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Post by Alexlayer on Sept 25, 2007 7:48:55 GMT -5
Personally, I think that Bonnie's sisters, as simply and briefly as they appeared, were a great adment to Bonnie's character. That scene alone shows a lot of her, making her more than just a one-dimensional character/archetype.
Sure, it doesn't justify her actions, but it proves that she is not evil just for the sake of being evil. She is just trying to prove her superiority because she needs to prove it to herself, or she would feel totally worthless.
Besides, we've also seen Bonnie's mother (Which we shall call Gertrude for the sake of a name) in "Downhill", and while she didn't seem to be a bad mother, you can totally tell she and Bonnie doesn't have a good "understanding", which means Gertrude might probably not be aware of her daughters' relationship and have no idea of what Bonnie is having to deal day after day.
This makes Bonnie not an evil person, but someone who is trying to fight her way as hard as she can, and because of all that she suffers, she doesn't care if others are suffering too. And as much as good as Kim is, she is indeed another obstacle/enemy for Bonnie, but she, apparently, been more sparing with Bonnie since "Bonding", when she got to learn why Bonnie was like that, hence the reason she helped her, regardless of everything she had done to her, in "Homecoming Upset".
But still, what we learn from Bonnie in "Bonding" show us that Bonnie is not necesarily evil, and that she has a chance to change for good if she'd be placed in a better enviorment and with people who treats her better. You can tell she can get along with others chearleaders like Tara or with Monique too, and I don't think they think bad of her. Being with Junior now might help her too. Bonnie doesn't have any need to be evil if she feels recogniced and appreaciated for whom she is.
Overall, good, bad or neutral, Bonnie is one of the most human characters in the show.
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Post by NewSkool101 on Sept 25, 2007 8:07:13 GMT -5
Overall, good, bad or neutral, Bonnie is one of the most human characters in the show. This, I agree with. Kim's character is too idealistic, Ron is almost bipolar at times with his characterization (I know someone's gonna wanna know what I mean by that but I'll explain later), Shego's characterization has varied from episode to episode - sometimes dramatically, and everybody else is either characterized to an extreme or not characterized much at all. Unlike the other characters, you'll find plenty of people just like Bonnie in the world.
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 25, 2007 11:00:15 GMT -5
This, I agree with. Kim's character is too idealistic, Ron is almost bipolar at times with his characterization (I know someone's gonna wanna know what I mean by that but I'll explain later), Shego's characterization has varied from episode to episode - sometimes dramatically, and everybody else is either characterized to an extreme or not characterized much at all. Unlike the other characters, you'll find plenty of people just like Bonnie in the world. You mean Ron's tendency to go from really happy to really sad in just a few moments and vice versa?
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Post by Nulla on Sept 25, 2007 11:40:15 GMT -5
i think its a great idea cos most shows in this field present a perfectionalist life with no problems. here bonnie is presented as a possible b*tch, but also has real problems at home.
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Post by FarAwayGirl on Sept 25, 2007 14:45:28 GMT -5
I used to know girls simaler to Bonnie with abusive sisters so it was very realistic. I liked it. It finnally gave a chance for people to see that Bonnie has it harder than ppl think.
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Post by lonestarr357 on Sept 25, 2007 19:09:36 GMT -5
Answering the topic, it really depends. Do you hate Bonnie? Do you like her?
I'm reminded of a line in Silence of the Lambs:
"Nothing happened to me, Agent Starling. I happened."
That scene in "Bonding" was pretty much Bonnie's Hannibal Rising: a somewhat pointless explanation/deconstruction of a despicable character. We are made to feel sorry for them because of the cruelty visited upon them...but to say that they are somehow better people and to ignore what they've done...well, that's how you prove P.T. Barnum right.
I still maintain that Connie and Lonnie were so beneath one-dimensional (Bonnie's vaunted level), they threatened to disappear right off the screen.
Honestly, I cannot take seriously anyone who mentions Connie and Lonnie in defending Bonnie.
As I said before...
I guess I'm answering 'bad idea', if only for the fact that it created such a half-hearted defense for her unpleasant behavior. You may as well blame her actions on Twinkies.
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 25, 2007 19:22:54 GMT -5
I disagree, one of the constant defenses of Kim acting rather crummy to Ron in early season was she was young and she'll outgrow it, well Bonnie is the same age, so shouldn't she get the same defense, she's young which is why she lacks the willpower at this point, who's to say 10 years after graduation she won't be a better person
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Post by Whisper from the Shadows on Sept 25, 2007 19:23:02 GMT -5
Again, I say that Connie and Lonnie are NOT[/color] a valid excuse for her behavior. Never in all of my rantings will you ever see me type that. What I said, is that it explains why she acts that way.
Imagine with me, if you will, that every day of your life you are told that you are a failure, that you don't "measure up" to some standard. Whether it be at home, school, work, etc... it's every day, constant berating of who you are. Eventually you will break (people with strong will power just take longer or react differently to breaking), and when you do, you will start to believe that you are, in fact, inferior.
Now to fix this most people will do everything in their power to show those degrading them wrong. They will put 150% into EVERYTHING they do, and try to pass it off as slacking, so as to make it appear they are 'that good'. And when they can't pull that off, they are forced to either accept that they are inferior (which almost nobody will do) or they will try and tear down their competition so they are head and shoulders above everybody else.
There are other reactions to this, though rare, one of them is to just accept and live life feeling a failure. These people are the ones that never make anything out of their lives, are always submissive to everybody around them, and on an all to often occasion the ones that end their own lives.
Bonnie's ability to push herself as much as she does, even in the presence of someone that constantly reaffirms what she's been told (that she's inferior) is a testament to her willpower. She has tried beating Kim fairly, by cheap methods, and even by trying to pull her down. None of which worked, only solidifying the idea in her head that she is second best, and second best isn't good enough.
Her sisters are only there as a catalyst to show what drives her. Her decisions are her own, no one else's.
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Post by Alexlayer on Sept 25, 2007 20:30:54 GMT -5
I said in my post that Bonnie's abusive sisters do not justify her actions, they explain them. But along this, we know that Bonnie's attitude is partly, if not mostly, a result of her enviorment. I seriously believe she would have grown into a better person without her sisters, and that she might show better traits once she is away from them.
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Post by NewSkool101 on Sept 25, 2007 20:47:18 GMT -5
Part of me wonders if this episode should've happened AT ALL. When it first aired, I was under the impression that the purpose of it was for Kim/Bonnie and Ron/Barkin to come to some sort of understanding, yet later on in the season and continuing into season 4, we see almost the exact opposite showing. Bonnie becomes even MORE spiteful towards Kim for no apparent reason, while Barkin suddenly turns into the one-dimensional mean-for-the-sake-of-being-mean teacher who puts down Ron for, again, no apparent reason at all. In the end, it makes the whole Bonding episode seem pointless.
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Post by DP on Sept 25, 2007 20:50:28 GMT -5
I said in my post that Bonnie's abusive sisters do not justify her actions, they explain them. THANK YOU! That's what I've been trying to say this whole time, but you just said it perfectly!
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Post by Whisper from the Shadows on Sept 25, 2007 21:02:16 GMT -5
I said in my post that Bonnie's abusive sisters do not justify her actions, they explain them. But along this, we know that Bonnie's attitude is partly, if not mostly, a result of her enviorment. I seriously believe she would have grown into a better person without her sisters, and that she might show better traits once she is away from them. Sure, go and put my big long post into simpleton words. Seriously though, thank you.
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Post by kintakat on Sept 25, 2007 21:32:03 GMT -5
I said in my post that Bonnie's abusive sisters do not justify her actions, they explain them. But along this, we know that Bonnie's attitude is partly, if not mostly, a result of her enviorment. I seriously believe she would have grown into a better person without her sisters, and that she might show better traits once she is away from them. Ditto on that! ;]
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Post by lecter on Sept 30, 2007 3:18:00 GMT -5
well since there is no "i dont care option"-i chose "i not sure".i just dont like bonnie at all and am not interested with her charecter in the least.she has no right to treat people the way she does(pushing the other ron before he even got his diploma and talking smart to barking about skipping school.B*tch!).i actually think junioand even larry are to good for her.she is mean,a snob,rude,hippocritical,shallow and bossy.all that cannot be exused by the fact that her sisters are exactly like her
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Sept 30, 2007 14:13:26 GMT -5
if it werent for her sisters, i think she would be nice though
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Post by mike on Oct 1, 2007 8:09:08 GMT -5
hmmm... Siblings do have some extent of influence over a person, so probably yeah... she would be nice or a little more nice...
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 1, 2007 17:05:48 GMT -5
yea, if people at school can drive someone to suicide, then ya, siblings can do that!!!
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Post by Scoutcraft Piratess on Oct 1, 2007 18:07:21 GMT -5
Wow, I just went on a read of this thread, and I find it severely depressing! I don't know if I like thinking about Bonnie that way.
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Post by Firelady Nemo on Oct 2, 2007 20:18:31 GMT -5
lol, we were getting a little deep
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Oct 2, 2007 20:59:33 GMT -5
hmmm... Siblings do have some extent of influence over a person, so probably yeah... she would be nice or a little more nice... Think how Kim would be if Ron wasn't there in her life
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