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Post by surforst on Jan 14, 2006 21:38:14 GMT -5
First off I'd like to say it's hard to put an emotion behind snide. Darn you for that choice! Anyway some attempts by me to write it in the context you wanted with my system.
"Well it was either build it here, or downtown Berkley." His face had a slight smugness to it. "And Berkley's got tougher zoning laws."
"Well it was either build it here, or downtown Berkley." A slight grin came to his lips. "And Berkley's got tougher zoning laws."
"Well it was either build it here, or downtown Berkley." His face remained emotionless. "And Berkley's got tougher zoning laws."
All of these change the way a reader could view the text. Just mess around with it is all I'm saying. As for Cloudmonet constant arguing with me I must say he's taking being wrong badly. ;D Though before I get flammed for our slower readers (I'm looking at you Surforst Jr) that was a joke. Everyone going to disagree about style and in the end it's what you like. Personally I always feel an author's story takes a slight hit when they depend on 'said' and sometimes it's been enough to make me stop reading. Enjoyable story but it really gets on my nerves after a while. Will the convince any of you to change who do this? I doubt it but you should think of what the larger reading audience wants. After all the only way you learn to write better is to write what your readers want. For example if you pair Kim and Rufus (been done) and the readers hate it (which they did) then you really need to reconsider doing this in the future. After all the point of writing is to create something people will enjoy not to just stroke your own ego. That's what a journal is for. Anyway I'm just here to help after all some of the issues I bring up are problems I find in my own writing. Live and learn.
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Post by Ron Spawn on Jan 14, 2006 22:32:31 GMT -5
There's only a few things that peeve me up about fanfic.
A. Horrible grammar or spelling. I mean, not just a few mistakes here and there, throughout the whole fic. It ruins the feel of the fic.
B. TOTALLY OOC. I don't mind a little bit, but I mean, when it goes to the extreme.
C. Ron cursing. I don't know why, just makes me weirdar go off when he curses.
D. (I know this is a really weird one, but) When people don't uh... Dangit, what's it called... When they don't shorten the word, example; they say "No I am not" instead of "No I'm not!" It makes the beat of the fic a little off, especially when Ron says it, because I just don't see Ron speaking that properly.
That's pretty much it. There's not many KP fanfics out there I like, but I've found a few.
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recon228
Pink Sloth
Special Agent
Posts: 1
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Post by recon228 on Jan 14, 2006 23:16:29 GMT -5
"Well it was either build it here, or downtown Berkley." His face had a slight smugness to it. "And Berkley's got tougher zoning laws." That's a good one. It portrays the same image I was looking for, but without the 'he replied' part. I'll keep that in mind for future chapters.  |
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Post by cloudmonet on Jan 14, 2006 23:33:35 GMT -5
"As for Cloudmonet constant arguing with me I must say he's taking being wrong badly," Surforst said, inserting a grinning emoticon to indicate humorous intent.
Cloudmonet typed in the tiny quick reply window, stopping to scratch his gray mustache, wondering just what there was about clarifying dialog that continued to irritate his friend Surforst. "It's a mystery," cloudmonet said at last, "like those who continue to believe in the absence of any signs of Kim/Ron romance before Season Three. Not, of course, that anti-shippers and anti-saiders have anything in common besides having viewpoints I do not understand." Then cloudmonet looked at the wisdom of Ron Spawn immediately above and said, "I meant to say viewpoints I don't understand," then clicked "Post reply" and hastily retreated to other threads.
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Post by cloudmonet on Jan 14, 2006 23:41:34 GMT -5
...or did he?
It's too long. I think it throws off the timing of the implied pause in dialog.
Hmm...
"Well it was either build it here, or downtown Berkley," he said, looking slightly smug. "And Berkley's got tougher zoning laws."
Naw, I like "he replied snidely" better. Concise, got that peace officer get to the point feel.
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Post by campy on Jan 15, 2006 8:31:23 GMT -5
D. (I know this is a really weird one, but) When people don't uh... Dangit, what's it called... When they don't shorten the word, example; they say "No I am not" instead of "No I'm not!" It makes the beat of the fic a little off, especially when Ron says it, because I just don't see Ron speaking that properly. From the episode Truth Hurts: Barkin: I assume you have all read, and are prepared to discuss, the classic novella Lo, the Plow Shall Till the Soil of Redemption. Ron: I did not and I am not. |
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Post by Ron Spawn on Jan 15, 2006 14:12:00 GMT -5
D. (I know this is a really weird one, but) When people don't uh... Dangit, what's it called... When they don't shorten the word, example; they say "No I am not" instead of "No I'm not!" It makes the beat of the fic a little off, especially when Ron says it, because I just don't see Ron speaking that properly. From the episode Truth Hurts: Barkin: I assume you have all read, and are prepared to discuss, the classic novella Lo, the Plow Shall Till the Soil of Redemption. Ron: I did not and I am not. ...Okay, you got me there. But usually, in normal conversation, I don't see him talking like that... Perhaps it's just my teenage brain crammed with horrible grammar. |
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jan 15, 2006 14:25:00 GMT -5
well, that *was* supposed to be a snarky comment from Ron - hardly the usual snackage commentary.
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Post by campy on Jan 15, 2006 15:47:07 GMT -5
True, but as soon as I read the peeve the dialog just popped into my head and I had to throw it out there.
But really, Kim & Ron don't use bad grammar. Sure, they use contractions and will say things like gotta or wanna, but that's fine for conversation. Certainly it is a very valid point that written dialog should sound like the characters. Just don't go writing Yori's dialog like that!
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Post by Ron Spawn on Jan 15, 2006 19:09:32 GMT -5
True, but as soon as I read the peeve the dialog just popped into my head and I had to throw it out there. But really, Kim & Ron don't use bad grammar. Sure, they use contractions and will say things like gotta or wanna, but that's fine for conversation. Certainly it is a very valid point that written dialog should sound like the characters. Just don't go writing Yori's dialog like that! -Nod nod- Point taken. I don't mind it when it's appropriate in fanfics. It really bothers me when it's a constant thing though, like I read one fic where they just din't contract any words. The whole sentance was like "I do not know. I am not sure this will work, but I am hoping that it will work." and Ron was saying it, so I was like "That doesn't sound like Ron at all." That's all I meant ;] |
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jan 15, 2006 19:13:08 GMT -5
but writing dialogue can be hard - seriously. the best way to learn how to write good dialogue is to listen - yes, I do mean eavesdrop on anyone and everyone - stand still for a few minutes in your hallway at school or at the mall and just listen, LISTEN to how people are talking around you. You'll be surprised at the number of dialects, the slang, the grammar and the phrases. then take that and transfer it into your story - read your dialogue aloud and if you're stumbling or stuttering over it, it's not right. If it flows and works coming out of your mouth it's pretty well assured to work for the reader.  |
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Post by Ron Spawn on Jan 15, 2006 19:15:06 GMT -5
but writing dialogue can be hard - seriously. the best way to learn how to write good dialogue is to listen - yes, I do mean eavesdrop on anyone and everyone - stand still for a few minutes in your hallway at school or at the mall and just listen, LISTEN to how people are talking around you. You'll be surprised at the number of dialects, the slang, the grammar and the phrases. then take that and transfer it into your story - read your dialogue aloud and if you're stumbling or stuttering over it, it's not right. If it flows and works coming out of your mouth it's pretty well assured to work for the reader. -Nod- I agree. The best way to learn is to listen. It just ruin the fic when the whole thing doesn't flow. You on the other hand are a lean-mean-fic-writing-machine ;D |
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jan 15, 2006 19:18:52 GMT -5
*creaking noise* that, youngling, is 'cause I've been writing fanfiction for over a decade - with well over 150 stories in a variety of fandoms. put in that much time, you gotta learn how to do SOMETHING right... *wanders off, entranced by sparkly ball thingie being waved by cat*  |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Jan 16, 2006 13:10:41 GMT -5
I think I have to agree with Cloud for much of this. There is no point in being obscure! Sometimes it works quite well for certain things, obscurity--like if you're having first person view coming out of unconsciousness. But clarity is necessary! It becomes awkward with too much "he said/she said", but it is still a minor thing, and some of the best story tellers are those who write SIMPLE rather than getting themselves and their story bogged down in random words. You must be careful!
The point, and I'm sure no one will dare disagree, is to move the story along with a good flow. If that requires lots of dialogue notice or little, so be it.
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Post by Ron Spawn on Jan 16, 2006 16:20:24 GMT -5
I think I have to agree with Cloud for much of this. There is no point in being obscure! Sometimes it works quite well for certain things, obscurity--like if you're having first person view coming out of unconsciousness. But clarity is necessary! It becomes awkward with too much "he said/she said", but it is still a minor thing, and some of the best story tellers are those who write SIMPLE rather than getting themselves and their story bogged down in random words. You must be careful! The point, and I'm sure no one will dare disagree, is to move the story along with a good flow. If that requires lots of dialogue notice or little, so be it. -Claps as tear comes to eye- You ever consider being a dictator?  |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Jan 16, 2006 17:31:59 GMT -5
-Claps as tear comes to eye- You ever consider being a dictator? Yes. That's why I'm going to be a teacher. |
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Post by surforst on Jan 16, 2006 20:01:37 GMT -5
"As for Cloudmonet constant arguing with me I must say he's taking being wrong badly," Surforst said, inserting a grinning emoticon to indicate humorous intent. Cloudmonet typed in the tiny quick reply window, stopping to scratch his gray mustache, wondering just what there was about clarifying dialog that continued to irritate his friend Surforst. "It's a mystery," cloudmonet said at last, "like those who continue to believe in the absence of any signs of Kim/Ron romance before Season Three. Not, of course, that anti-shippers and anti-saiders have anything in common besides having viewpoints I do not understand." Then cloudmonet looked at the wisdom of Ron Spawn immediately above and said, "I meant to say viewpoints I don't understand," then clicked "Post reply" and hastily retreated to other threads. Surforst frowned as he read the above post. Turning towards his dog he raised an eyebrow. "You understand this chap at all?" The dog looking up with her infinite wisdom shook her head. "I'm just a dog don't ask me these things." "I guess your right. Any thoughts on this topic though." "Well young Surforst have you ever consider that maybe your wrong." Looking back in shock Surforst quickly shook his head. "If I am wrong may God strike me dead!" Surforst frowned as he watched his dog run out of the room. "You disloyal mutt die with your master already!" Turning back to his keyboard he scratched his non-existent beard. Perhaps he should grow one when he got some time but for now he had things to reply to and stories to write. A smile coming to his face he began to type. "To Mr. Cloudmonet I'm right so there!" Ah yes the brilliance of this argument was sure to outshine his noble opponents feeble attempt at an argument. Today victory was with Surforst despite the rather rude remarks coming from his dog at this point. *There! Surforst can write pointless things too though I question why my dog can apparently talk now. Yet another issue to deal with later.* |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Jan 18, 2006 21:25:24 GMT -5
Since we're on the "good writing" subject...
I CANNOT STAND OVERLY ARTSYNESS IF THE WRITER CANNOT WRITE THAT WAY!
*takes deep healing breath and apologizes for caps*
I just read another one. It's like they are worried more about pretty words and sounds than telling a story. Yes, it can work wonders for a short little snapshot ficlit, but come on!
And for another thing... who's to say that just because Ron and Kim are officially an item they are necessarily going to go out and have a baby before senior graduation? And why, when that happens, do they live happily ever after?
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Post by Quin Separable on Jan 19, 2006 15:44:28 GMT -5
And for another thing... who's to say that just because Ron and Kim are officially an item they are necessarily going to go out and have a baby before senior graduation? And why, when that happens, do they live happily ever after? I know. That annoys me so much. I really don't think that Kim and Ron are going to "do it" before either of them had a chance to, oh, how will I say this, get married? To me they don't seem to be that type of people. |
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jan 19, 2006 16:24:00 GMT -5
well...
it's easy to go down the road of "get married, have kids" because it's cute and it's how we envision the happy family.
but let's take a hard look at that - are they really going to get married after high school and before college? Perhaps... but I can't see either family being wild about Kim getting preggers without a college diploma at least. To say nothing of at least waiting until Ron could get a good job to support them.
as well, let's ponder a second on the villain aspect - a pregnant Kim is *so* out of fighting and would, possibly, be a target for retaliation by the nasty ones who would take advantage of her condition. Nevermind try to nab the kidlet!
I'm not a big fan of this particular quirk because it's just not in line with the concept of her fighting the bad guys and winning - unfortunately she's going to have to keep putting parts of her life to the side to keep fighting the good fight and this may be one aspect of her continual sacrifice.
but that's just me.
*shrugs*
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