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Post by ninjanaco on Oct 10, 2006 11:44:44 GMT -5
The problem with the whole "anti-Josh" thing, besides its malignation of a decent guy, is that it avoid the principal problem of Kim/Josh - it's not Josh, it's Kim.
Let's look at how Kim has reacted to being with Josh. No, I'm not talking about the giggliness and so forth. Remember the dance in "Crush"? The Kimmunicator beeps, and Kim, eager to dance with Mankey, angrily turns it off (something Josh seems to not be so comfortable with - compare with Eric's active suggestion to ignore the Kimmunicator in StD). Then there's "October 31st" - Kim, eager to go to a party where Josh is performing, lies (thus ruining the plans of Ron and her family) and eventually risks the lives of those at the Middleton Hospital's Halloween exhibit. Finally, there's "Blush" - Kim risks embarrasing herself out of this mortal existence all for a date with Josh Mankey. While the episodes with Josh are few, there's a constant pattern of Kim doing the wrong thing due to the presence of Mankey, by no fault of Josh at all.
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Oct 10, 2006 11:47:07 GMT -5
Well, that's no reason to hate Josh.
It's like hating somebody for something they believe in or something.
Kim is just a typical female who acts stupid around guys. Disney seems to show that alot. Naturally, Sadie, Life With Derek, That's So Raven, Hannah Montana, Even Stevens, and more...
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Post by MrDrP on Oct 10, 2006 13:44:10 GMT -5
I'm actually glad we've seen Kim go gaga for Josh and Eric, even Hirotaka. In those instances, Kim turned into the quintessential crushing sheep -- and stopped being herself. That's not a good foundation on which to build a successful relationship, which requires the ability to be true to one's self.
It is only with Ron that Kim seems able to let down her hair (e.g., watch Agony County, be snippy and short-tempered, even pushy) and maintain her Essential Kimmitude. Ron may not be the hottest or swiftest guy in Middleon, but with Ron, Kim gets to have a real relationship that can last -- not a bad deal for someone who wants a "stinkin' BF!"
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Oct 10, 2006 13:46:25 GMT -5
Kim just wanted a man, and she got one. Man, I love that. Ron and her are perfect for each other.
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Post by MrDrP on Oct 10, 2006 14:49:59 GMT -5
Ron and her are perfect for each other. No argument here!
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Oct 10, 2006 14:53:40 GMT -5
Nobody in their right mind would argue that.
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Post by campy on Oct 10, 2006 14:55:37 GMT -5
Ron and her are perfect for each other. ... Nobody in their right mind would argue that. Other than on grammatical terms.
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Post by captainkodak1 on Oct 10, 2006 14:57:34 GMT -5
Kim feels safe around Ron. She knows that no matter what he will always be there for her. She knows he is not the best at somethings. But there is one fact that stands out clear and bright. He loves her no holds barred. A total, forgiving, accepting love. No matter what she does or how bad she may hurt him when she is not thinking straight, he still is there for her. The same for Ron. He knows Kim has some flaws, but instead of trying to change or ignore them, he accepts and embraces them. They truly were made for each other.
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Oct 10, 2006 14:58:30 GMT -5
Ron and her are perfect for each other. ... Nobody in their right mind would argue that. Other than on grammatical terms. I'm sorry?
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Post by campy on Oct 10, 2006 15:04:49 GMT -5
Other than on grammatical terms. I'm sorry? "Her" is an object pronoun, not a subject pronoun.
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Oct 10, 2006 17:41:01 GMT -5
Yeah... oopsies.
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Post by campy on Oct 10, 2006 17:52:11 GMT -5
No big, this is all informal. I just couldn't resist when I saw it and then the "nobody would argue" follow-up.
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Post by RC Williams♥Bonnie on Oct 10, 2006 17:58:03 GMT -5
No arguements here...
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 10, 2006 20:25:45 GMT -5
I'm gonna post this here as well as the "Monique" thread, because I think it is relevant to the reevaluation of "Molerat" and "So the Drama"
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Well, I already, several times if I remember rightly, went into an analysis of Monique/Brick shipping in So the Drama, but here's a summary of what I'm reading between the lines after also seeing "And the Molerat will be CGI."
In "Molerat," Bonnie hangs out with Monique as part of her plan to meet Heather. Monique willingly helps her. In "So the Drama," we see Monique and Bonnie together more often than ever before. In most of the series, they hardly even cross paths. At the beginning of "So the Drama," Monique calls Kim to talk about Brick and Bonnie, and Kim is concerned enough about this to take the call in the middle of the most thrilling action scene of the whole series thus far. At the Prom, Monique and Brick flirt with each other, although it must also be said that Monique seems to flirt with Erik briefly. In most of season three, we see a somewhat kinded, gentler Bonnie, but in "So the Drama" she reverts to bi t ch.
Do all these curious details add up to something? I think they do, and when I pointed this out to Mark and Bob at the Gargoyles convention, they agreed that I had a good idea. "Of course, that's it!" one of them said, and they both laughed.
This is the theory I told them, although I actually just sketched out a couple of phrases before they knew exactly what I meant.
The Heather scheme in Molerat leads to Monique and Bonnie hanging out together more. Monique sees Brick more, and the two begin to get friendly. Bonnie gets jealous and develops a dislike for Monique, which spills back over onto Monique's friend and Bonnie's rival Kim. Maybe Monique has a date or two with Brick. Then we're at the start of So the Drama, with the triangle going on in the background (which Bob and Mark acknowledged).
Yeah, actually Bonnie's bi t chy in "So the Drama" because it was written before "Bonding," but Bob and Mark thought I had a good explanation for it here.
And probably Monique's out of the picture again by the time Brick goes away to college.
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Post by cloudmonet on Oct 10, 2006 20:29:44 GMT -5
The problem with the whole "anti-Josh" thing, besides its malignation of a decent guy, is that it avoid the principal problem of Kim/Josh - it's not Josh, it's Kim. Let's look at how Kim has reacted to being with Josh. No, I'm not talking about the giggliness and so forth. Remember the dance in "Crush"? The Kimmunicator beeps, and Kim, eager to dance with Mankey, angrily turns it off (something Josh seems to not be so comfortable with - compare with Eric's active suggestion to ignore the Kimmunicator in StD). Then there's "October 31st" - Kim, eager to go to a party where Josh is performing, lies (thus ruining the plans of Ron and her family) and eventually risks the lives of those at the Middleton Hospital's Halloween exhibit. Finally, there's "Blush" - Kim risks embarrasing herself out of this mortal existence all for a date with Josh Mankey. While the episodes with Josh are few, there's a constant pattern of Kim doing the wrong thing due to the presence of Mankey, by no fault of Josh at all. Kim is totally hung up on Josh for a while, but he just seems amused and puzzled by her crazed attraction to him. Why would I blame him for this? I always liked Josh, but clearly Kim shouldn't be going with a guy who makes her so nervous and stupid.
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GnuHopper
Yellow Trout
"I've got mad 'fu skills!"
Posts: 131
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Post by GnuHopper on Oct 10, 2006 23:43:06 GMT -5
Well, I've always been of the opinion that Josh is a larval homosexual. Sensitive, artistic, turns down opportunities to date most of the female population of Middleton High, seems only mildly interested in Kim. Yes, some of that is cliche, but cliches exist because they contain a grain of truth. And if you still doubt me, look at this: Honestly, how many teenaged boys would seem so disinterested in a pretty girl giving them that look? I think Josh has probably not yet reached an epiphany about his orientation, but he strikes me as the type who will experiment in college and come to the realization of his sexual identity then. In the meantime he occasionally tries dating girls but can't really seem to work up any enthusiasm for them.
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Post by Avenger on Oct 11, 2006 1:30:59 GMT -5
Nabu! Get in here! Set poor, confused Mankey on the right path...
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Post by Ashley Benlove on Oct 11, 2006 11:43:00 GMT -5
Well, I've always been of the opinion that Josh is a larval homosexual. Sensitive, artistic, turns down opportunities to date most of the female population of Middleton High, seems only mildly interested in Kim. Yes, some of that is cliche, but cliches exist because they contain a grain of truth. And if you still doubt me, look at this: Honestly, how many teenaged boys would seem so disinterested in a pretty girl giving them that look? I think Josh has probably not yet reached an epiphany about his orientation, but he strikes me as the type who will experiment in college and come to the realization of his sexual identity then. In the meantime he occasionally tries dating girls but can't really seem to work up any enthusiasm for them. Just because a guy is a nice, sensitive, and artististic, he's gay?
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GnuHopper
Yellow Trout
"I've got mad 'fu skills!"
Posts: 131
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Post by GnuHopper on Oct 11, 2006 12:15:12 GMT -5
Of course. What, you didn't know that? But seriously, I'm more convinced by the lack of interest he shows in all the girls who apparently are smitten with him (per "Crush") and the fact that he seems so unmoved by Kim's infatuation with him. I've had a couple of friends who went through the same thing and didn't really face up to their orientation until away from home for the first time in college. One was a dancer (a guy btw) and the other became a journalist who doubles as an editorial cartoonist. Just something about Josh reminds me of them.
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Post by ninjanaco on Oct 11, 2006 12:26:22 GMT -5
Nabu! Get in here! Set poor, confused Mankey on the right path... You mean the wrong path. Anyway, I've got to disagree with Avenger. Josh did seem pretty happy after kissing Kim, as well as dating Tara. IMHO, his comment about the ambassador and the choice of movie (a kung fu flick) indicates that Josh was, at the time of "Crush" and later, attracted to Kim - Kim the warrior, the midriffed hero who saved the ambassador. Josh wanted that strong, independant woman, and what did he get? The babbling, nervous, giggly Kim we see on dates! Ergo he just lets the two of them drift apart, and winds up with Tara (at least for a while). For me at least, the discrepancy between the "warrior Kim" Josh sees on TV and the giggly Kim he meets in the hall is the reason why he looks so strained or whatnot whenever Kim goes into "the Joshzone," to borrow a phrase from MrDrP.
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