On the importance of Canon

[slicknickshady]

What about this!

Ron's Big Day

---

Brian Swenlin actually made a comment about what you guys are discussing in the "Oh No! Yono" thread. He wrote the episode.

ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=episode&action=display&thread=1183322173&page=25

swenlin said:

slicknickshady said:

I have a question Swenlin. Please if you could clear it up that Ron was not wearing Diapers in his sophmore year i would appreciate? I just figured Ron watched the show when he was a baby and it has just recently but put out on DVD.

The joke is clearly implying that he was, but I wouldn't take it seriously... we all know that wasn't the case.

That's sort of what I thought from the beginning. Ron was clearly trying to be funny when talking on the phone to Kim.

[MrDrP]

alexlayer said:

cpneb said:

After much discussion (lively and otherwise) with multiple individuals across and on multiple forum boards, I have consolidated the suggestions and have proposed the following KP story categories/labels as options for clarification by writers to readers:

o Canon

[/i] - up to and including season 4
o Expanded Canon[/i] - expanding off existing episodes and beyond season 4; this would also include prequels (prior to season 1 of the actual show).
o AU(non-canonical)[/i] - would include any stories that branch off of the canonical episodes as well as KiGo, RonBon, RuGo, KiBo, KiMon, MoRon, etc.

Using cpneb's works as examples:
o JadeKimVerse would be Expanded Canon
o DefineHell Verse would be AU.

There is a poll in operation on ff.net asking for feedback on these categories as unofficial KP Fan Law: yes or no. This is the link to the poll: www.fanfiction.net/topic/36496/2982914/1/#2984773 (it's under the Poll Vault forum).

Your vote is appreciated. This is an attempt to work with all writers/readers to ease the issues/ship arguments that appear periodically throughout multiple forums.

...cpneb[/quote]

I seriously got to dissagree with this, because, honestly speaking, it makes no sense at all.

First things first, how can a fanfic be possibly labeled as "Canon"? EVERY fanfiction, regardless of the pairing, is non-canon. Even if it is cronologically sited between the events of canon, it is still not canon.

No fan fic can be canon. It can be an extension of canon, but it is not canon.

And the other two would not make sence. The term "AU" (Altern Universe) is used when the fanfic is based on a totally different world, not when just some events are change and/or mixed. Beeftony's fic, "The Gift", practically makes a remake of Kim and Ron starting college, but they are sited in the very same universe we know from the show, so I don't think you could call this an "Altern Universe".

Many people would say that a story that proposes a physical relationship between an 18 year old and a middle aged man, neither of whom has ever shown gay tendencies, is not taking place in the KP universe. That it tosses Kim and Ron as a couple out the window would only further cement that proposition.

Besides, what about the fanfics that were written post-Season 3 under the concept of "Expanded Canon" and before Season 4 finally came up? Those would have their labels changed with us having no control over it if we'd follow that law.

That's quite true. My entire Epic Sitch universe went from Extended Canon to AU when S4 began to air. I really don't have a problem with that, however.

And why must the shipping fics be cataloged as "Altern Universe"? Is it that you find it so impossible to actually happen?

If you are referring to Kigo or BT's MF/Ron story, yes, some of us actually find it impossible to believe could happen given the parameters of the KP universe and what we saw over the course of 87 episodes.

And what about a KiGo fic that's placed post-Season 4? Wouldn't that be a "Expanded Canon" fic instead of an AU?

To those who see no evidence of lesbian tendencies on the part of Kim or Shego and who believe the series clearly points to Kim and Ron staying together, a post-S4 Kigo wouldn't be Extended Canon, but a rejection of canon. Thus, it would have to be AU.

And what about the Shipping fics that are based on Canon events? Like, for example, suggesting that Shego might have fallen in love with Kim during the events of "Stop Team Go".

I don't see anything in STG to indicate the Attitudinated Shego "fell in love" with Kim. She made a friend. Girls can be friends with other girls, after all. This is actualy a good example of how different viewers interpret canon.

[BigBlue4u2]

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

And what about the Shipping fics that are based on Canon events? Like, for example, suggesting that Shego might have fallen in love with Kim during the events of "Stop Team Go".

I don't see anything in STG to indicate the Attitudinated Shego "fell in love" with Kim. She made a friend. Girls can be friends with other girls, after all. This is actualy a good example of how different viewers interpret canon.

So, just so that I'm clear, whose interpretation of canon is to be used for determining the category? Yours?

[mike]

no-one... Canon is a fact and no matter how many interpretations we have, it won't change the fact itself.

[BigBlue4u2]

mike said:

no-one... Canon is a fact and no matter how many interpretations we have, it won't change the fact itself.

So MrDrP's interpretation of Kim and Shego's relationship doesn't matter because the fact is... what? What exactly is the fact of the matter?

The question I was getting at has to do with the proposed tag system for fanfics. Who gets to judge whether an event "could possibly happen" in the same universe?

This system seems totally worthless to me. Readers can decide for themselves whether or not to "buy into" a story based on the work itself.

In any case, based on your own logic no fanfic could possibly happen in the KP universe, simply because it DIDN'T happen. And since you can't change canon, that means no adding to it, period. Picking and choosing what you think "could possibly happen" based on what you WANT to see happen only limits your imagination.

Which, if you are perfectly happy with the original show, then that's okay. But it's a pretty strange basis for fanfic...

[NewSkool101]

Here's how I look at it. The things we SEE and HEAR ON THE SHOW are canon. The things we INTERPRET from what we see and hear is NOT. We don't know what characters are thinking (unless they have that thought-narration-voiceover-thing, which I don't think has ever been done on KP), we don't know what they're doing off screen unless they SAY what they were doing off screen. We don't know what's happened in the past or in the future of the KP universe unless we've seen or heard about it.

That said, fanfiction is its own separate entity. Many of my favorite stories feature things that would've never, ever, ever, happened on the show, while others had me feeling like I was 'reading' an actual episode. Extended canon, expanded canon, AU, if I find it interesting and well-written, it doesn't matter to me what a writer chooses to call it.

[BigBlue4u2]

newskool101 said:

That said, fanfiction is its own separate entity. Many of my favorite stories feature things that would've never, ever, ever, happened on the show, while others had me feeling like I was 'reading' an actual episode. Extended canon, expanded canon, AU, if I find it interesting and well-written, it doesn't matter to me what a writer chooses to call it.

You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head. ;D Convenient labels just make it easier to discriminate against something.

[Luke Danger]

bigblue4u2 said:

newskool101 said:

That said, fanfiction is its own separate entity. Many of my favorite stories feature things that would've never, ever, ever, happened on the show, while others had me feeling like I was 'reading' an actual episode. Extended canon, expanded canon, AU, if I find it interesting and well-written, it doesn't matter to me what a writer chooses to call it.

You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head. ;D Convenient labels just make it easier to discriminate against something.

You hit the bullseye there, that can not be denied...

[Luke Danger]

cpneb said:

I wrote:

Regarding canon:
There are many interpretations of canon: it depends on the writer. Those definitions range from the strict to loose interpretations, and all are valid in the mind of the writer. Readers may or may not agree with the writer's interpretation as is their choice.

dracko19 said:

I've noticed a few posts recently that seem to imply that some have different definitions for the word "canon". It would be most helpful if we all agreed on the definition before continuing to discuss it.

There have been various posts about this, but I think the overall consensus is this: Canon means what we have actually SEEN and HEARD on the show. Anything outside of it (regardless of source...even from VIP chat speculation into the future) is NOT canon. Try to keep that in mind for this discussion.

drako19, your statement works in the abstract; however, the writer interprets the scene and the meaning of what occurs: that generates the interpretation of canon that I mentioned above. It's that interpretation that generates the 'lively discussions.'

That's true also, I for example, took Sensei's line 'Your powers will blossom in adversity' as a hint that the Lorwardians have somthing against magic, hence why I plan on going a bit farther on them, taking the 13 or whatever moons of jingos as some magic center.

Another being the 'thorgoggle' or whatever hunt, I interpided that it had some strength against Lorwardians, so I'm going to invole it's siliva as a effective weapon against Lorwardian troops.

A third thing I interpided, how Warhok and Warmonga responded towards Ron going blue, I took it in the direction that they thought he was some magic caster or somthing and thought 'Well, we got a half @$$ challange, a young magic user, this will be easy'.

In other words, we could interpit ANYTHING as ANYTHING, so, in the end, anything mostly vauge (Lorwardian culture, we could interpet it as a warrior race that hates magic for some willy so and so reason, and are as blind to using it as a sheep to astronavigation, and have a weakness. But in main focus, what Ron's powers can do, namely, I take it as a cross between the Force from Star Wars, and spells from D&D) and take it in ANY DIRECTION.

So, if the story doesn't go in a direction you'd like KP to go, either read it because it's a good read, or write your own fanfics.

[Alexlayer]

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

First things first, how can a fanfic be possibly labeled as "Canon"? EVERY fanfiction, regardless of the pairing, is non-canon. Even if it is cronologically sited between the events of canon, it is still not canon.

No fan fic can be canon. It can be an extension of canon, but it is not canon.

Well, at least we agree here.

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

And the other two would not make sence. The term "AU" (Altern Universe) is used when the fanfic is based on a totally different world, not when just some events are change and/or mixed. Beeftony's fic, "The Gift", practically makes a remake of Kim and Ron starting college, but they are sited in the very same universe we know from the show, so I don't think you could call this an "Altern Universe".

Many people would say that a story that proposes a physical relationship between an 18 year old and a middle aged man, neither of whom has ever shown gay tendencies, is not taking place in the KP universe. That it tosses Kim and Ron as a couple out the window would only further cement that proposition.

Excuse me, but... ever heard about "Character Development"? In Beefy's fic, Ron is clearly not even considering a relationship with another man, let alone Monkey Fist, during the beggining of the history, but that doesn't mean he can't develop it eventually, given the right circunstances. I myself have read a KiGo Fanfic in which both Kim and Shego are 100% straight at the beggining, but things develop between them, slowly (it takes years) and amazingly credible.

And speaking about gay tendencies, I wouldn't speak too high about that. While there's not enough evidence to proclaim that Ron is gay, there's enough to say that he is potentially bisexual without him having realized it.

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

Besides, what about the fanfics that were written post-Season 3 under the concept of "Expanded Canon" and before Season 4 finally came up? Those would have their labels changed with us having no control over it if we'd follow that law.

That's quite true. My entire Epic Sitch universe went from Extended Canon to AU when S4 began to air. I really don't have a problem with that, however.

Well, I'm sorry to dissagre, but I don't like the idea of making something that could happen in canon because it doesn't contradict what's seen in the show being turned into an "Altern Impossible Universe" just because of something like that. As BigBlue4u2, these labels would only help to discriminate.

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

And why must the shipping fics be cataloged as "Altern Universe"? Is it that you find it so impossible to actually happen?

If you are referring to Kigo or BT's MF/Ron story, yes, some of us actually find it impossible to believe could happen given the parameters of the KP universe and what we saw over the course of 87 episodes.

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

And what about a KiGo fic that's placed post-Season 4? Wouldn't that be a "Expanded Canon" fic instead of an AU?

To those who see no evidence of lesbian tendencies on the part of Kim or Shego and who believe the series clearly points to Kim and Ron staying together, a post-S4 Kigo wouldn't be Extended Canon, but a rejection of canon. Thus, it would have to be AU.

I don't want to be rude, but that really sounds closed-minded. There's more than one way to interpretate things, and believe me, we KiGo finds don't proclaim "subtext" because of nothing. Kim's phrase "I'm into cheerleading, and boys... sometimes..." can be easily interpretated to mean something special, and just because it wasn't shown in the show, it doesn't mean it doesn't have to be there. As Beeftony usually says, "Lack of evidence doesn’t mean evidence for a lacking"

mrdrp said:

alexlayer said:

And what about the Shipping fics that are based on Canon events? Like, for example, suggesting that Shego might have fallen in love with Kim during the events of "Stop Team Go".

I don't see anything in STG to indicate the Attitudinated Shego "fell in love" with Kim. She made a friend. Girls can be friends with other girls, after all. This is actualy a good example of how different viewers interpret canon.

Again, it all depends on how you see things. While even I don't think that Canon Shego might have really fallen for Kim during that episode, I don't think you could say it's totally impossible. As you said, different viewers interpret canon differently, but that's mostly because it CAN be interpretated differently. I don't have any problem with the way anyone interprents things, as long as they acknowlodge that others can and might interpret them in other way, and respect it.

[maetch]

newskool101 said:

Here's how I look at it. The things we SEE and HEAR ON THE SHOW are canon. The things we INTERPRET from what we see and hear is NOT. We don't know what characters are thinking (unless they have that thought-narration-voiceover-thing, which I don't think has ever been done on KP), we don't know what they're doing off screen unless they SAY what they were doing off screen. We don't know what's happened in the past or in the future of the KP universe unless we've seen or heard about it.

That said, fanfiction is its own separate entity. Many of my favorite stories feature things that would've never, ever, ever, happened on the show, while others had me feeling like I was 'reading' an actual episode. Extended canon, expanded canon, AU, if I find it interesting and well-written, it doesn't matter to me what a writer chooses to call it.

This is how I view the series (or any series). What goes on off-camera is anyone's personal guess.

[cpneb]

I've sat back and read the comments presented over the last day regarding my proposal. Barring my initial response which would have gotten banned from several forums, I'd like to point out two basic points:

Point 1: All of you have told me what's wrong with my proposal, yet none of you have offerred an alternative.

Point 2: All of you have pointed out what you perceive to be wrong with the other ship but yet have not, to the best of my recollection, said anything about the quality of the writing in any of the other ships.

Given that, I'm leaving the poll open.
I would strongly consider changing the word 'canon' to 'fanon' as it points to what is attibuted to the actual events occurring on the show and leaving only a small amount of room for interpretation. If that's the only thing holding concurrance, I will gladly make that change.

I, personally, am ambivolent to the concepts; however, I am aware that there are individuals that would just as soon die as read a story from another 'ship.' It is that 'fan'aticism that stirred this pot, once again, on another forum. and resulted in the discussion bleeding over here.

Give me an alternative that meets the needs of the readers, not the egos of the writers, and I'll look at it; hecky-durn, I'm likely to pull my proposal and replace it with yours if it meets the needs of the readers and fans.

To those who don't like the idea of 'categorization:' please tell me what planet you're from, because I want to go there. I'm black, over 40, a native Texan, married to an Anglo woman (adopted her two kids, and now they're OUR kids) and have MS: trust me, I don't like categorization, either, but the world ain't wired that way. Not my choice, but reality. I'm trying to make the best of a bad sitch by offering a possible solution.

Don't tell me what could happen or what you think might have happened "if the moon was full;" I'm writing those stories, myself: California King-Sized Bed, Define, Hell, the JadeKimVerse.
Conversely, be open to the 'possibilities' of a good story based on alternate pairings besides Kim and Ron.

Before anyone on the K/R ship pulls the pistol, I have Ron proposing to Kim in high school and in college in two of my universes.

Give me alternatives, people, rather than just tearing everything down. Otherwise....

MORE HOMEWORK for YOU ALL!

...cpneb

[Alexlayer]

Well, how about you explaining us WHY should we propose an alternative for categorization if we don't even WANT categorization? Truth, life is full of that, but that doesn't mean we have to apply that as a rule in everything we do. I don't care whenever people are white, black or purple, and even LESS I'm gonna care about that around the internet.

Besides, have the Readers somehow "demanded" categories? If anything, I think they'll be fine with the Search Engine to look for stories with the names of their characters in the summary, or by using the "Character Category" that FF.net already offers. Other than that, there's already the labels as K/R, KiGo, D/S and others, and I don't think any reader might need anything more.

So tell me, WHY do we needs labels and categories? This whole "KP Fan Law" seems like a very bad idea to me. Do you really think all the fans could possibly agree with something like that?

[MrDrP]

Excuse me, but... ever heard about "Character Development"? In Beefy's fic, Ron is clearly not even considering a relationship with another man, let alone Monkey Fist, during the beggining of the history, but that doesn't mean he can't develop it eventually, given the right circunstances. I myself have read a KiGo Fanfic in which both Kim and Shego are 100% straight at the beggining, but things develop between them, slowly (it takes years) and amazingly credible.

Yes, I've heard of character development. But what BT is doing, and what I see happening in Kigo is character recreation. What BT did may be credible to you; it is not to me. By creating a story where an 18 year old winds up in a relationship with a middle-aged man, BT has taken a show designed for tweens to a very dark, scary place it was not meant to visit.

Given enough time and words you can twist and recast characters any way you want. Want to turn Kim into a gun-toting vigilante? Why not? She already is prone to use violence to solve problems. Want to turn Kim into a homophobe? Easy enough. She’s uncomfortable around people with disabilities, so why not people of different sexual orientations?

And speaking about gay tendencies, I wouldn't speak too high about that. While there's not enough evidence to proclaim that Ron is gay, there's enough to say that he is potentially bisexual without him having realized it.

Ron's been interested in girls since the first episode. He's never shown an interest in guys.

I don't want to be rude, but that really sounds closed-minded. There's more than one way to interpretate things, and believe me, we KiGo finds don't proclaim "subtext" because of nothing. Kim's phrase "I'm into cheerleading, and boys... sometimes..." can be easily interpretated to mean something special, and just because it wasn't shown in the show, it doesn't mean it doesn't have to be there. As Beeftony usually says, "Lack of evidence doesn’t mean evidence for a lacking"

Actually, I’ve read all the arguments about supposed subtext in the show. It doesn’t exist. Subtext is intentional. Based on every interview I've read and my conversations with Mark, Bob, Steve at the RS net lunch in March, I have no reason to believe that they programmed a hidden meaning into the show.

You have the right to interpret things as you wish and I respect that. But I don’t have to treat your interpretation as valid if I think it is wrong. The only reason Kim’s comment form "Showdown" is interpreted as implying she’s also into girls is because Kigo fans want to see something. The obvious explanation is that Kim doesn’t want her impressionable little cousin to think she’s boy-crazy. As for BT’s observation, you can thank him for helping me reach the insight that it's possible that Kim could be homophobic.

Again, it all depends on how you see things. While even I don't think that Canon Shego might have really fallen for Kim during that episode, I don't think you could say it's totally impossible. As you said, different viewers interpret canon differently, but that's mostly because it CAN be interpretated differently. I don't have any problem with the way anyone interprents things, as long as they acknowlodge that others can and might interpret them in other way, and respect it.

Sorry, but I don’t see Shego in StG loving Kim. There’s no basis for that claim other than a desire for it to be so. Sexual orientation questions aside, do you really expect me to believe that Shego fell in love with Kim because they saw a movie, went to a museum, and both like roller skating?

I’ve acknowledged that others can interpret things as they wish and that I respect that right. But if I think that interpretation is wrong, I'm not going to treat it otherwise.

[Alexlayer]

It's allright. I don't ask you to treat my, or others', interpretations as right, but as matter of respectfulness, I'd expect you wouldn't consider them as something unthinkable in the KP universe, or think that we're portraying the characters totally OOC.

[dracko19]

Shipper: "fan of a relationship between two characters"
Canon: "what we SEE and HEAR on the actual show"

I think there are many definitions for "relationship" and I believe a "friendship" would certain qualify.

Therefore...since Kim and Shego became friends in STG and they certainly got along well in Graduation, we can now say KIGO is canon, can we not?

Some KiGo fans are looking for a lot more than just friends. Others are happy with a friendship. My point is if you are going to focus so much on "interpetation" as fanon and claim that only visual and audio facts are canon, then you can't just blow off Kigo as non-canon. It happened in the show.

And that brings us back to the topic of this thread. The importance of canon. How important is it for Kigo to be canon?

Also, whether you like it or not, stories are going to be categorized. Its a way of life. It would be wise for everyone to agree rather than a few arbitrarily make that decision for you. If you don't like what has been proposed, don't slam it unless you have an alternate proposal. No one cares about your opinion unless you intend to help solve the problem.

[cpneb]

alexlayer said:

It's allright. I don't ask you to treat my, or others', interpretations as right, but as matter of respectfulness, I'd expect you wouldn't consider them as something unthinkable in the KP universe, or think that we're portraying the characters totally OOC.

You, sir, IMHO, are correct: we should not look down on others because they do not believe as we do or think as we do or look as we do. Kim proves that it's difficult to do (ask Felix from their first meeting), but it's not im-'Possible.'

My attempts are to provide some guidance to the new readers who do not understand what's happening out there, in here. I started as a new reader and began to immediately avoid certain writers because what they wrote didn't fit the show; then, I stumbled upon Rocinante's 'Celler' series and got hooked on a different 'verse than the show. Next, I ran into (non-K/R) KiY and the Lunatic, and I began to enjoy the story if I could suspend my disbelief.

KiY challenged me to write KiGo story, and I managed to write one that wasn't totally disgusting to the quality KiGo writers (at least, they didn't flame it).

I do understand that there are readers and writers out there, in here, under the age of 18. I just proofed an pretty good story by an 11-year-old; expect to see it on FF.net soon. I know that her Dad allows her to read Kigo. If you remember last year's Fannies, KiY had a running joke about KiY actually being a 13-year-old that could not read the stories that she wrote.

Like it or not, the real world is that not everyone is as open as you state that you are; all I'm trying to offer as a suggestion (I jokingly called it Fan Law after the beer commercial ManLaw) that could possibly curb the shipping wars as well as provide guidelines for our new readers oncoming.

Does it have to be done? No, it doesn't, but just as this board will not allow MA stories (or the links) and the admins attempt to 'police' and have the participants 'self-police' rather than being shut down, I'm offering suggestions that, hopefully, will prevent all of KP fanfiction from being shot down because someone reads something that they don't like and it escalates high and fast (don't think it can happen? I'm not that comfortable in the world; people told me that planes couldn't become missiles, either, even though they'd lived thru WW II).

My opinions, only, at this time...I'm not trying to make a mess in the sandbox: I'm trying to prevent it from being dumped in the future.

btw: read one of your stories and left you a review; I'll likely stealth back and read others, based on what I read.

[MrDrP]

alexlayer said:

It's allright. I don't ask you to treat my, or others', interpretations as right, but as matter of respectfulness, I'd expect you wouldn't consider them as something unthinkable in the KP universe, or think that we're portraying the characters totally OOC.

Alex, you’re essentially asking me to believe what I don’t believe. I don’t see a Kim/Shego lesbian relationship as possible in the KP universe, not the one I’ve seen in watching 87 episodes. And I do see Kim dumping Ron, coming out of the closet, and hooking up with Shego romantically as totally OOC. I’m sorry if you feel that’s disrespectful, but that’s how I see things based on my understanding of the show, its characters and universe.

dracko19 said:

Shipper: "fan of a relationship between two characters"
Canon: "what we SEE and HEAR on the actual show"

I think there are many definitions for "relationship" and I believe a "friendship" would certain qualify.

Therefore...since Kim and Shego became friends in STG and they certainly got along well in Graduation, we can now say KIGO is canon, can we not?

Some KiGo fans are looking for a lot more than just friends. Others are happy with a friendship. My point is if you are going to focus so much on "interpetation" as fanon and claim that only visual and audio facts are canon, then you can't just blow off Kigo as non-canon. It happened in the show.

And that brings us back to the topic of this thread. The importance of canon. How important is it for Kigo to be canon?

Also, whether you like it or not, stories are going to be categorized. Its a way of life. It would be wise for everyone to agree rather than a few arbitrarily make that decision for you. If you don't like what has been proposed, don't slam it unless you have an alternate proposal. No one cares about your opinion unless you intend to help solve the problem.

I certainly agree that post S4 Shego and Kim could become friends, not so much because of StG (Shego really wasn't herself then) but because of their shared experience fighting Warhok and Warmonga. However, it's not clear that a Kim-Shego friendship qualifies as Kigo, at least based on the responses I received to my question at KP Slashhaven on the very topic. The consensus seemed to be that Kigo involved a romantic relationship, not just a friendship.

[NewSkool101]

(I jokingly called it Fan Law after the beer commercial ManLaw)

Yeah, I believe I may have been the only one who caught that.

[Scoutcraft Piratess]

mrdrp said:

However, it's not clear that a Kim-Shego friendship qualifies as Kigo, at least based on the responses I received to my question at KP Slashhaven on the very topic. The consensus seemed to be that Kigo involved a romantic relationship, not just a friendship.

Why is it that friendship fics are so few and far between? I have nothing against Kigo that isn't a matter of personal tastes, but I have read a few fics that spoke of a very deep but utterly platonic relationship between the two girls.

I've also had fics of other genres where I examined non-romantic relationships between two characters of the same gender. I actually had a review where the reader was surprised and even a little upset that it wasn't a romance between the two characters. I mean, what the hell?



In continuing to the main discussion... okay, so it has been decided that fanfiction cannot be total and true canon.

I still like my characters to be recognized as those in the show.

And, save for very few exceptions, I hate to read fics that pretend that things that happened in the show did not exist.