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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:06:41 GMT -5
Reevaluation of K/R feelings (Season 2) page 31 Cached by Google on Aug 20, 2005 05:51:47 GMT. (Read 15,660 times) [CHANGE: page 31 is now completely here] ———————————————— JuPMod Blue Fox **** Joined: May 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 325 Location: New Jersey « Reply #450 on Jul 21, 2005, 2:31pm » Jul 21, 2005, 1:58pm, Rhonda wrote: “I noticed that.....why are we talking about the cities?” I simply had mentioned that I figured that Upperton and Loweton is part of the Tri-City area along with Middleton. I heard 'Tri-City area' in "Day of the Snowmen", and I knew those three cities were it. Just I never heard of Lowerton in any episodes. All these people were telling me the episodes where Lowerton was mentioned. That's all.  We now return you to your regular schedule thread. ;D ———————————————— Rhonda Blue Fox **** Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 495 Location: Littleton « Reply #451 on Jul 21, 2005, 2:33pm » Humorous. And okay then. ———————————————— Forlong Blue Fox **** Joined: Mar 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,225 Location: Kalamazoo « Reply #452 on Jul 21, 2005, 5:05pm » Jul 21, 2005, 2:34am, cloudmonet wrote: Wait. It could have happened after Return to Camp Wannaweep. When we see all the camps arround the lake that Gill attacked, the water is all murky and gross again. Gill may have made the lake toxic again, and no one has been able to fully detoxify it yet. Now that I think about it, I'd put it right after A Very Possible Christmas. But that's just me. ———————————————— cloudmonet Blue Fox **** Joined: May 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 757 Location: area 101, northern california « Reply #453 on Jul 21, 2005, 8:23pm » Nah, I think zombie snowmen have to come before Ron the muscular beaver. It's just parsimony. I mean, clean up the lake for "Return to Wannaweep," then repollute it for "Day of the Snowmen"? I don't think so. « Last Edit: Jul 21, 2005, 8:25pm by cloudmonet » ———————————————— Forlong Blue Fox **** Joined: Mar 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,225 Location: Kalamazoo « Reply #454 on Jul 21, 2005, 8:26pm » It would be terrably ironic. ———————————————— GnuHopper Guest « Reply #455 on Jul 21, 2005, 11:01pm » Folks, I just realized that A Stitch in Time is next up, so I was wondering if we should treat it as one entity or three separate episodes. Personally I'd prefer to take Present, Past and Future each individually just because there is so much K/R material here to deal with. Does everyone else agree, or would you rather cover the whole thing at once? GH ————————————————
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:07:34 GMT -5
[the rest of page 31 is from Google’s cache of the whole thread, so the presentation style changes slightly} ———————————————— Post by Porphyria_Kris on Jul 21, 2005, 11:08pm It would probably help with the continuity to go one segment at a time. ———————————————— Post by Rhonda on Jul 21, 2005, 11:32pm Yah let's go Past, Present, then Future, just so it makes sense. ———————————————— Post by GnuHopper on Jul 21, 2005, 11:41pm Actually, the correct order is first Present{/i}, then Past and Future.
GH
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Post by J2 on Jul 22, 2005, 1:52am
I'm all for that, if somebody can tell me where each section stops and the next one starts. I've only seen ASIT in the entire movie format. Please and thank you.
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Post by Slip on Jul 22, 2005, 2:11am
Present: introduction/start to Villians escaping form the time temple into time...
Past: Villans entering past up to Shego's escape with the time monkey.
Future: The hunt for Shego in the future to the end.
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A Sitch In Time, Present
Post by Aers on Jul 22, 2005, 8:47am
maybe it's just me, but I almost weep at seeing the "Present" episode... here we have Kim and Ron cruelly torn from each other's arms (literally) and the destruction of not only Team Possible, but also of their friendship as they try over and over again to meet up and it's just not working.
Kim desperately needs Ron, so much that she tries to recruit Monique in a failed attempt to get back in the game, which doesn't work. She needs the Ron Factor and for more than just a snappy sidekick way. The fact that she loses every battle shows that while she may be able to do anything, she can't function as a crimefighter without da Ronster by her side.
awfully romantic... and darned weepy!
*sniffle*
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Post by KR FOREVER on Jul 22, 2005, 11:16am
what do U mean almost cried?! I Cried A LOT!!!!!! Every sengel time I wach it, I cry! It is sad! the cant live with out each other! they belong together. But I dont like the thing ware you see them in the fucher! [on the dvd] The would NOT EVER look like that! exspeshely Ron. He would be all strong and musuly but not to much like drakken was or like he was in "Ron The Man" But he would look hot all the same! ;D
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Post by Rhonda on Jul 22, 2005, 12:40pm
I had to cry too.  It's so depressing that they got moved apart! It reminds me of when I moved from California and i had to leave my very best friend.
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:08:07 GMT -5
Post by cloudmonet on Jul 22, 2005, 12:59pm
Only the small part of "A Sitch in Time, present" that happens before Ron and Kim see the "for sale" sign can actually be said for certain to have any effect on their lives "after" Ron destroys the Time Monkey at the end, so I'm going to study that part separately first.
We see a lengthy segment of cheerleading practice (the opening credits in the movie version, a longer than normal teaser in the episode version), followed by Kim and Ron walking home together, Kim all dressed up in a dark green velvet shirt and miniskirt, Ron looking normal. Note to Kim: picture day? Why don't you wear that?
They're talking to each other. It's the start of a new school year for them, probably Junior year. So bear in mind, if what we were told at the MHA chat is correct, we're only about eight months before "So the Drama" already.
Ron's excited because he and Kim are going to have every class together, but he's also excited because some girl named Mary, who we never see or hear about again, said "Hi," to him.
The rule that "we're best friends, but just friends," will be a bit more rigidly applied (most of the time) by either Kim or Ron from now on till very near the end, even when it starts seeming dumb and dumber to continue doing this (Emotion Sickness, Bad Boy, Gorilla Fist, the opening episode of So the Drama). So there's going to be an increasing disconnect or tension between how Kim and Ron appear to feel about each other and what they actually allow themselves or each other to do.
But what happens here? We veer into an alternative reality, an experiment of sorts, in which Ron's family moves to Norway, and Kim and Ron are separated. We see the biggest hug we're gonna see before Emotion Sickness, and a vow to continue the friendship and partnership. "I couldn't save the world without you, Ron," she says, and the events that follow seem to prove her right.
In all fairness to Kim, even if Ron were around, she's faced with an unusual challenge: Drakken, Shego, Monkey Fist, and Killigan all working together, with (at least for now) Monkey Fist being the team leader. They're not such a good team, really. As Shego notes in her frustration, they pointlessly bicker instead of working toward a common goal: stealing the parts of the Time Monkey, reassembling them, and activation. Nonetheless, there's four of them, and they manage to defeat Kim three times, once alone (the Tri-City Museum), once with Monique (Austrailia), and once with Ron (Africa).
First time, Kim actually does pretty well for awhile, but gets surprised by Shego and shut in an empty mummy case. Okay, she should have been expecting Shego after seeing Drakken, and probably was, but Shego surprised her. Not the first time Kim has ever been taken prisoner. But Team Evil aren't interested in imprisoning Kim, just getting away. Despite being way late, Ron's the one who sets her free.
Second time, we see Monique fail miserably as a sidekick. Maybe there is something really special about Ron. Or maybe he failed as miserably as Monique, the first few missions he went on with Kim. On the actual first mission, which we'll see in "Past," he was pretty much a bystander.
So what goes wrong for Monique? She has street smarts and tough talk, as we'll see in "Exchange," where she's quite willing to take on Kim -- "You gonna use some of that chump hero kung fu on me? Bring it on!" -- but here in Australia she strikes out. Drakken and Monkey Fist scare her with their appearance, Shego scares her with her green plasma, and Killigan with his golf ball bombs. But twenty years of training? Monique, I don't know. It might not take that much, at least not if you're assisting Kim. Working solo, maybe so.
Then Ron in Africa, on time but kind of battered from the trip. He's rusty and out of synch with Kim, or at least that's the conclusion they come to. The passing maneuvers which worked so well with the synthoplasma can in "Mother's Day" fail with the monkey head.
Their conclusion is debatable. The opposing team was bigger, with two kung fu experts (Shego and Monkey Fist) instead of one, and no steam pipe to create a smokescreen.
But they're both demoralised, and think they're unable to do anything at all, till help and encouragement appear out of the blue from a new character, Rufus 3000, who we'll soon meet.
Note to Ron: if you ever find yourself stuck in Norway again, forget the meat cakes and cabbage stew. Dude, this is where Jarlsburg swiss cheese comes from! Wade shoulda told you.
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:10:36 GMT -5
Reevaluation of K/R feelings (Season 2) page=32
Cached by Google on Aug 20, 2005 08:58:37 GMT. (Read 15,686 times)
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Rhonda
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« Reply #465 on Jul 22, 2005, 1:21pm »
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:11:28 GMT -5
Rhonda
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« Reply #471 on Jul 22, 2005, 3:31pm »
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:12:09 GMT -5
J2
Guest
« Reply #474 on Jul 23, 2005, 5:31am »
ASIT invokes both shippiness and tragedy. We see Kim and Ron talk to each other well, communicate when they're apart, miss each other, hug each other, console each other, and a number of other things. And in the end, a time paradox means that it never happened. Tragedy, as I wonder what would have happened to Kim and Ron if they returned back to that time remembering all that had happened. What would they feel and say to each other? And yet, I'm satisfied with the surprise ending. Most time travel episodes and movies show a dramatic change of events; which is boring and why I put off ASIT for so long. But it takes a new approach to say that nothing happened and Kim and Ron are left with a few subconscious memories. One last thing: I really feel sorry for Shego in ASIT. I'll leave that for another thread. Now setting radar for shippiness.
RON: You got it going on, Bon Bon. I think she's warming up to me.
Later . . .
RON: Mary Garayano (spelling?) said, "Hi!"
Here, we see that Ron is trying to make Kim jealous. First, he gives Bonnie a pet name and then tells Kim that she's warming up to him. Kim knows Bonnie won't have anything to do with Ron, but gets upset enough to walk away from him. The second comment is the same, but Ron is grasping at straws by mentioning this. Apparently, he plans on telling Kim every strange look, smile, or positive comment to entice her. Later when discussing Latin class, Ron puts his arm around Kim and says,
RON: We're in it together. And that's what counts.
No wonder Ron is psyched about the school year. He plans on hitting on Kim big time. This is Ron's way of saying, "We're a couple!" This is one of the few times that Ron is passing off signals that Kim doesn't pick up on. However, she has her own way to get Ron's attention. Having all classes together, Kim knows that Ron will be checking her out with that miniskirt. She knows Ron has a weakness for them. This idea will be supported by Emotion Sickness. But that's later. Now this is where the time paradox begins. So technically, nothing truely happens from this point on. But it's going to be fun analyzing it anyways.
Ron comes to his house to see that it's sold and he's moving to Norway. For the first time, Kim and Ron have to deal with separation. They automatically question their strength of friendship, and how can they save the world apart. They realize that there is more to it than just them being together. They need each other. They admit this for the first time to each other. Remember that Kim told this privately to Monique in The Ron Factor. Next comes the infamous hugging scene. Like the treehouse scene in STD, perhaps Kim and Ron would have admitted their love for each other at this moment if not interrupted by Ron's parents. This again shows how dense Mr. & Mrs. Stoppable are about their son, and even more so with his feelings for Kim. The Possible family are a bit more traumatized. Mrs. Possible clearly notices Kim is upset and consoles her. The tweebs protest Ron's absense. And Mr. Possible wonders why Ron calls every five minutes. Which brings us to the next point. Kim and Ron begin communicating constantly while they're away from each other. This is more than Adventures In Rufus-Sitting. Kim is sleeping with with her kimmunicator right next to her ear so she can talk to Ron whenever he calls. And she doesn't protest about how much he calls either. Even though it's the middle of the night and Ron is interested if Mary Garayano is talking to anyone else.
Later, someone is sneaking into the museum. Kim takes on the mission alone, and Ron promises that he will be there eventually. Kim discovers that Drakken, Shego, Monkey Fist, and Duff Killigan have all teamed up to steal the Time Monkey. Without Ron and The Ron Factor to help her, Kim loses. The bad guys get away. They also note that Ron isn't there, but they don't care. Ron shows up the next morning, and Kim begins to realize that Ron being gone is not going to work out for her. Later, Ron tries to cheer her up. He lets her believe that he's doing okay, and puts up a brave front about it. Kim isn't sure to believe him, but accepts it anyways. As soon as she's gone, Ron lets the horrible truth come out begging for Bueno Nacho. Lamb cabbage stew and meatcakes are not for him or Rufus. Despite Ron's upbeat outlook, Kim can't be happy. She looks at the picture of her, Ron, and Rufus now hanging in her locker. She remembers the good times. Noticeable of Kim's feelings, Monique comes forward to be a Ron substitue. Again, it doesn't work. And if Kim had more time, she might have told Monique her feelings for Ron. By now, Kim should have realized that she's in love with Ron. Or at the very least, that she and Ron had some sort of bond that went beyond friendship. Next, we have these lines.
KIM: Booya!
RON: What's the sitch?
Here, Kim and Ron are mixing their personalities to help remember each other. This is more so for Ron, who parachutes in Australia like a pro. In other words, like Kim. Then we have Ron back in Norway, talking to Kim, and a cute girl walks up to Ron as though she interested. Ron's response?
RON: Excuse me! Private talkie! Do you mind?!
Translation: I'm talking to my girlfriend here! Beat it! Ron actually picks up her signal that she's interested in him. But he's not hesitant to tell her that he's not interested in her. Then he turns around and tells Kim that there is too many blonds there for him to get interested in. Again, Kim fails to pick up his signals. Then they're both off to Africa to stop the bad guys from activating the Time Monkey. And they fail! And worse, they know why. It's because they're not together and it's tearing them apart.
One last thing: Ron's comment to Shego I believe to be a distraction only. Although I've seen fanfics with a Ron/Shego relationship probably stemming from this line.
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GnuHopper
Guest
« Reply #475 on Jul 23, 2005, 10:43am »
Well done analysis J2. If I may notpick on one point: the nickname "Bon Bon" for Bonnie was actually fist used by Bonnie's mother in "Downhill" where Ron and Kim both heard it (and saw how it mortified Bonnie), so I'd say he's using it here to annoy her, not flirt.
"Present", like the rest of the "Sitch in Time" trilogy, deals with the theme of destiny -- what is meant to be, and what happens when something monkeys around with fate. In this case destiny's subjects are Kim and Ron. Meant to be a team, friends, a couple - what have you - when separated they find their lives spiraling downward, their personal effectiveness curtailed, and the evil they've always opposed on the ascendant. If "So the Drama" will deal with what Kim and Ron mean to each other, "A Sitch in Time" deals with what they mean to the rest of the world. Broken up as we see here, things begin the slide into the abyss. Before the story is over, we'll literally see their world fall apart due to the absence of the Possible/Stoppable team.
And that scene where Kim goes to sleep cuddled up to the Kimmunicator is still one of the most heart-tugging moments in the entire series...
GH
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:13:06 GMT -5
cloudmonet Blue Fox **** Joined: May 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 757 Location: area 101, northern california « Reply #476 on Jul 23, 2005, 11:59am » Is Ron trying to make Kim jealous? Excellent question, that. He's already observed positive affections from Kim after Zita. Don't know if the "Golden Years" college girls were meant to have a similar effect. This didn't seem to have any effect. But as long as Kim insists "we're just friends," Ron does put his interests and attempts right in front of her. But if a jealin Kim is his prime or only reason for the Mary Garyano bit, what good can it possibly do him, stuck in Norway? The easiest explanation is he had some real interest in Mary, or thought she had some in him. His reaction to the Norwegian girl, and Kim's reaction to the interaction, always puzzled me a bit, but J2's take seems as probable an interpretation as any. But I wonder, was Kim implying Ron was being rude, or the Norwegian girl? I'm not sure whether Ron noticed she was interested in him, or just plain didn't care. This could be just because everything about the country annoys him. It could also be because having another girl show interest in him is useless if he can't use her to make Kim go jealous and pay him more attention, which would fit J2's theory of this. For Ron, it does seem all about keeping Kim close to him. If this means dating her, he'll do it. If it means being just friends and helping her date someone else, he'll do it. If he thinks dating her would cause a separation (Emotion Sickness), he'll try to refuse to do it. In this part of the movie, he's not close to her at all, and yet, the forced separation is forcing them to be closer. The real heartache for me is watching them go through all this, and not remember more than shadows. But really, if being with Kim matters more to Ron than anything else, we're either heading toward romance or emotional catastrophe. In "So the Drama," Ron will, in fact, experience both. Does being with Ron matter more than anything else to Kim? Maybe not quite as much, not yet, but having him removed from the scene is still devastating. It's interesting that Ron, who usually wears his heart of his sleeve, hides the true magnitude of his distress about all things Norgegian from Kim. He could be doing this because he doesn't want to distress her any more than she is already. He could be trying to present just the positive side of his emotions because he thinks she likes this more. It reminds me of the missions he undertakes on his own for Kim's sake, in "Christmas," "Blush," and "Sick Day." What would have happened if Kim had known about Ron's real state of mind? ———————————————— JuPMod Blue Fox **** Joined: May 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 325 Location: New Jersey « Reply #477 on Jul 23, 2005, 3:33pm » ^ Don't forget about "Overdue", cloudmonet. He went out of the way to help Kim, knowing it was his fault for her being under the libraian's wrath. ———————————————— Rhonda Blue Fox **** Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 495 Location: Littleton « Reply #479 on Jul 23, 2005, 10:41pm » Yick. I dont think I'll go visit that country now.....bad images of being force fed meat cakes.... ———————————————— {End of Page 32} |
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:38:12 GMT -5
Reevaluation of K/R feelings (Season 2) page 33Cached by Google on Aug 17, 2005 01:23:03 GMT. (Read 14,935 times) ———————————————— KR FOREVER Blue Fox **** Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 304 Location: missouri or beside ron! « Reply #481 on Jul 23, 2005, 11:51pm » Ron will do WHATEVER it takes to make Kim happy! No matter what the costs are! ———————————————— Rhonda Blue Fox **** Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 490 Location: Littleton « Reply #482 on Jul 23, 2005, 11:53pm » KR Forever, couldn't have said it better myself! ———————————————— GnuHopper Guest « Reply #483 on Jul 24, 2005, 11:23am » Shall we move on to Part 2? Much K/R shippy goodness awaits us in Past!  GH ————————————————
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:39:14 GMT -5
cloudmonet
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« Reply #484 on Jul 24, 2005, 1:30pm »
A Sitch in Time, past.
Enter the deus ex machina, Rufus 3000, the muscular mole rat, wearing a uniform and zapping into Kim's bedroom with a time-warping sapphire bracelet, to recruit her help defeating "The Supreme One." A glimpse of the future shows a troop of minions in Shego uniforms, and Kim assumes, since Drakken made her wear a Shego uniform when she was under his control in "Twin Factor," that he conquered the world.
In this episode, Drakken does seem to be the leader, trying to use the time monkey to try to eliminate Kim as an impediment to other schemes.
So Kim goes back to preschool, where she finds an adult Shego to fight, and three evil toddlers hassling her toddler self. Since Drakken, Duff, and Monkey Fist have already inserted themselves, what we see is a highly modified version of their meeting.
Ron rather gallently (for a four year old) comes to Kim's rescue, and tries to talk our supervillain toddler bullies into being reasonable. So cute. They of course, try to jump little Ron, and little Kim starts attacking them with martial arts?!
Okay, something real here that almost certainly didn't show up in the Kim and Ron's first meeting. Pre-K Kim already knows some kung-fu, or something. Where? How?
My theory is Nana. When Kim was a toddler, Nana must have taught her some of this stuff, and Kim doesn't remember this, later. Nana, on the other hand, thinks she's created a monster, so to speak, and encourages Kim to channel her athletics into something appropriately feminine, like cheerleading! (So like the ballroom dancing remark in "Golden Years.")
Where else would little Kimmie learn this? She hasn't been to any other schools, hasn't been away from her family at all.
Oooh, am I on a speculative roll, or what? In unmodified real life, Kim will be use her skills to defend Ron against Arte Johnson in the slingshot incident mentioned in "So the Drama."
And when the first incident's over, teenaged Kim wants to hang out at the schoolyard fence, wistfully watching her four-year-old self playing with Ron.
Flash forward, literally, to a Middle School Kim and Ron. Kim's wearing braces, trying out for cheerleading, and setting up what she thinks will be a website for her babysitting service. They both look about 11, but most cartoon kids seem to hit puberty a bit older than real ones, so I guess they're supposed to be 13, and in 7th grade at least. (The Tweebs, supposed to be 10-11 over the course of the series, are about the size of three year olds.)
Here we see a good slice of unaltered reality (except for Shego peeking in the window). Kim gets summoned by accident to assist a cuddlebuddies collector who's gotten trapped by his own security system. This is little Kim's first moment in the sun, and she succeeds brilliantly. I get tears in my eyes every time I watch the hero being born. Ron instantly sees the potential to this, and starts promoting her. "She can do anything. We're worldwide!"
Wow.
Meanwhile, Drakken, Shego, and Killigan and waiting for Monkey Fist to return with the rock gorilla, having rejected Drakken's idea to repeat his unsuccessful plot in favor of Monkey Fist's scheme.
So Kim, having completed her first mission successfully, is suddenly facing four supervillains and an awesome problem. Enter older Kim, in the nick of time, and shortly thereafter, Ron, dressed in a Norwegian folk dancing costume.
Smaller Ron is running back and forth, screaming "Giant Monkey!" to hilarious effect, but also giving us the important information that Kim's first mission happened after Ron's traumatic summer with Bilbo (or is it Bobo?) the Chimp at Camp Wannaweep.
And after a lot of action, it's bigger Ron who saves the day, turning the deadly lasers back on. Does he really not remember what the button does, or does he know what he's doing and playing dumb for comic effect? Hard to tell with Ron, sometimes.
So Supreme Shego time-monkeys in, telling younger Shego to steal the time monkey when the boys get arrested, forming a disturbing closed circle of causality. So it takes a Shego who's already conquered the world to convince Shego to go for it? All through this movie, we're watching events already messed with get more messed with.
Kim decides to take the battle to Shego's future and Ron says he's staying beside her from now on, no matter what.
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Darth Vader 9000
Guest
« Reply #485 on Jul 24, 2005, 1:44pm »
You know thats a good summry for the ep
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GnuHopper
Guest
« Reply #486 on Jul 24, 2005, 2:50pm »
If Present is about the dissolution of the Possible/Stoppable team, Past backtracks to show us how the team formed to begin with -- or at least a Tempus Simia-altered version of those events. As I noted previously, the running theme of these episodes is "Destiny", and here in Act II our Quartet of Crime learns that undoing what was meant to be is not as easy as they supposed.
We get a fairly good selection of K/R moments this time out. First up is Kim and Ron's goodbye over the Kimmunicator, as Ron tells her the long distance team thing isn't working out and she'd be better off going it alone from now on. Kim, normally level-headed, is forced to agree but then is quick to seek assurance from Ron that they're "still friends?" "Always" he agrees, then signs off. And we see an apparently sobbing Kim thrown herself face down on the bed. This is only the second time in the series we've seen Kim get teary-eyed (the first being in A Very Possible Christmas), both occassions motivated by the thought of losing Ron.
A brief, cute scene has little Kim (voiced by War of the Worlds's Dakota Fanning) being dropped off by her parents at pre-school. We hear the origins of the "please and thank you" and "anything is possible for a Possible" catchphrases as her father assures her that she'll be okay once she makes a friend. Ah, if he only knew where *that* would one day lead...!
Later we see Ron and Rufus in Norway, looking through a photo album of old pictures of them and Kim. (Question: what happened to the video scrapbook Kim gave him in AVPC?). Ron waxes nostaglic first about his days as the Middleton Mad Dog, then about his first meeting with Kim in pre-K. We see a photo taken of their class day one, and then a curious moment when a "time ripple" causes the photo to change to include the minature versions of Drakken, Fist and Killigan and Ron notices the difference. How does that work? My theory is that since the Tempus Simia works by mystical monkey power, Ron's possession of same gives him some immunity to its effects. Which will come in handy in part 3 (if my theory is correct).
Pre-K. Juvinated versions of Drakken, Monkey Fist and Killigan harass the young Kim to "break her spirit". But the same x-factor that has ruined their plans time and time again is there: Ron. Four year old Ron Stoppable, both unusually eloquent and (as Cloudmonet noted) admirably gallant for a child his age rises to Kim's defense. The villains soon abandon Kim and target Ron instead -- a major mistake. Putting aside the improbability of Kim's apparently-instinctive martial arts skills, Team Evil, Jr. failed to realize that while little Kim might not defend herself, she has a seemingly inborn desire to defend the innocent. Seeing a boy who tried to help her being bullied is the key to motivating Kim to action, and in a clever jump cut we see little Kim become teenaged Kim as her destiny is sealed in that moment. A hero is born!
After the villains flee, teen Kim takes a moment to spy on the (revised) first moments of her friendship with Ron. "You're weird...but I like you." She smiles at him, he smiles back. And the rest, as they say, is history.
More to come...
GH
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:40:14 GMT -5
Porphyria_Kris
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« Reply #487 on Jul 24, 2005, 2:57pm »
Jul 24, 2005, 1:30pm, cloudmonet wrote:
Ooh, excellent theory and very sound. I'd just figured little Kimmie, being the spunge that she is considering new knowledge, had picked up the moves from the cornucopia of kung-fu saturated childrens television of the early nineties. Your theorie is much more sound, though.
And I adore little Ron. I noticed, he has an awfully big vocabulary for a four-year-old, doesn't he? He has so much trouble with "school words" in high school, yet he's talking about opposable toes and jungle law as a pre-schooler. The boy really is smarter than he lets on or realizes.
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Artificial Moose
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« Reply #488 on Jul 24, 2005, 3:18pm »
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 28, 2006 23:41:07 GMT -5
Forlong
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« Reply #489 on Jul 24, 2005, 3:48pm »
cloudmonet,
A few things I want to point out:
1: The kid's name was Arny Custer. How I can remember that name, and not the name a girl I talked to two weeks ago is beyond me.
2: Drakken said that Kim was a pre-teen (10-12 years old).
3: It's not so much that Ron didn't remember their first mission as nothing reminded him of where they were. Look at the scene; you'll see nothing that would defenately make Ron remember that he went back to their first mission.
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cloudmonet
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Location: area 101, northern california
« Reply #490 on Jul 24, 2005, 7:59pm »
I'm just botching name after name this weekend. Right, Norway, Arnie Custer.
12 years old would put Kim and Ron in 6th grade. It's hard for me to imagine them much younger than that, given what they do. I guess some Middle Schools have 6th graders. Or do any elementary schools have cheerleaders? I'm inclined to think not, but don't actually know. As for Ron's memory, I'd kind of expect him to remember the place, but maybe not.
« Last Edit: Jul 24, 2005, 8:01pm by cloudmonet »
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Porphyria_Kris
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« Reply #491 on Jul 24, 2005, 8:23pm »
Jul 24, 2005, 7:59pm, cloudmonet wrote:
“12 years old would put Kim and Ron in 6th grade. It's hard for me to imagine them much younger than thay, given what they do. I guess some Middle Schools have 6th graders. Or do any elementary schools have cheerleaders?”
The first middle school I went to included sixth grade. My elementary school also had cheerleaders, though the were more your rah-rah, shake the pom-poms type than the kind who did any sort of acrobatics. I think 12 and in middle school is a good place to place them.
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Rhonda
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« Reply #492 on Jul 24, 2005, 9:46pm »
My elementary school was through 7th grade, but no cheerleading.
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J2
Guest
« Reply #493 on Jul 24, 2005, 11:32pm »
Past ASIT really didn't have too much shippiness, as Kim and Ron are away from each other most of the time. It begins with Kim and Ron officially breaking up Team Possible, but that they'll still be friends. We then see Kim an emotional wreck, near tears with idea that she and Ron are separated entities. Then Rufus 3000 shows up, gives Kim a glimpse of the future, and tells her she needs to save the world through time.
Meanwhile, Ron looks through the old photo album to see pictures of he and Kim as young children. Even at this point of their young lives, their friendship is solid. We also see Kim and Ron meet at Pre-K, Kim setting up her website, Kim becoming a cheerleader, Ron getting Rufus, and Kim's first big mission to help people. But since Kim and Ron are young children, I can't really say that there is true shippiness at this time. I do believe the seed has been planted, but it will take time for it to blossom. What we have here actually is more cute and tender moments. There is this line:
RUFUS 3000: Kim Possible needs you!
He's figured it out that Ron is what makes Kim complete. Even though they're out of sync, it only takes a dire sitch to get it back again. Notice that as they are running, they hold hands a bit more than normal. I wonder if the preteen versions of Kim and Ron noticed this too. Next, The Ron Factor kicks into overdrive. The past is safe. Kim and Ron are a team once more.
A final note: Kim seems to have the power to do something new with the ability of a professional. This is supported by Coach Possible. One day she didn't know anything about soccer; the next day she was a tyrannical coach complete with knowledge of moves, maneuvers, and techniques. As for young Ron, he shows to be much smarter than someone else his age. If not for the crush to his psyche at Camp Wannaweep, Ron would be the one leading Team Possible. Either that, or dating Justine Flanner.
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Rhonda
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« Reply #494 on Jul 24, 2005, 11:45pm »
I wanted to cry when Kim went into an emotional collapse.
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:07:50 GMT -5
Reevaluation of K/R feelings (Season 2) page 34 Cached by Google on Aug 20, 2005 06:20:07 GMT, and apparently deleted on Mar 28, 2006. The internet is ephemeral folks. If you really like something, copy it to your own machine. (Read 15,670 times) ———————————————— Porphyria_Kris Blue Fox **** Joined: Jul 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 588 Location: Alabama « Reply #495 on Jul 24, 2005, 11:47pm » Jul 24, 2005, 11:32pm, J2 wrote: “As for young Ron, he shows to be much smarter than someone else his age. If not for the crush to his psyche at Camp Wannaweep, Ron would be the one leading Team Possible. Either that, dating Justine Flanner.” I too think that the Wannaweep incident had a real dampening effect on the blossoming psyche of young Ron. Who knows what he could have been capable of if not for the adverse effects of a supremely bad summer camp experience? I don't know if I'd go so far as saying he'd be leading Team Possible, but I do think Potential Boy would be more in the realm of Achievement Boy if not for that one awful summer. But then, it still works to his advantage... his enemies constantly underestimate him which gives him the upperhand when the potential has a chance to manifest itself. « Last Edit: Jul 24, 2005, 11:48pm by Porphyria_Kris » ———————————————— Rhonda Blue Fox **** Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 495 Location: Littleton « Reply #496 on Jul 24, 2005, 11:53pm » Hmm, I bet he would be Kim's partner instead of mostly the the distraction. ———————————————— naomi Yellow Trout ** Joined: Jul 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 93 « Reply #497 on Jul 25, 2005, 5:34pm » Hmmm maybe, we'll never know............. ———————————————— Porphyria_Kris Blue Fox **** oined: Jul 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 588 Location: Alabama « Reply #498 on Jul 25, 2005, 5:50pm » I still think of him as Kim's partner even now... have you noticed the fact that he does a lot of disabling of various dangerous devices (which threaten the largest amount of people) while Kim's duking it out with Shego. He's usually the one who calls himself the sidekick (well, him and the villains). I can't really remember a time when Kim referred to him as a sidekick. ———————————————— Forlong Blue Fox **** Joined: Mar 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,225 Location: Kalamazoo « Reply #499 on Jul 25, 2005, 7:37pm » Okay, notice how Ron tried not to cry to be strong for Kim. Awwww. Most people covered what I was going to, but they missed one thing. Did you notice the look Kim wore when Rufus 3000 brought Ron. She looked ready to hug and kiss him...then she saw what he was wearing... I guess clothes do make the man... And Kim never, ever called Ron her sidekick. « Last Edit: Jul 25, 2005, 7:38pm by Forlong » ———————————————— KR FOREVER Blue Fox **** Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 308 Location: missouri or beside ron! « Reply #500 on Jul 25, 2005, 9:11pm » ya! there equil! same! together! Partners! Dont tare them apart or they will tare YOU apart! Ok that sounded werd! sorry!  ———————————————— naomi Yellow Trout ** Joined: Jul 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 93 « Reply #501 on Jul 25, 2005, 9:19pm » I think we got your point........... « Last Edit: Jul 25, 2005, 11:45pm by naomi » ————————————————
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:10:37 GMT -5
Aers
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« Reply #502 on Jul 26, 2005, 8:30am »
Jul 25, 2005, 5:50pm, Porphyria_Kris wrote:
“He's usually the one who calls himself the sidekick (well, him and the villains). I can't really remember a time when Kim referred to him as a sidekick.”
I don't recall a time either, but I do know that Kim relies on him to provide the distraction - which doesn't necessarily MAKE him the sidekick, in my opinion. You'd have to be both brave and talented to try and catch and keep the bad guy's attention long enough to let Kim finish the mission and Ron does it without getting killed or caught most of the time.
I daresay that it's one of the reason why the bad guys fail - they underestimate the Ron Factor and mentally relegate him to a lesser role...
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cloudmonet
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« Reply #503 on Jul 26, 2005, 12:24pm »
Some of the time, Kim is the distraction, keeping the villains busy while Ron disables the device. Well, we seem to have drifted from specifics to generalities. This could mean it's time to move on to the attitude adjustment center and the grand assault on the Supreme One's citadel of doom.
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Rhonda
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« Reply #504 on Jul 26, 2005, 11:46pm »
I realize that Kim never called him the sidekick, but he's refered to himself as the distraction or the sidekick....Kim wouldn't say something like that.
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GnuHopper
Guest
« Reply #505 on Jul 27, 2005, 8:26am »
Okay gang, looks like it's time to move onto the climax. Future, anyone?
GH
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:11:47 GMT -5
A Sitch In Time, Future
Forlong
Blue Fox
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« Reply #506 on Jul 27, 2005, 1:29pm »
Future is mostly about the action and stopping Shego. I'd say that it's the most action-packed KP episode of all, hands down. I think I saw a few scenes where Kim was "admiring" Ron, but she stayed focused on the mission. She seems to like the fact that Ron managed to save the day. Check out the look on Kim's face when Ron effortlessly throws Drakken aside (pics please).
In the end, they only remember the emotions of their adventure. Ron knows that he hates meat-cakes, and Kim knows that the future is bright because of Ron.
Now to discus the song at the end. "This Year" by A*Teens. Let's examine the lyrics:
This year is going to incredible!
This year is going to be the one!
All of the planets are lining up for me!
This year I'm going to have fun!
Sounds a lot like what Ron's talking about:
"I predict that this will be the best school year ever."
This year I'll paint my masterpiece!
This year I'll be recognized!
I even feel, I've fallen in love for real!
This year,...this year!
Ron gets recognized a lot more at school after this movie. And, of course, he falls in love for real.
January I learned to fly!
February love is going to find me!
March, April, May!
I'll get carried away!
Kim and Ron get those flying suit things in season 3. They also start to really fall for each other after February.
This year I'm going to reach a pinnacle!
This year I'll get to the top!
People will ask, "Where'd she get that energy?"
This year I'm never going to stop!
Sounds a lot like Kim.
The makers of Kim Possible made up the soundtrack while doing A Sitch in Time, so I suspect they picked this song for the end as a foreshadowing.
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J2
Guest
« Reply #507 on Jul 27, 2005, 1:37pm »
Future ASIT draws to a conclusion the time paradox. Thanks to Ron's mystical monkey kung fu power (this needs an acronym M.M.K.F.P.), and The Ron Factor, the time monkey is destroyed and time repairs itself leaving our heroes with only bits and pieces of memory left. But before that:
RON: Here on out we're in this together, KP.
Here is another example of Ron's devotion to Kim. It's no longer to the ends of the earth with her, it's time and space as well. Later in the future, we see an ultra-buffed Drakken come out for the first time. Notice that Kim stands behind Ron as she is a bit afraid. Does she somehow think that Ron is going to protect her? Or is she using him as a distraction until she gets a plan? Either case works. Drakken doesn't deal with Kim until he moves Ron out of the way. Until then, he seems to be a security blanket for a few seconds so she can build her will to fight. Now this line from Kim:
KIM: You broke us up?
A lot of people are going to think this is shippiness. It's not. Kim and Ron are not BF/GF and Kim says this to indicate her separation from Ron. Not in any love relationship way. Now getting off track just a little, notice that Shego climbs up and is about to hit Ron, not Kim. Shego now understands that it is Ron who power and the unseen skill for Team Possible's success. Again, Shego would forget this after the time paradox corrects itself. Now notice that Kim and Ron are going up to the time portal, and it looks like they're holding hands. I'm not going to say they were definitely, since it appears a bit out of focus. Perhaps the DVD version can clear this up. But if they are, it shows how much this adventure has brought them together. Perhaps just as much as STD, with their separation as the catalyst for their love. Alas it is not so when they return to the present. But still, I can't think of a better ending for ASIT. Especially after the number of "time paradox" movies and tv shows that came out in the 80's and 90's. There was just too much of it.
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:13:08 GMT -5
Colin Glenncannon
Guest
« Reply #508 on Jul 27, 2005, 4:11pm »
Somewhat off topic, but here's a recipe for Norwegian meat cakes. They actually don't sound too bad, although a constant diet of anything will be wearing after a point:
Recipe for Norwegian Meat cakes
Ingredients:
- 1lb (450g) of minced beef
- a pinch of nutmeg
- a large pinch of ginger
- 1⁄2 a cup of potato flour
- 1⁄2 pint of milk or water
- salt and pepper to taste
Method:
1.
Mix meat with a wooden spoon until it becomes sticky, then stir in the seasoning and potato flour. Add the liquid slowly until it is all well combined.
2.
Form into thick rounds and brown in a hot frying pan, before cooking for about ten minutes in a small amount of water.
3.
Serve immediately with boiled root vegetables or cabbage for a traditional Norwegian meal.
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campy
Yellow Trout
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Posts: 79
« Reply #509 on Jul 27, 2005, 4:16pm »
Also a bit off topic, but one of the best meals I ever had was at Disney's Epcot Center in the Norwegian pavilion. I don't remember any meatcakes or Lamb & Cabbage, but there was lots of excellent smoked fish and cheeses.
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:22:21 GMT -5
Reevaluation of K/R feelings (Season 2) page=35
A Sitch in Time, Future continued.
Cached by Google Aug 21, 2005 16:15:49 GMT
(Read 15,856 times)
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Rhonda
Blue Fox
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« Reply #510 on Jul 27, 2005, 4:45pm »
[regarding the meatcakes recipe]
Ok hurl factor approaching critical here
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JuPMod
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« Reply #511 on Jul 27, 2005, 5:53pm »
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:38:12 GMT -5
Porphyria_Kris
Blue Fox
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Joined: Jul 2005
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« Reply #513 on Jul 28, 2005, 1:22am »
Jul 28, 2005, 1:08am, El Bissop wrote:
"Death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth!"
*points at Ron and makes random "sharp teeth" gestures*
Sorry, but the bunny wabbit statement called for Monty Python quotage...
Now back to your regularly scheduled analysis. ;D
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2005, 3:35am by Porphyria_Kris »
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naomi
Yellow Trout
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Gender: Female
Posts: 95
« Reply #514 on Jul 28, 2005, 3:11am »
Ha ha "If a cute whittle bunny wabbit started jumping around biting people's heads off left and right, you'd probably freak too."
Love it!
Wonderfull!
LOL!!!!
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cloudmonet
Blue Fox
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« Reply #515 on Jul 28, 2005, 12:31pm »
Well, looks to me like you've caught most of the relevant shippy moments. You can add my vote to the "looks like they are holding hands going through the time tunnel" contingent. Ron may complain long and loud about the destruction of Bueno Nacho and being forced to eat Norwegian meatcakes, but it's probably the separation from Kim that bothered him the most. I'd have to refer ahead to "So the Drama" for proof of this, and the skeptics won't be convinced (they all seem to be at other forums now, but they do read this thread occasionally), but we know that's his biggest problem.
And of course, the very nature of Ron's triumph at the end of A Sitch in Time means that a great shippy moment which otherwise might have happened, didn't, by which I mean Kim's reaction once they reach safety. Remember how she gushed over Ron in "Sink or Swim"? A big hug, maybe even a kiss, isn't out of the question, given what Ron achieved. This might have been enough to make Kim open her heart to Ron completely. But we'll never know. Kim and Ron forgot what happened before this moment, whatever it might have been, could happen.
That, for me, is the most frustrating thing about the whole movie. In its destruction, the time monkey cleans up everything like it never even happened, and we're left with Kim and Ron where they were back at the beginning, talking about being together in every class, Mary what's-her-name saying "Hi" to Ron, Ron's cryptic ghost of a memory about disliking meatcakes, and Kim and Ron almost but not quite a couple.
--------
Another note: after clicking post, I noticed how much, in the screenshot above, with his cargo pants, headband, and no shirt, Ron looks like a parody of "Rambo" or other heros of this ilk. Interesting symbolic quote, given Ron's achievement.
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2005, 12:35pm by cloudmonet »
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J2
Guest
« Reply #516 on Jul 28, 2005, 12:53pm »
Perhaps it is for the best. Kim and Ron are still a bit immature to move onto the next step in their relationship. This is especially true for the upcoming episodes Blush, Exchange, Triple S, and Ron Millionaire.
We can see that the separation is what can bring Kim and Ron closer together. But it's jealousy that will send them both over the edge and into each other's arms at the end.
ASIT has more of a "don't break them up because they belong together" theme to it. If they did remember everything that happened in ASIT, they would probably be more aware of each other's feelings. But despite the hugging, I don't see anything to indicate that they're ready to admit true love for each other. Again, they need just a bit more time to realize that they can be more than just friends.
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Forlong
Blue Fox
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« Reply #517 on Jul 28, 2005, 2:22pm »
What say we move on to Hidden Talent?
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:38:55 GMT -5
Hidden TalentJ2 Guest « Reply #518 on Jul 29, 2005, 2:56am » Hidden Talent shows how much Ron has faith in Kim's abilities. First, he signs her up for the talent competition. Then he's constantly suggesting things she could do for the competition. And then he becomes her number one cheerleader, keeping her going which allows her to overcome her fear of a bad childhood memory. He even leaves her while on a mission to get back and remix the music track that she will use. There's no doubt in his mind that Kim will get pull through. He manages to buy her some time until she can get there by showing that he can do anything if he puts his mind to it. While there isn't much shippiness, there is this line: RON: You're going to risk our reputation in front of the entire school and you can't even hit the high notes? Notice he says, "our reputation." He's no longer considering that they are two different people. This is reinforced by his dislike for Bonnie in this episode. Since Kim has a problem with Bonnie, Ron feels inclined to be at odds with her as well. Two points of interest in this episode. First, when Ron is standing in his underwear, and says, "My legs are cold." Notice that Kim looks at him; her eyes veering downward. Considering how much Ron has lost his pants in front of her, this isn't usually a problem. But this time it's different. It appears that she's looking at him a bit more than she needs to. Second, Kim swings into Dementor's palace, dodges the lasers, does some flips, and turns off the laser. Ron comes up to her a second later and continues talking to her. How did he get there so fast? P.S. I'm going out of town for a few days. I'll return on Monday. ———————————————— cloudmonet Blue Fox **** Joined: May 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 761 Location: area 101, northern california « Reply #519 on Jul 30, 2005, 3:03pm » "Hidden Talent" very much resembles "Car Trouble" or even "Rappin' Drakken." This time out, Kim and Ron are constantly together. Well, that was pretty much the plan expressed at the beginning of "A Sitch in Time." Whether this episode and "Return to Wannaweep" happen at the very end of sophomore year spring or the very start of junior year fall, just after "A Sitch in Time" is debatable, but doesn't matter too much. The reference to "last year" in Rappin Drakken is the only reason to push this back before "Sitch," but even that's not really necessary, because if Rappin Drakken happens in late spring, it's still "next year." Anyway, this episode is the last time we'll see Kim and Ron this close throughout for quite a while. Josh Mankey's last passage through Kim's life will trigger quite a soap opera, involving Josh, Yori, Hirotaka, some extreme sports fans, Bonnie (!), Bobby, and Penny, before their social life settles down again. I'll look at these one at a time in detail as they pop up.  So here I am, again posting pictures of Kim and Ron smiling at each other and calling it suggestive of how they feel about each other. It's not just smiles, it's body language too. Here Ron's crowding into Kim's space a bit, wanting to learn all he can about her new gadgets. She doesn't seem to mind.  And am I really imagining this, or is Ron just looking or staring at Kim more often, the surest sign of male admiration?  Um, what I said. Kim was ferociously annoyed at Ron entering her in the talent show without her permission, but most of the time, she is smiling at him.  Oh, they're smiling at each other again. How many smiles do there have to be for some people to admit that Kim and Ron kinda like each other? And if the smilage count increases, doesn't that suggest the amount of liking is also increasing? When exactly did Kim and Ron start randomly discussing their personal lives while on a mission? Is this the first time they've been that into something, or has it happened before? I'm not sure. In season three, it sometimes even happens while they're actually fighting someone. I'm going to tentatively mark this as a "Junior Year" characteristic. Kim and Ron have become so good at what they do that they often don't need to keep their heads in the game.  Ron and Kim reacting to Bonnie's video of the "Silent Night" debacle. Note identical body language, a trait seen in couples, or people who are very closely in tune with each other. We saw a lot of this body language stuff in "Car Trouble." And near the end of the episode, Kim and Ron separate, not because they want to, but because they're running out of time, and working separately is the only way to get everything done. Without Ron, Kim gets taken prisoner, but with a bit of help from Wade's devices, and the mother of all high notes, she escapes. Ron, meanwhile, has to stall, and enters the talent show himself, and does a vaudeville act with Rufus. Kim gets back in time to sing "Say the Word" brilliantly, to Bonnie's disgust, but Ron wins because "quantity is better than quality." Kim isn't visibly annoyed by Ron winning, though in "Rappin Drakken" she seems to be a bit displeased by the memory. Her primary motivation, and Ron's, throughout the episode, is to see Bonnie lose. The sad part of it though, despite Bonnie's annoying attitude, is that she really did deserve to win. Bonnie and Kim at this point are more than ever locked in a cycle of giving each other more reasons for mutual hatred, and Kim gave Bonnie a big one this time. This'll play a big part in the next episode, "Return to Wannaweep," when they're forced to be roommates. ————————————————
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 14:40:18 GMT -5
GnuHopper
Guest
« Reply #520 on Jul 31, 2005, 10:45am »
Quote:
“Her primary motivation, and Ron's, throughout the episode, is to see Bonnie lose. The sad part of it though, despite Bonnie's annoying attitude, is that she really did deserve to win. Bonnie and Kim at this point are more than ever locked in a cycle of giving each other more reasons for mutual hatred, and Kim gave Bonnie a big one this time.”
CM, I think you've hot on the reason this episode has always bothered me. Yes, Bonnie is arrogant and annoying...but she did work hard for years training for contests like these. Kim, OTOH, couldn't have cared less about the talent show -- until she found out that it was important to Bonnie. Suddenly it becomes top priority for her to win it, just to show Bonnie up. Ron goes along for Kim's sake, but really it's Kim's need to deny Bonnie something she's trained for years for for no reason other than spite that leaves a bad taste in my mouth at the end of the story.
Let's face it -- no innocents were helped by beating Bonnie. No particular injustices were avenged. Sure, Bonnie is stuck up and insensitive...but is that enough to justify what Kim and Ron do? Considering what Drakken & Shego are up to, don't they have better uses for their time?
I'll be interested in seeing what you have to say about the Kim/Bonnie feud in the analysis of "Return to Wannaweep", an otherwise unremarkable episode.
GH
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Porphyria_Kris
Blue Fox
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« Reply #521 on Jul 31, 2005, 5:34pm »
I agree with you two. Yes, Bonnie was trying to discourage and belittle the other talent show entries, but Kim could have just as easily told her off in order to boost the moral of the other students. Entering just to keep Bonnie from winning is not only spiteful, but it's sinking down to the level of bringing down others that makes Bonnie so hard to take. Yes, you may not like her personally, but you had to admit that she was talented, dedicated, and probably deserved to win. Not to mention that it was something both of her sisters won... since her sisters demean her on a regular basis that's where she gets her behavior from. They probably gave her flack about losing the contest... so really, beating Bonnie would only make matters worse.
That bit in particular iritated me.
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2005, 9:15pm by Porphyria_Kris »
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Forlong
Blue Fox
****
Joined: Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,225
Location: Kalamazoo
« Reply #522 on Jul 31, 2005, 7:55pm »
Jul 29, 2005, 2:56am, J2 wrote:
“Second, Kim swings into Dementor's palace, dodges the lasers, does some flips, and turns off the laser. Ron comes up to her a second later and continues talking to her. How did he get there so fast?”
Comedic timing!
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El Bissop
Guest
« Reply #523 on Jul 31, 2005, 8:33pm »
Quote:
“Let's face it -- no innocents were helped by beating Bonnie. No particular injustices were avenged. Sure, Bonnie is stuck up and insensitive...but is that enough to justify what Kim and Ron do?”
Well, KP's a fighter, not a diplomat. Her natural response to any perceived injustice is a massive and painful smackdown, rather than compromise, negotiation, or trying to find common ground. On the whole, this works out for the best, since most of the foes she deals with (i.e. Shego) aren't the sort who could be talked down (although I think folks like the Senors or DNAmy could be dealt with much more effectively with therapy).
Quote:
“They probably gave her slack about losing the contest... so really, beating Bonnie would only make matters worse.”
Again, KP's a fighter, not a therapist. She doesn't really care why people are mean or evil, just that they are. Besides, Kim knows nothing about Bonnie's home life at this point (other than the fact her mother is a bit of a space case).
Quote:
“Kim could have just as easily told her off in order to boost the moral of the other students”
Again, KP always goes for the direct approach. She's certainly a leader, but she hasn't learned to be a commander. While she's got a take-charge, top-dog personality, she doesn't have much experience inspiring others to band together. People look up to her for her daring deeds, but she's not much for encouraging people to become heroes themselves. After all, she can do practically anything herself, so she's never really had to learn how to motivate people to do stuff themselves. Ron, on the other hand, who isn't able to "do anything" himself, has actually gotten pretty good at rallying people around a common cause (Steel Toe and Pain King, the Everloters, the Spring Breaker army, the Pixie Scouts, Roachie and the roaches)
However, to be fair to KP, while she certainly wanted to see Bonnie lose, it was Ron's idea to show Bonnie up by signing up Kim. After that point, Kim's main concern was more about not looking like a total fool in front of the student body rather than making Bonnie look bad.
However, Kim does have a tendency to seriously underestimate Bonnie. In "Number One", Kim refused to believe Bonnie could be a good squad captain, in spite of all Bonnie's hard work, and was totally convinced Bonnie was cheating somehow. Here, we see Kim's complete dismissal of Bonnie's ballet skills, refusing to believe Bonnie could devote time and hard work into perfecting a skill. Kim can really be insecure at times, and the idea that Bonnie could ever be an even match for her in anything really pushes her buttons. Funnily enough, this is kind of the way Drakken treats Ron, and we all know what the consequences of that usually is.
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El Bissop
Guest
« Reply #524 on Jul 31, 2005, 8:47pm »
Anyway, getting back to Kim and Ron shippiness...
Well, Kim looks at Ron rather wistfully when he admits to sleeping with a night-light. She leans her head against her hand and kind of half-smiles at him. Kind of another of her "that's my Ron" moments.
Also notably, while Kim gets mad at Ron for signing her up for the talent show (another fine mess he's gotten her into), she doesn't stay mad at him for long (an hour later they're smiliing at each other and parachuting into the sunset), which is a big improvement from Season 1 where one of Ron's transgressions could have the two of them pissed of at each other for an entire episode.
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Post by cloudmonet on Mar 29, 2006 21:07:35 GMT -5
Reevaluation of K/R feelings (Season 2) page 36
Cached by Google on Aug 19, 2005 12:12:35 GMT
(Read 15,373 times)
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J2
Guest
« Reply #525 on Aug 1, 2005, 2:32pm »
It's true that Bonnie did deserve to win. Or did she? While we sympathize for her dedication to ballet, her intimidation of the other students (especially the one with the clarinet) signing up made her lose points with Mr. Barkin who was one of the judges standing right there watching her.
Kim had the most popular act that night. But everyone in Middleton knows she's talented. Even those who might remember the Silent Night Christmas play would not be expecting a repeat of that event. Bonnie should have known better.
Ron gets extra credit and the win by doing a variety of acts including tap dancing, ventriloquism, the national anthem done in crystal glasses (extra points from Mr. Barkin), and always a crowd pleaser: a martial arts display. Which was done with cement blocks and Ron's head!
So Ron wins. Bonnie loses. Kim is happy. Not particularly because she lost. But because Bonnie's inflated ego has been shot down. And also, because Her Ron, the last person anyone would think of winning, comes out at number one.
One final note about the talent show. A part of me believes Ron wanted to see Kim in the talent show regardless of Bonnie. Bonnie just gave him an excuse to sign Kim up. And Kim is willing to put all of herself in it just to please Ron.
Next up, how did Ron suddenly show up inside Dementor's palace right after Kim turned off the lasers? Comedic timing is a quick and easy answer. But I'm proposing two theories. 1) Ron simply found a different way in, meaning Kim didn't have to dodge the lasers. This would make her statement about not having any talents a bit amusing. 2) The Ron Factor which had Ron go down the same corridor, but somehow dodge the same lasers as Kim. Since The Ron Factor leaves Ron exhilarated and out of breath, I'm going for the first theory.
Finally, the shippiness in this episode involves Kim and Ron relation to each other in this episode. They're comfortable enough around each other to talk about everyday life while on a mission. And they are enjoying the same likes and dislikes. As CM already pointed out, a number of obstacles will be coming the way for Kim and Ron. It won't be until season 3 that they get back to this level of closeness again.
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GnuHopper
Guest
« Reply #526 on Aug 2, 2005, 3:43pm »
Time to move onto Return to Wannaweep yet? It's not one of my favorites, but we'll never get to the good stuff if we don't tackle this first.
GH
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It's so depressing that they got moved apart! It reminds me of when I moved from California and i had to leave my very best friend.
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