, original, and well written it is.
  
• Spelling/Grammar

With that in mind, here's my rather simple suggestion to this whole conundrum about how to classify fiction. I have come up with a step by step outline that's so easy to understand, even Drakken or Mego can follow along.

• Everyone realize that as long as an author isn't making characters act OOC, then everything else is fair game to modify, and this includes relationships. Relationships do not define who the characters are, as most of them ended the series with someone different than they started with. Debatable exceptions might be the Stoppables and the Possibles and any other married couples that aren't coming to mind right now.
  
  
• Armed with the knowledge that everything is fair game and all changes are equally valid (i.e. writing KiGo is every bit as valid as Kim/Ron) a reader then browses FF.net or here looking for the style they prefer.
  
  
• If you run across a fan fiction done in a style you dislike or takes a direction you'd rather not follow, then use the time normally spent criticizing a work you haven't even read, and keep searching. If you must, go back to a story you have read and enjoyed and write a review.

I'm going to end this post with a question. As long as an author makes their story believable and events and characters aren't introduced so abruptly without explanation as if shot out of a canon, what does it matter what changes to canon they have made? I would like some valid reasons, not "Well, I prefer..." You may not like a certain style, but others do. You don't like it when others rag on what you like, so don't rag on what other people like.

Just needed to let everyone know, this post now carries the Nemesis Prime Seal of Approval^TM. He's absolutely right. The most important part of canon that every fanfic author should pay attention to are the characters and how they act. Everything else can be thrown out and you can still have a good fanfic (notice I said can, not will).

[Alexlayer]

yvj said:

alexlayer said:

If you think you can win like that, you never knew which game we were playing.

Apparently I forgot internet rule number one which is that people don't pick up on obious jokes. (Wouldn't it be ironic if you were joking as well...)

My statement wasn't that serious either, but if I were you, I'd think it twice before posting a joke in a thread with serious discussions.

yvj said:

Besdies as far as I'm concerned we won when StD aired.

Yup, you never knew the game.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now going back ON-TOPIC!!

---------------------------------------------------------

The lastest proposal made by Dracko, you know, this one:

dracko19 said:

Really, you have 2 categories and they involve relationships.

1. Traditional (T)- Respecting the canon relationships as they are
2. Radical (R)- Pairings that have never occured on the show.

There are also 2 different types of stories as well

1. Disney (D)- A story that could occur in the model that was created by the writers
2. Non-Disney (ND)- A story that could never occur in the canon model.

So, you have four categories now: T/D T/ND R/D and R/ND, examples would be:

T/D = Kim and Ron get married (Relationships are still respect from the show and it could appear on Disney)
T/ND = Shego and Drakken kill Bonnie (Relationships are still respected, would not happen on Disney)
R/D = Kim dumps Ron for Junior (New relationship created that was not on the show, but could appear on Disney)
R/ND = Kim and Shego get it on at villians camp (New relationship + not a Disney story)

...sounds quite good. But there's some problems with it. About categories, the only thing I'm wondering is where would fit something like, let's say, a KiGo fic in which the ONLY Non-Disney thing appearing would be a lesbian relationship, but everything else fits easily in a Disney show.

Now, the real problem here is that, if this is for the readers, then what would be doing by putting "R/ND" or "T/D" in the fics' summaries around FF.net? Anyone who doesn't visit around here would only get confused, and more likely interpret "R/D" as Ron/Drakken than anything else. The only place in which I could use these labels would be around here.

If anything, if you want to do something for the sake of the reader, put an introductory warning in the fic's beggining, like Beeftony did in his fic "Goddess of War":

Warning: This story is rated M for a reason. It features brutal violence, uncensored (but still not explicit enough to qualify as MA) sex, and very, very vulgar language. There may even be a few scenes of torture. If you couldn’t handle the dark tone of the games, then I suggest you stop reading here. For those of you who revel in Kratos’ bloodlust, you’ll find that I’ve pulled no punches with this story.

And this should be more than enough. And regarding the pairing, well, you can tell it in the summary or in the introductory notes, or do as Beeftony did, focus on the plot and leave the pairing as a mistery for the sake of it.

So I’m starting over, and I’m breaking tradition by not telling you what pairing I'll be going with for this story. I'll give you a hint: it’s not KiGo. It’s not K/R, either. It’s something completely different, something only one other author has done before. Trust me when I say that it will satisfy all parties involved.

Oh, and please, please don’t send me a PM telling me to label my story with a pairing warning. I find this practice to be stupid and outdated. The pairing shouldn’t matter; only the story. Normally I do label my stories, as some of the pairings I write can be rather controversial, but the pairing I’m deciding to go with is so essential to the plot that I’ve chosen not to reveal it just now. You can just be surprised. If you don’t like it, well then don’t read this story. I really don’t care if you read it or not.

At any rate, I think labeling the pairing in the introduction and giving the fic the proper rating should be enough.

Personally, for me all that matters is what Mickey said:

protomickey said:

Every story written by a fan is non-canon. That's why it's called fan fiction. Unless you've been secretly hired by Disney to write scripts for season five, than your stories are no closer to canon than anyone else's and no one else's stories are closer to canon than yours. Just like all men are created equal, all fan fiction is written equal. What should separate good fiction from bad fiction, and great fiction from good are things like:

• How IC or OOC the characters are.
  
• How creative, original, and well written it is.
  
• Spelling/Grammar

With that in mind, here's my rather simple suggestion to this whole conundrum about how to classify fiction. I have come up with a step by step outline that's so easy to understand, even Drakken or Mego can follow along.

• Everyone realize that as long as an author isn't making characters act OOC, then everything else is fair game to modify, and this includes relationships. Relationships do not define who the characters are, as most of them ended the series with someone different than they started with. Debatable exceptions might be the Stoppables and the Possibles and any other married couples that aren't coming to mind right now.
  
  
• Armed with the knowledge that everything is fair game and all changes are equally valid (i.e. writing KiGo is every bit as valid as Kim/Ron) a reader then browses FF.net or here looking for the style they prefer.
  
  
• If you run across a fan fiction done in a style you dislike or takes a direction you'd rather not follow, then use the time normally spent criticizing a work you haven't even read, and keep searching. If you must, go back to a story you have read and enjoyed and write a review.

I'm going to end this post with a question. As long as an author makes their story believable and events and characters aren't introduced so abruptly without explanation as if shot out of a canon, what does it matter what changes to canon they have made? I would like some valid reasons, not "Well, I prefer..." You may not like a certain style, but others do. You don't like it when others rag on what you like, so don't rag on what other people like.

Keeping the characters In-Character is the most important thing to me in order to write a good fanfic, and pairings are no way a fundamental fact to keep the characters in-character. In the end, the fic is not good or bad because of it's pairing, but because of how good the plot and the developing is.

I've decided from now on I'm gonna put as much of warning as I consider necessary in any fic I write. That settles it up for me.

[dracko19]

FYI: the rating system I proposed was for ff.net's KP section. So, if implemented, it would apply to all the stories and a key would be posted. Zaratan, cpneb and others are the ones that make those decisions. I'm just trying to help out.

[BigBlue4u2]

Alex, you can be my new hero here. I have decided on a "civil disobedience" approach. Let anyone come up with a new, more brilliant Yellow Star* for me. I just won't wear it.

Come up with an idea that makes sense, then I'll consider it. And I think that's it with this thread for me. Thanks, it's been fun and enlightening. Feel free, anyone, to PM me if you want.

If you don't get the reference, google "holocaust."

[JuPMod]

dracko19 said:

FYI: the rating system I proposed was for ff.net's KP section. So, if implemented, it would apply to all the stories and a key would be posted. Zaratan, cpneb and others are the ones that make those decisions. I'm just trying to help out.

I like to point out again to everyone that this is *just* an idea and should not be taken that it would be enforced upon any writer who does not want to use this system. Zar, cp, and others do not have authority to force anyone to make these changes. No one does.

Therefore, writers are free to continue as they done before when it comes to whatever they use to tell people regarding their stories.

[Scoutcraft Piratess]

I don't think it's at all disrespectful to change pairings. I think it's disrespectful to alter characters beyond recognition--if you're going to do that, why can't you just skip it all together and make an original character? Saves everyone a lot grief. Rather, I think it's a compliment to view characters as complex enough that they could possibly be matched with other people.

I can't say I hate the idea of the proposed rating system... I just hate to be tied to it. I am all for rating systems that display basic maturity content levels, but other than that... ick.

[slicknickshady]

Honestly I don't like all these new rating proposals. I don't see anything wrong with how it is now. All I ask is that it's made clear what the rating and pairing is. From that I will know if I want to read it or not. All these proposals are just making it confusing.

I think Commander Argus made a good post when he basically stated that his repuatation should be enough of a warning. The only problem with that is the new writers. For a lot of us we have been a part of the fandom for a while. We know what we will get 99% of the time when you see Commander Argus, Mr. Dr. P, Captainkodak, YvJ, and etc. Same thing goes for other people who have been in the fan fic game for a while. So I would just hope new authors make it clear for there first 5-10 storys. After that then your reputation should be enough.

[Scoutcraft Piratess]

On the pairing... I never realized that the character drops on the ff.net were meant first and first most for romantic shippings. I thought they were just there to announce the major characters of the fic.

[Alexlayer]

misspiratess said:

On the pairing... I never realized that the character drops on the ff.net were meant first and first most for romantic shippings. I thought they were just there to announce the major characters of the fic.

Well, I believe it is meant to announce which character have a major role in the fic, but if you're writting a K/R fic, which characters would fit better than Kim and Ron?