On the importance of Canon

[cpneb]

I wrote:

Regarding canon:
There are many interpretations of canon: it depends on the writer. Those definitions range from the strict to loose interpretations, and all are valid in the mind of the writer. Readers may or may not agree with the writer's interpretation as is their choice.

dracko19 said:

I've noticed a few posts recently that seem to imply that some have different definitions for the word "canon". It would be most helpful if we all agreed on the definition before continuing to discuss it.

There have been various posts about this, but I think the overall consensus is this: Canon means what we have actually SEEN and HEARD on the show. Anything outside of it (regardless of source...even from VIP chat speculation into the future) is NOT canon. Try to keep that in mind for this discussion.

drako19, your statement works in the abstract; however, the writer interprets the scene and the meaning of what occurs: that generates the interpretation of canon that I mentioned above. It's that interpretation that generates the 'lively discussions.'

For example, Kim's statement about liking boys '...sometimes...' was taken as an admission of lesbian tendencies by several writers.

Some writers have taken Wade's willingness to work with Kim and, in season 4, go on missions with her as a desire to be with Kim.

My interpretation: Wade had a crush on Kim, but he has spent too much tome with Ron and understands, better than Ron, how Ron feels about Kim. Wade likes Ron as a good friend who doesn't put him down because of his age or size and decided that the friendship was worth more than his crush on Kim. He's not blind: she's pretty, but he's striving to not think of her that way. In my 'verse, of course, all thoughts of Kim go out the window when he sees Joss, on the Kimmunicator feed, for the first time.

As I stated, your definition works well in the abstract; it runs face-first into the wall, however, when humans get involved in the mix.

IMHO, of course....that, and far too many years of experience in dealing with the species.

[Nutzkie]

Coolio! Cpneb is in da' house! A great big, warm, fuzzy welcome to one of the best writer/reviewers on the ff.net site.

Regarding canon, I've always thought of it to be more oriented toward the characters themselves, rather than overall story lines. The situations a writer presents can go way beyond anything that would ever make it into a Disney program, but as long as the characters' personalities remain true to the show, and their reactions are consistent with that, then I myself must conclude that canon is being maintained.

Case in point, in a recent story of mine, Ron actually winds up killing a man. (He didn't intentionally set out to do it, mind you. The situation just sort of developed around him and, well, sometimes s*** happens.)

Now, would Disney ever allow something as serious and weighty as death to make it into one of their notoriously "G-rated" shows? Do you really have to ask that question? Doubtful. However, the big key to pulling this off, I believe, was in Ron's reaction to the sitch. Was he ambivalent about it? Of course not. Was he enthused or excited? Get real! He was horrified by his actions, and he almost threw-up because of them. It was a majorly traumatic experience for him, and I strongly suspect that he'll carry it with him for the rest of his life.

It's a distinctively non-Disney plot, but yet canon is still being maintained.

[slicknickshady]

cmdrargus said:

If more people did the way I do, this would be a much quieter place. Slick, pay attention:

When I stumble accidentally onto Kigo or some other ship that is not my cup of tea, I say "Uh, okay" then walk away. No flames, not nasty PMs and aside from an occasional mild complaint (because I actually do NOT like Kigo) I stay quiet about it. No harm, no foul.

I think a good way to describe what folks are asking about here is "Canon-style" I'm currently writing an AU universe where certain events unfolded differently, but I'm still writing as if it's the same Kim and Ron. Is it canon? No. It's drifting further and further from the original story (it starts at the end of Emotion Sickness and diverges from there)

That is what i have been doing at Zaratans forum. It's just Mike I. specifically told me that what was going to go on in the poll vault forum would stay there and what I would say there would stay there. I have never wrote a flame review for any story. I just ignore it. I know when and where to keep my mouth shut I go to a private christian college and i'm not religious at all. I disagree with everybody 0n religion. I keep my mouth shut. When somebody ask me if i would participate in there discussion and to give my true feelings I foolishly decided to do it. It was not wise to assume that they would keep there promise and keep it in that forum. If people did not want me to be honest about my position on it I would not have responded.

[brendank]

jupmod said:

dracko19 said:

There have been various posts about this, but I think the overall consensus is this: Canon means what we have actually SEEN and HEARD on the show. Anything outside of it (regardless of source...even from VIP chat speculation into the future) is NOT canon. Try to keep that in mind for this discussion.

I like to say we're lucky we just have only one sourse for canon to make it easier for all of us. KP is not like Trek, which have so many diferent sources that it's crazy to determine what's canon or not in that fandom.

Well, you can also make comparisons Anime series like Tenchi and Slayers in Japan. Tenchi has at least four seperate canon continuities, while Slayers has two canon versions of early continuity then radicly branches along three lines for later canon.

As far as the thread goes in general, I'm surprised that I wound up sparking something like this.

[cpneb]

slicknickshady said:

cmdrargus said:

If more people did the way I do, this would be a much quieter place. Slick, pay attention:

When I stumble accidentally onto Kigo or some other ship that is not my cup of tea, I say "Uh, okay" then walk away. No flames, not nasty PMs and aside from an occasional mild complaint (because I actually do NOT like Kigo) I stay quiet about it. No harm, no foul.

I think a good way to describe what folks are asking about here is "Canon-style" I'm currently writing an AU universe where certain events unfolded differently, but I'm still writing as if it's the same Kim and Ron. Is it canon? No. It's drifting further and further from the original story (it starts at the end of Emotion Sickness and diverges from there)

That is what i have been doing at Zaratans forum. It's just Mike I. specifically told me that what was going to go on in the poll vault forum would stay there and what I would say there would stay there. I have never wrote a flame review for any story. I just ignore it. I know when and where to keep my mouth shut I go to a private christian college and i'm not religious at all. I disagree with everybody 0n religion. I keep my mouth shut. When somebody ask me if i would participate in there discussion and to give my true feelings I foolishly decided to do it. It was not wise to assume that they would keep there promise and keep it in that forum. If people did not want me to be honest about my position on it I would not have responded.

capturing forum content before it disappears.

[slicknickshady]

cpneb said:

capturing forum content before it disappears.

You are just trying to Provoke.

[cpneb]

The intriguing observation: canon changed between seasons 3 and 4; in fact before Std and after Std.
Pre-Std: bff
Std: feelings come out
season 4: bfgf and bfbf.

Depending on when the story line was started, it could be with canon or ourside of canon. If the writer/reader has a concern with that, they have options:
1. write/read pure fiction where the writer has 100% control over content.
2. writer does not write until the series is complete, and reader reads no fanfic until the series is complete.

Every writer takes a risk: I did so, writing Jade, under the
assumption that StD was 'the end.' The announcement of season 4 immediately placed me outside of canon and into AU; however, my AU is a preferred sitch for several of my cast members:
Ron and Kim, since he proposes to Kim at Christmas their Sr. Year after realizing that he needs Kim, forever. Kim's not compaining; they're not planning to get married until after college.
Slim and Betty, since he proposes to Betty at the same Christmas event unknown to either Ron or Kim. Neither Betty nor Joss are complaining: Joss wants a Momma2.

Is my version of the truth bad? No, it took place before season 4; it's just an AU trip. Now, because of the Graduation epi, my worklod just grew, rewriting and expanding the outline for Reality Happens (my closing story line for the Blue Eyes, Shining arc, but not the close of the JadeKimVerse).
I do wish that Bob and Mark had talked to me before making their decisions; my life would have been easier ;D

my thoughts...comments (not flames) are welcome. Flames should be sent via PM, please and thank you.

to SNS: I'm sorry you feel that way: I'm simply trying to capture information. Why would you perceive that as provocation?

[MrDrP]

cpneb said:

I wrote:

Regarding canon:
There are many interpretations of canon: it depends on the writer. Those definitions range from the strict to loose interpretations, and all are valid in the mind of the writer. Readers may or may not agree with the writer's interpretation as is their choice.

dracko19 said:

I've noticed a few posts recently that seem to imply that some have different definitions for the word "canon". It would be most helpful if we all agreed on the definition before continuing to discuss it.

There have been various posts about this, but I think the overall consensus is this: Canon means what we have actually SEEN and HEARD on the show. Anything outside of it (regardless of source...even from VIP chat speculation into the future) is NOT canon. Try to keep that in mind for this discussion.

drako19, your statement works in the abstract; however, the writer interprets the scene and the meaning of what occurs: that generates the interpretation of canon that I mentioned above. It's that interpretation that generates the 'lively discussions.'

For example, Kim's statement about liking boys '...sometimes...' was taken as an admission of lesbian tendencies by several writers.

Some writers have taken Wade's willingness to work with Kim and, in season 4, go on missions with her as a desire to be with Kim.

First, let's not dismiss Dracko's comment (or my prior post, either). He makes a statement about fact that needs to be brought up every once in awhile. Remember, Ron does not have a middle name, no matter how many people suggest it is Dean or Adrian. Monique and Tara are like Cher: women with just one name. The tall short haired girl some call the Background Lesbian is not named Alex Sapphic, nor do we know her sexual orientation. And the Girl in Blue remains the Girl in Blue, forever to be without a canonical name.

Beyond this issue lies the heart of the problem as I noted in my post: once canon is established, people will interpret it.

While I believe every viewer's right to interpret what he or she sees is equal to every other's, I do not believe that every interpretation is equally valid. I, for one, don't buy the "Kim has lesbian tendencies because of her 'sometimes' comment in Showdown" argument. To me, she's clearly trying not to look boy crazy to her impressionable little cousin. That's what I believe to be the correct, and based on all we'd seen in the series to that point (and have seen since), only plausible interpretation of Kim's comment. What's the upshot? If I believe one interpretation is plausible (Kim worried about her impressionable little cousin), and the other is not (Kim hinting she's bisexual), I am not going to say all interpretations are equally valid. To say otherwise would be dishonest.

As for the Wade scenario, that's conjecture, pure and simple. Mind you, it doesn't contradict canon, so it's plausible, but it's not canon. Wade running's Kim website is canon, why Wade runs it is unknown. Writers can fill in an awful lot of blank holes in the show, both in terms of actions and motivations; however, none of what is written becomes canon.

The only way the fandom is going to exist in some level of comity is for a couple of things to happen. First, everyone needs to recognize that people like the show and different elements (characters, plots) for a variety of reasons. Second, everyone needs to recognize that not everyone is going to share or accept their interpretation of things. Third, remember Kim Possible is a cartoon. A very good cartoon, but a cartoon nonetheless. There are many more important things in this world demanding our attention.

[NewSkool101]

...Okay...what just happened?

WAIT...wait, wait, don't tell me. The more posts I read, the more I think I'm better off not knowing...

[yvj]

mrdrp said:

cpneb said:

I wrote:




drako19, your statement works in the abstract; however, the writer interprets the scene and the meaning of what occurs: that generates the interpretation of canon that I mentioned above. It's that interpretation that generates the 'lively discussions.'

For example, Kim's statement about liking boys '...sometimes...' was taken as an admission of lesbian tendencies by several writers.

Some writers have taken Wade's willingness to work with Kim and, in season 4, go on missions with her as a desire to be with Kim.

First, let's not dismiss Dracko's comment (or my prior post, either). He makes a statement about fact that needs to be brought up every once in awhile. Remember, Ron does not have a middle name, no matter how many people suggest it is Dean or Adrian. Monique and Tara are like Cher: women with just one name. The tall short haired girl some call the Background Lesbian is not named Alex Sapphic, nor do we know her sexual orientation. And the Girl in Blue remains the Girl in Blue, forever to be without a canonical name.

Beyond this issue lies the heart of the problem as I noted in my post: once canon is established, people will interpret it.

While I believe every viewer's right to interpret what he or she sees is equal to every other's, I do not believe that every interpretation is equally valid. I, for one, don't buy the "Kim has lesbian tendencies because of her 'sometimes' comment in Showdown" argument. To me, she's clearly trying not to look boy crazy to her impressionable little cousin. That's what I believe to be the correct, and based on all we'd seen in the series to that point (and have seen since), only plausible interpretation of Kim's comment. What's the upshot? If I believe one interpretation is plausible (Kim worried about her impressionable little cousin), and the other is not (Kim hinting she's bisexual), I am not going to say all interpretations are equally valid. To say otherwise would be dishonest.

As for the Wade scenario, that's conjecture, pure and simple. Mind you, it doesn't contradict canon, so it's plausible, but it's not canon. Wade running's Kim website is canon, why Wade runs it is unknown. Writers can fill in an awful lot of blank holes in the show, both in terms of actions and motivations; however, none of what is written becomes canon.

The only way the fandom is going to exist in some level of comity is for a couple of things to happen. First, everyone needs to recognize that people like the show and different elements (characters, plots) for a variety of reasons. Second, everyone needs to recognize that not everyone is going to share or accept their interpretation of things. Third, remember Kim Possible is a cartoon. A very good cartoon, but a cartoon nonetheless. There are many more important things in this world demanding our attention.

I agree with most of this post except for one thing. I feel that everything that the VIP's confirmed before Schooley had to be forced to say something (so the madness on these forums could finally stop) is from an orginal source just like the show.

[cpneb]

mrdrp said:

cpneb said:

I wrote:




drako19, your statement works in the abstract; however, the writer interprets the scene and the meaning of what occurs: that generates the interpretation of canon that I mentioned above. It's that interpretation that generates the 'lively discussions.'

For example, Kim's statement about liking boys '...sometimes...' was taken as an admission of lesbian tendencies by several writers.

Some writers have taken Wade's willingness to work with Kim and, in season 4, go on missions with her as a desire to be with Kim.

First, let's not dismiss Dracko's comment (or my prior post, either). He makes a statement about fact that needs to be brought up every once in awhile. Remember, Ron does not have a middle name, no matter how many people suggest it is Dean or Adrian. Monique and Tara are like Cher: women with just one name. The tall short haired girl some call the Background Lesbian is not named Alex Sapphic, nor do we know her sexual orientation. And the Girl in Blue remains the Girl in Blue, forever to be without a canonical name.

Beyond this issue lies the heart of the problem as I noted in my post: once canon is established, people will interpret it.

While I believe every viewer's right to interpret what he or she sees is equal to every other's, I do not believe that every interpretation is equally valid. I, for one, don't buy the "Kim has lesbian tendencies because of her 'sometimes' comment in Showdown" argument. To me, she's clearly trying not to look boy crazy to her impressionable little cousin. That's what I believe to be the correct, and based on all we'd seen in the series to that point (and have seen since), only plausible interpretation of Kim's comment. What's the upshot? If I believe one interpretation is plausible (Kim worried about her impressionable little cousin), and the other is not (Kim hinting she's bisexual), I am not going to say all interpretations are equally valid. To say otherwise would be dishonest.

As for the Wade scenario, that's conjecture, pure and simple. Mind you, it doesn't contradict canon, so it's plausible, but it's not canon. Wade running's Kim website is canon, why Wade runs it is unknown. Writers can fill in an awful lot of blank holes in the show, both in terms of actions and motivations; however, none of what is written becomes canon.

The only way the fandom is going to exist in some level of comity is for a couple of things to happen. First, everyone needs to recognize that people like the show and different elements (characters, plots) for a variety of reasons. Second, everyone needs to recognize that not everyone is going to share or accept their interpretation of things. Third, remember Kim Possible is a cartoon. A very good cartoon, but a cartoon nonetheless. There are many more important things in this world demanding our attention.

Premise:
Every story written outside of the series is AU: no stories written by individuals that are not the writers of the episodee are canon because there's been no conversations with the original writers 1-on-1.

Given that premise, everything is AU. if AU, I can assign a middle name to Ron, give Monique and Tara middle and last names, the tall short-haired girl is named Alex Safic, and TGIB is named Sarah Janine Best. Is it canon? no, and I've never stated that it is; to the contrary, I've stated that it is expanded on some base canons, one concept being that Kim and Ron are friends who will ultimately become more than friends.

In fact, if you carry the canon concept to the extreme, only the written scripts (not the transcripts, unless they are copies of the actuals) are canon: the visual animation is the interpretation of the artists. That would explain why Joss Possible's eye color changes throughout 'Showdown.'

MrDrP, I understand your statement about Kim's 'perceived' tendencies. I, for one, have no problems reading it as fiction, and I do not treat it as canon. Wade's running the website is canon, and I concur with you on that. Everything else is the holes that I've filled in with my own mind, as warped as that is. I had to fill it in, because the vacancies vexed me so. It's only canon in my own 'verse, not the written-by-the-writers KPVerse, and that occurs because I'm that writer/reader who want sto know the background story as well as read the main novel.

MrDrP, there are several times that I have agreed and disagreed with you, but with this paragraph I concur 100%:

The only way the fandom is going to exist in some level of comity is for a couple of things to happen. First, everyone needs to recognize that people like the show and different elements (characters, plots) for a variety of reasons. Second, everyone needs to recognize that not everyone is going to share or accept their interpretation of things. Third, remember Kim Possible is a cartoon. A very good cartoon, but a cartoon nonetheless. There are many more important things in this world demanding our attention.

Can I have a booyah for this paragraph? and the people say: BOOYAH!

We need to play: for many of us, our writing is our form of play. I'm working with an 11-year-old and her father, 53 and a rocket scientist, and she understands that we should be having fun, not arguing over canon. From the mouth of babes....

We do need to remember one important thing from the show, however, and I believe that it is canon:
Kom cares about people, even Bonnie.
Ron cares about people, even Josh Mankey and MonkeyFist. Wade cares about people, even Team Impossible.
Let's take that lesson from the series and treat others the same way that we want to be treated. If we do that, I believe that the canon and 'ship wars' will cease.

Of course, this is my own opinion....

[MrDrP]

cpneb said:

The intriguing observation: canon changed between seasons 3 and 4; in fact before Std and after Std.
Pre-Std: bff
Std: feelings come out
season 4: bfgf and bfbf.

Depending on when the story line was started, it could be with canon or ourside of canon. If the writer/reader has a concern with that, they have options:
1. write/read pure fiction where the writer has 100% control over content.
2. writer does not write until the series is complete, and reader reads no fanfic until the series is complete.

The happy development of S4 did indeed throw a spanner into the works of many authors. “Epic Sitch” was intended to be my continuation of the series; as it began with the end of StD, it was rendered AU the moment “Ill Suited” aired.

I thought I’d be clever and begin my post-S4 series before the series ended. It became clear that “What’s the Alma Mater?” wasn’t going to jibe with the evolving canon, so I scrapped it – and that was before “Graduation” with its view of the KPverse’s college admissions and acceptance process, one that employed a timeline different from the one seen in our world. Now I've begun "So Not the End of the World," my post-S4 continuity, safe that no more surprises will be sprung on an unsuspecting storyline!

Canon is a totality and with the end of the series, the KP canon has closed. All authors can do now is respond to, or ignore, that canon.

yvj said:

mrdrp said:

I feel that everything that the VIP's confirmed before Schooley had to be forced to say something (so the madness on these forums could finally stop) is from an orginal source just like the show.

I personally will be treating the VIPs comments as if they were canon, since authorial intent (not to mention visuals from storyboards), carries a lot of weight for me. However, I can’t treat those comments as canon. I still feel that canon should be restricted to what was broadcast on TV (besides, its obvious even without the creators’ comments that Kim and Ron will be staying together. “Graduation” was the culmination of the plethora of clues, hints, and foreshadows that were being offered up during S4.

[MrDrP]

cpneb said:

mrdrp said:

Premise:
Every story written outside of the series is AU: no stories written by individuals that are not the writers of the episodee are canon because there's been no conversations with the original writers 1-on-1.

Given that premise, everything is AU. if AU, I can assign a middle name to Ron, give Monique and Tara middle and last names, the tall short-haired girl is named Alex Safic, and TGIB is named Sarah Janine Best. Is it canon? no, and I've never stated that it is; to the contrary, I've stated that it is expanded on some base canons, one concept being that Kim and Ron are friends who will ultimately become more than friends.

In fact, if you carry the canon concept to the extreme, only the written scripts (not the transcripts, unless they are copies of the actuals) are canon: the visual animation is the interpretation of the artists. That would explain why Joss Possible's eye color changes throughout 'Showdown.'

While all fan-fiction is non-canonical, I don't agree that all fan-fiction is AU. I believe that AU is a specific term that should be reserved for a particular type of story: one that is clearly not in the Middleton we see in the show. Thus, "Epic Sitch" was not AU (until S4 aired); it was a non-canonical extension of the series. "Nacho Boy and the Dragon Lady" was clearly AU as Kim and Ron didn't meet until they were 30. "KP:TNG," which placed Kim and Ron on the Enterprise in the 24th century universe of Star Trek was a specific kind of AU known as a "crossover" (some might call it a fusion).

I have no issue with people creating middle names or identities for unnamed characters. What does bother me is when people begin using those names and identities as if they were canonical. They're not, they're, well, fanonical.

Finally, I disagree with you on what the purest form of canon is. Kim Possible is an animated TV show, not a book. The final, canonical product is what was broadcast. Don't forget, the final word goes not to the authors, not to the story editors, not to the animators, but to Mark, Bob, and Steve, the ones who authorized the final product.

BTW, Joss' changing eye color is a perfect example of the contradictions that can exist in canon, a frustrating reality that biblical scholars have been dealing with for a very long time. My explanation (fully conjectural): Joss' eye color changes in the light (this happens to my wife). Alternatively, she's an android with faulty software. Which may explain why Slim left her home in "Graduation" ...

[cpneb]

mrdrp said:

cpneb said:

The intriguing observation: canon changed between seasons 3 and 4; in fact before Std and after Std.
Pre-Std: bff
Std: feelings come out
season 4: bfgf and bfbf.

Depending on when the story line was started, it could be with canon or outside of canon. If the writer/reader has a concern with that, they have options:
1. write/read pure fiction where the writer has 100% control over content.
2. writer does not write until the series is complete, and reader reads no fanfic until the series is complete.

The happy development of S4 did indeed throw a spanner into the works of many authors. “Epic Sitch” was intended to be my continuation of the series; as it began with the end of StD, it was rendered AU the moment “Ill Suited” aired.

I thought I’d be clever and begin my post-S4 series before the series ended. It became clear that “What’s the Alma Mater?” wasn’t going to jibe with the evolving canon, so I scrapped it – and that was before “Graduation” with its view of the KPverse’s college admissions and acceptance process, one that employed a timeline different from the one seen in our world. Now I've begun "So Not the End of the World," my post-S4 continuity, safe that no more surprises will be sprung on an unsuspecting storyline!

Canon is a totality and with the end of the series, the KP canon has closed. All authors can do now is respond to, or ignore, that canon.

if, in respond to canon, that includes growing off of it (Kim and Ron in their 30s, with kids, for example) then, in the words of
BIG O: We have reached agreement.

MrDrP: are you aware of a location of the original script content that's available to the public on the 'Net? The varied transcripts contradict themselves and each other in different places.

Appreciate the info, Please and Thank You.

[cpneb]

mrdrp said:

cpneb said:

mrdrp said:

.
.
.
In fact, if you carry the canon concept to the extreme, only the written scripts (not the transcripts, unless they are copies of the actuals) are canon: the visual animation is the interpretation of the artists. That would explain why Joss Possible's eye color changes throughout 'Showdown.'

.
.
.
I have no issue with people creating middle names or identities for unnamed characters. What does bother me is when people begin using those names and identities as if they were canonical. They're not, they're, well, fanonical.

Finally, I disagree with you on what the purest form of canon is. Kim Possible is an animated TV show, not a book. The final, canonical product is what was broadcast. Don't forget, the final word goes not to the authors, not to the story editors, not to the animators, but to Mark, Bob, and Steve, the ones who authorized the final product.

BTW, Joss' changing eye color is a perfect example of the contradictions that can exist in canon, a frustrating reality that biblical scholars have been dealing with for a very long time. My explanation (fully conjectural): Joss' eye color changes in the light (this happens to my wife). Alternatively, she's an android with faulty software. Which may explain why Slim left her home in "Graduation" ...

Define, Hell, would be AU: it's based on the Middleton we see in the show, but the Drakken we see in the story is an entirely different character, having finally snapped after his final failure and creates the Diablos to take over the world and kill all those who have caused his failures in the past. as typical, he isn't competely successful, but he leaves significant damages around the world.

Fanonical: I like that definition. Several writers have come to me asking for advice on Wade and/or Joss: I provide them with my fanonical opinions, but never used that word (or stated that I was providing canon); they understood, but they used me as a SME (subject matter expert).

If we use the show as canon, then canon contradicts itself on different occasions, as you noted, and that's all right: it's the world...gee, real world, just like the Bible....

Joss, an android...Have you been looking over my shoulder, MrDrP? I'm working on a TZ epi now that has that as one of the 'dimensional' occurences, only not an android, exactly....

[Commander Argus]

All this is why I coined the phrase "Canon-style" Stories that occur 'after canon' would not be AU, but 'expanded U.' Just like with Epic Sitch, my own It Finally Happened universe became AU when S4 started, but it treated everything through So the Drama as canon (there's one glitch, but I'll leave it to folks to find it)

[Ran Hakubi]

Also from Big O: "Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty"

Just thought I'd throw that out there. I mean, c'mon, I wouldn't be Ran Hakubi if I didn't throw out a random pointless post every now and then, right?

As to the topic, I think you guys are doing just fight debating it, I'll just pop in every now and then for some humor.

[MrDrP]

cpneb said:

mrdrp said:

The happy development of S4 did indeed throw a spanner into the works of many authors. “Epic Sitch” was intended to be my continuation of the series; as it began with the end of StD, it was rendered AU the moment “Ill Suited” aired.

I thought I’d be clever and begin my post-S4 series before the series ended. It became clear that “What’s the Alma Mater?” wasn’t going to jibe with the evolving canon, so I scrapped it – and that was before “Graduation” with its view of the KPverse’s college admissions and acceptance process, one that employed a timeline different from the one seen in our world. Now I've begun "So Not the End of the World," my post-S4 continuity, safe that no more surprises will be sprung on an unsuspecting storyline!

Canon is a totality and with the end of the series, the KP canon has closed. All authors can do now is respond to, or ignore, that canon.

if, in respond to canon, that includes growing off of it (Kim and Ron in their 30s, with kids, for example) then, in the words of
BIG O: We have reached agreement.

MrDrP: are you aware of a location of the original script content that's available to the public on the 'Net? The varied transcripts contradict themselves and each other in different places.

Appreciate the info, Please and Thank You.

Yes, Kim and Ron their 30s with kids is a response to canon. Kim breaking up with Ron, discovering she's a lesbian, and entering into a relationship with Shego I'd classify as ignoring canon since I see nothing in watching 87 episodes to indicate any of that happening. Then there's the special status I would afford to MBS' comments about post-S4 life for Kim and Ron; those may not be canonical, but they do reflect authorial intent. I happen to like CA's term of Extended Universe for stories that build on canon.

As for the original script content on the web, no official source exists. I recall Brian Swenlin saying he hoped to posting his scripts on his site. I'm lucky enough to have official scripts for "Emotion Sickness" and "Ill Suited," so if you have questions about those episodes, feel free to send me a PM.

[cpneb]

mrdrp said:

cpneb said:

if, in respond to canon, that includes growing off of it (Kim and Ron in their 30s, with kids, for example) then, in the words of
BIG O: We have reached agreement.

Yes, Kim and Ron their 30s with kids is a response to canon. Kim breaking up with Ron, discovering she's a lesbian, and entering into a relationship with Shego I'd classify as ignoring canon since I see nothing in watching 87 episodes to indicate any of that happening. Then there's the special status I would afford to MBS' comments about post-S4 life for Kim and Ron; those may not be canonical, but they do reflect authorial intent. I happen to like CA's term of Extended Universe for stories that build on canon.

Once again, I believe that we have reached an agreement: this may or may not scare you.

I used the phrase Expanded Universe on GJA (ExP, not EP: EP brings back some flashbacks like Steve Barkin would get about jellyfish).

So, I see the following categories:
Canon - up to and including season 4
Expanded Canon - expanding off existing episodes and beyond season 4
AU (non-canonical - would include any stories that branch off of the canonical episodes as well as KiGo, RonBon, RuGo, etc.

Am I missing anything, or is it that simple?

[Ran Hakubi]

cpneb said:

mrdrp said:

AU (non-canonical - would include any stories that branch off of the canonical episodes as well as KiGo, RonBon, RuGo, etc.

Am I missing anything, or is it that simple?

Awww, you just love us RuGo writers, don't ya 'neb?