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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 18:54:10 GMT -5
Do people really not care about decent writing and plot? I'm not talking about the show, I'm talking about the fanfiction. Yeah, we care about writing and plot, but only when it's not being used for something that's sick and wrong. All the flowery prose in the world isn't worth half a cent if it's carved into a pile of manure. |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Oct 10, 2007 19:00:05 GMT -5
Do people really not care about decent writing and plot? I'm not talking about the show, I'm talking about the fanfiction. Yeah, we care about writing and plot, but only when it's not being used for something that's sick and wrong. All the flowery prose in the world isn't worth half a cent if it's carved into a pile of manure. ...and you're referring to the pile of manure as the change from the ship you wanted? Would you rather have a badly-written K/R shippy story where both characters are horribly characterized morons or a well-written, well-thought-out story with an intricate and thought-provoking plot that explored Kim and Ron's characters without putting them together as a couple? |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:02:39 GMT -5
Yeah, we care about writing and plot, but only when it's not being used for something that's sick and wrong. All the flowery prose in the world isn't worth half a cent if it's carved into a pile of manure. ...and you're referring to the pile of manure as the change from the ship you wanted? Would you rather have a badly-written K/R shippy story where both characters are horribly characterized morons or a well-written, well-thought-out story with an intricate and thought-provoking plot that explored Kim and Ron's characters without putting them together as a couple? I'd prefer neither, but given those extremes, K/R, because at least I could MST it well without wading through the proverbial manure. Heck, it may even be enjoyable, in the same way those stupid B-movies like "This Island Earth" were. Also, I consider separating Kim and Ron to be destruction of character, not "exploration." |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Oct 10, 2007 19:09:04 GMT -5
I'm still confused at what you are calling "manure". Flowery prose is not and as never been considered good writing.
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:13:54 GMT -5
I'm still confused at what you are calling "manure". Flowery prose is not and as never been considered good writing. Manure, in this case, refers to the accepted form of canon rape in which an author breaks up a canon ship for their own pairing. Now, I don't mind you writing a story with non-canon pairings, but when you break up canon ones to make room, you enter canon rape territory for me. ALSO: When I first heard "flowery prose", it was in a glowing review for some book. I thought it was a praise term, and am sorry for misusing it.. |
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Oct 10, 2007 19:19:04 GMT -5
I'm still confused at what you are calling "manure". Flowery prose is not and as never been considered good writing. Manure, in this case, refers to the accepted form of canon rape in which an author breaks up a canon ship for their own pairing. Now, I don't mind you writing a story with non-canon pairings, but when you break up canon ones to make room, you enter canon rape territory for me. ALSO: When I first heard "flowery prose", it was in a glowing review for some book. I thought it was a praise term, and am sorry for misusing it.. What if they break K/R up and create no other ships? (Again, I still have to wonder why it is so necessary to be shippy in every freakin' fic). Well, the way I always understood flowery prose, it was an insult. It means a writer has absolutely no story to tell, so makes up for it by overusing words. |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:22:16 GMT -5
Manure, in this case, refers to the accepted form of canon rape in which an author breaks up a canon ship for their own pairing. Now, I don't mind you writing a story with non-canon pairings, but when you break up canon ones to make room, you enter canon rape territory for me. ALSO: When I first heard "flowery prose", it was in a glowing review for some book. I thought it was a praise term, and am sorry for misusing it.. What if they break K/R up and create no other ships? (Again, I still have to wonder why it is so necessary to be shippy in every freakin' fic). Well, the way I always understood flowery prose, it was an insult. It means a writer has absolutely no story to tell, so makes up for it by overusing words. Still no. K/R breakup= canon rape. There is NOTHING, short of death or mind control, that would believably break them up. And the second wouldn't even be permanent, seeing as it has an obvious solution. |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 10, 2007 19:37:37 GMT -5
Do people really not care about decent writing and plot? I'm not talking about the show, I'm talking about the fanfiction. Yeah, we care about writing and plot, but only when it's not being used for something that's sick and wrong. All the flowery prose in the world isn't worth half a cent if it's carved into a pile of manure. What is 'sick and wrong' is subjective in many ways. You can look at 'anti-canon' fics as sick and wrong all you wish, just as long as you don't expect your opinion to be a universally accepted one. |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:41:59 GMT -5
Yeah, we care about writing and plot, but only when it's not being used for something that's sick and wrong. All the flowery prose in the world isn't worth half a cent if it's carved into a pile of manure. What is 'sick and wrong' is subjective in many ways. You can look at 'anti-canon' fics as sick and wrong all you wish, just as long as you don't expect your opinion to be a universally accepted one. Yes, but she's arguing that writing and plot should be the frontseat and the ship be the back. That's not right. Ships are just as important as those other factors. |
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Post by Alexlayer on Oct 10, 2007 19:44:08 GMT -5
Still no. K/R breakup= canon rape. There is NOTHING, short of death or mind control, that would believably break them up. And the second wouldn't even be permanent, seeing as it has an obvious solution. You lack imagination if that's what you think.  Anyway, I gotta agree with Scoutcraft Piratess, it's a shame that people might abandon a fic just because of its pairing when the plot was really great. I might not like K/R, but I've read fics with it just for the sake of the plot (Like ProudNintendoFan's " Origin of Evil"), and I've kept reading fics in which the pairings didn't really turn out to be the ones I wanted. To limit oneself to just one's favourite pairing is closing one's mind. |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 10, 2007 19:49:29 GMT -5
What if they break K/R up and create no other ships? (Again, I still have to wonder why it is so necessary to be shippy in every freakin' fic). Well, the way I always understood flowery prose, it was an insult. It means a writer has absolutely no story to tell, so makes up for it by overusing words. Still no. K/R breakup= canon rape. There is NOTHING, short of death or mind control, that would believably break them up. And the second wouldn't even be permanent, seeing as it has an obvious solution. Have you read Scoutcraft Piratess's fic "Envying Monte Cristo" (chances are you haven't, but y'never know)? It raises an interesting and rather heart-wrenching scenario where Kim comes back to Middleton years after her supposed 'death', to find that Ron has moved on (somewhat) and is engaged to Monique. If Ron chooses to stay with Monique, and considering the circumstances, is that canon rape? Technically Kim and Ron didn't break up, technically Kim was dead (as far as anyone else knew), so technically the conditions you met for a K/R split were met, were they not? |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:50:40 GMT -5
Still no. K/R breakup= canon rape. There is NOTHING, short of death or mind control, that would believably break them up. And the second wouldn't even be permanent, seeing as it has an obvious solution. You lack imagination if that's what you think. Anyway, I gotta agree with Scoutcraft Piratess, it's a shame that people might abandon a fic just because of its pairing when the plot was really great. I might not like K/R, but I've read fics with it just for the sake of the plot (Like ProudNintendoFan's " Origin of Evil"), and I've kept reading fics in which the pairings didn't really turn out to be the ones I wanted. To limit oneself to just one's favourite pairing is closing one's mind. I don't limit myself to K/R. I limit myself to pairings that don't break up K/R. It's not being "closed-minded," it's narrowing it down to the fics where they're IC (aka TOGETHER). |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 10, 2007 19:51:18 GMT -5
What is 'sick and wrong' is subjective in many ways. You can look at 'anti-canon' fics as sick and wrong all you wish, just as long as you don't expect your opinion to be a universally accepted one. Yes, but she's arguing that writing and plot should be the frontseat and the ship be the back. That's not right. Ships are just as important as those other factors. To you, yes, but you see, not everyone thinks this way. PS. I love how I'm like 3 posts behind every time I hit the reply button. STOP POSTING SO I CAN CATCH UP!  |
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Post by Alexlayer on Oct 10, 2007 19:54:17 GMT -5
I don't limit myself to K/R. I limit myself to pairings that don't break up K/R. It's not being "closed-minded," it's narrowing it down to the fics where they're IC (aka TOGETHER).  |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:56:11 GMT -5
Still no. K/R breakup= canon rape. There is NOTHING, short of death or mind control, that would believably break them up. And the second wouldn't even be permanent, seeing as it has an obvious solution. Have you read Scoutcraft Piratess's fic "Envying Monte Cristo" (chances are you haven't, but y'never know)? It raises an interesting and rather heart-wrenching scenario where Kim comes back to Middleton years after her supposed 'death', to find that Ron has moved on (somewhat) and is engaged to Monique. If Ron chooses to stay with Monique, and considering the circumstances, is that canon rape? Technically Kim and Ron didn't break up, technically Kim was dead (as far as anyone else knew), so technically the conditions you met for a K/R split were met, were they not? Yes, I'd call canon-rape there. I just can't see either of them getting over the other's death. If Ron stayed with Monique, he'd be bordering on, depending on other actions, entering a subset I've seen several times that I like to call Jerk!Ron. Jerk!Ron is a stereotype mainly found (to my experience) in Kigo fics to give Kim an *ahem* "plausible" reason to break up. However, this Ron, similar to the Daria stereotype of Evil!Tom, is vastly OOC. A good example of Jerk!Ron at his manipulative best is in clayton's fic "Dancing with the Enemy." |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 10, 2007 19:56:21 GMT -5
You lack imagination if that's what you think. Anyway, I gotta agree with Scoutcraft Piratess, it's a shame that people might abandon a fic just because of its pairing when the plot was really great. I might not like K/R, but I've read fics with it just for the sake of the plot (Like ProudNintendoFan's " Origin of Evil"), and I've kept reading fics in which the pairings didn't really turn out to be the ones I wanted. To limit oneself to just one's favourite pairing is closing one's mind. I don't limit myself to K/R. I limit myself to pairings that don't break up K/R. It's not being "closed-minded," it's narrowing it down to the fics where they're IC (aka TOGETHER). Okay, it's not closed minded. ...It's narrow minded. What? You used the word narrow. |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 19:57:19 GMT -5
I don't limit myself to K/R. I limit myself to pairings that don't break up K/R. It's not being "closed-minded," it's narrowing it down to the fics where they're IC (aka TOGETHER). Okay, it's not closed minded. ...It's narrow minded. What? You used the word narrow. Oh, yes, preferring the characters to be IN character is SO narrow minded. (/sarcasm) |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 10, 2007 19:58:41 GMT -5
Have you read Scoutcraft Piratess's fic "Envying Monte Cristo" (chances are you haven't, but y'never know)? It raises an interesting and rather heart-wrenching scenario where Kim comes back to Middleton years after her supposed 'death', to find that Ron has moved on (somewhat) and is engaged to Monique. If Ron chooses to stay with Monique, and considering the circumstances, is that canon rape? Technically Kim and Ron didn't break up, technically Kim was dead (as far as anyone else knew), so technically the conditions you met for a K/R split were met, were they not? Yes, I'd call canon-rape there. I just can't see either of them getting over the other's death. If Ron stayed with Monique, he'd be bordering on, depending on other actions, entering a subset I've seen several times that I like to call Jerk!Ron. Jerk!Ron is a stereotype mainly found (to my experience) in Kigo fics to give Kim an *ahem* "plausible" reason to break up. However, this Ron, similar to the Daria stereotype of Evil!Tom, is vastly OOC. Would you rather he commit suicide upon Kim's death? Because expecting him to go on completely loveless for the rest of his young life would be a bit much. |
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Post by NewSkool101 on Oct 10, 2007 20:00:23 GMT -5
Okay, it's not closed minded. ...It's narrow minded. What? You used the word narrow. Oh, yes, preferring the characters to be IN character is SO narrow minded. (/sarcasm) That was intended to be a joke, fyi. Hence the 'tongue sticking out' smilie. [/nonsarcasm] |
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Post by Robbie Valiant, P.I. on Oct 10, 2007 20:01:13 GMT -5
Yes, I'd call canon-rape there. I just can't see either of them getting over the other's death. If Ron stayed with Monique, he'd be bordering on, depending on other actions, entering a subset I've seen several times that I like to call Jerk!Ron. Jerk!Ron is a stereotype mainly found (to my experience) in Kigo fics to give Kim an *ahem* "plausible" reason to break up. However, this Ron, similar to the Daria stereotype of Evil!Tom, is vastly OOC. Would you rather he commit suicide upon Kim's death? Because expecting him to go on completely loveless for the rest of his young life would be a bit much. Well, no, I'd write the second. Of course, when I write death, I usually make it a comic book death. By the end of the story, they've returned, and their relationship has grown even stronger. |
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