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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 11:35:16 GMT -5
Fair enough i'll lay off the comments about the kiss
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Post by yvj on Sept 26, 2007 13:46:59 GMT -5
LOL
I nominate this as thread of the year
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 13:51:14 GMT -5
LOL I nominate this as thread of the year Thread of the century, and myself as the forum's most provocative poster
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:22:08 GMT -5
Yeah but the way she used it indicates the first one, believe, basically she's saying that she believes she loves him, but belief is not a confirmation, that's the thing, you could say you believe there is a god, but that doesn't confirm the existence of a god. Believe - transitive verb 1 a : to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears> 2 : to hold as an opinion : SUPPOSE <I believe it will rain soon> Suffice to say the one of the definition of belief to consider to be true or honest is a proof that she directly said "I love you" And yes there is a possibility that she is not, however that can be determined by how serious or how playful her tone was
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:22:55 GMT -5
LOL I nominate this as thread of the year Thread of the century, and myself as the forum's most provocative poster right
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 21:31:11 GMT -5
Yeah but the way she used it indicates the first one, believe, basically she's saying that she believes she loves him, but belief is not a confirmation, that's the thing, you could say you believe there is a god, but that doesn't confirm the existence of a god. Believe - transitive verb 1 a : to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears> 2 : to hold as an opinion : SUPPOSE <I believe it will rain soon> Suffice to say the one of the definition of belief to consider to be true or honest is a proof that she directly said "I love you" And yes there is a possibility that she is not, however that can be determined by how serious or how playful her tone was con·sid·er (kn-sdr) v. con·sid·ered, con·sid·er·ing, con·sid·ers v.tr. 1. To think carefully about. 2. To think or deem to be; regard as. See Usage Note at as1. 3. To form an opinion about; judge: considers waste to be criminal. 4. To take into account; bear in mind: Her success is not surprising if you consider her excellent training. 5. To show consideration for: failed to consider the feelings of others. 6. To esteem; regard. 7. To look at thoughtfully. v.intr. To think carefully; reflect: Give me time to consider.And consider comes back to think , so we've gone the full circle and yet we are still left with it being uncertain in either direction, we can go back and forth on this but that is where it ends up, it is not a definite in either direction, because if she was certain of her feeling the think would not be necessary, she may believe or consider herself to be in love, but there is still doubt evident, otherwise there would have been no need for "I think" Thread of the century, and myself as the forum's most provocative poster right Well this is like the third or fourth thread that this has happened is it not?
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:33:24 GMT -5
As I have said we can't really be certain as the words itself have multiple meanings... the real meaning however can be derieved on HOW they are said...
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:34:27 GMT -5
right Well this is like the third or fourth thread that this has happened is it not? Well my friend, in that case, we should get both the provacative award ;D
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 21:34:35 GMT -5
As I have said we can't really be certain as the words itself have multiple meanings... the real meaning however can be derieved on HOW they are said... And they are said in a way that denotes like, but not necessarily love, like I said we can keep arguing it back and forth, but you haven't shown me anything that tips it over into definite love Well this is like the third or fourth thread that this has happened is it not? Well my friend, in that case, we should get both the provacative award ;D Well you get supporting poster, because after all you guys were targeting me ;D
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:40:26 GMT -5
As I have said we can't really be certain as the words itself have multiple meanings... the real meaning however can be derieved on HOW they are said... And they are said in a way that denotes like, but not necessarily love, like I said we can keep arguing it back and forth, but you haven't shown me anything that tips it over into definite love Hmmmmm..... I see. But considering the "For real" thing that has happened after clearly shows how "serious" the topic was for the both of them. Well my friend, in that case, we should get both the provacative award ;D Well you get supporting poster, because after all you guys were targeting me ;D Hep...hep... for the record, I never targeted you.... I'm targeting your argument
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 21:44:43 GMT -5
And they are said in a way that denotes like, but not necessarily love, like I said we can keep arguing it back and forth, but you haven't shown me anything that tips it over into definite love Hmmmmm..... I see. But considering the "For real" thing that has happened after clearly shows how "serious" the topic was for the both of them. Well you get supporting poster, because after all you guys were targeting me ;D Hep...hep... for the record, I never targeted you.... I'm targeting your argument Ah but like I said, the ambiguity of their comments during the for real part keep the whole thing still ambiguous, since we can only assume what they meant, you of course will assume it your way since you are a K/R shipper and since I am not I will assume it a different way, but neither of us can be certain. True enough, but if I wasn't here would my argument still get you K/R shippers to respond
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:47:30 GMT -5
Ah but like I said, the ambiguity of their comments during the for real part keep the whole thing still ambiguous, since we can only assume what they meant, you of course will assume it your way since you are a K/R shipper and since I am not I will assume it a different way, but neither of us can be certain. It doesn't matter how ambigous the comment was, I was pertaining that why was "For Real?" included if the situation is not as serious as it is.... Why would I respond? I have no argument to target
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 21:53:50 GMT -5
Ah but like I said, the ambiguity of their comments during the for real part keep the whole thing still ambiguous, since we can only assume what they meant, you of course will assume it your way since you are a K/R shipper and since I am not I will assume it a different way, but neither of us can be certain. It doesn't matter how ambigous the comment was, I was pertaining that why was "For Real?" included if the situation is not as serious as it is.... Why would I respond? I have no argument to target First you have to tell me if they were speaking about the same thing and what exactly they were speaking about and prove that, before your question can be answered, because the answer can vary, and you have to prove that both gave it the same level of seriousness, and since those things can't be done then they answer cannot be answered, only speculated on. Hence my point, that without me there would be no argument, so in a way all arguments target the argumenter, indirectly, thier thoughts and beliefs.
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 21:56:08 GMT -5
I said what was the reason why "For Real" was included if it is not that serious in the first place, I believe if it isn't that serious why include "For Real"?
/* Anyway, I'll posting a little later.... Class time now!!! */
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 26, 2007 22:11:25 GMT -5
I said what was the reason why "For Real" was included if it is not that serious in the first place, I believe if it isn't that serious why include "For Real"? /* Anyway, I'll posting a little later.... Class time now!!! */ And as I said you have to confirm some things before you can say why it was serious or even if it was serious, otherwise its just speculation at best. What's your major by the way, or are you still in High school?
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2007 23:23:21 GMT -5
I said what was the reason why "For Real" was included if it is not that serious in the first place, I believe if it isn't that serious why include "For Real"? /* Anyway, I'll posting a little later.... Class time now!!! */ And as I said you have to confirm some things before you can say why it was serious or even if it was serious, otherwise its just speculation at best. What's your major by the way, or are you still in High school? It is serious because Ron wanted to assure her answer... I'm at 2nd year collage, BS ECE...
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 27, 2007 1:51:11 GMT -5
And as I said you have to confirm some things before you can say why it was serious or even if it was serious, otherwise its just speculation at best. What's your major by the way, or are you still in High school? It is serious because Ron wanted to assure her answer... I'm at 2nd year collage, BS ECE... Yeah but are you sure that they were both talking about the love part? Because since we don't know that they were both talking about the same thing, we don't know if Kim was saying the For Real in regards to her saying I think I love you or I remember you. So like I said, we're really just going back and forth here, because we don't know. Cool, good luck with your studies
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Post by mike on Sept 27, 2007 7:14:12 GMT -5
It is serious because Ron wanted to assure her answer... I'm at 2nd year collage, BS ECE... Yeah but are you sure that they were both talking about the love part? Because since we don't know that they were both talking about the same thing, we don't know if Kim was saying the For Real in regards to her saying I think I love you or I remember you. So like I said, we're really just going back and forth here, because we don't know. Cool, good luck with your studies Let's go back a little in the events that has happened in Clean Slate. Kim lost her memory and Ron kept complaining on why she hasn't remembered him that he is her boyfriend. Ron took every chance he got to point it out that they were dating. Now lets go forward to the train scene. Kim: Ron, I remember that you're my boyfriend and that I think that I love you. Ron: For Real? Kim: For Real. (hugs) Ron: Now this is a memory. Ron's response: "Now this is a memory" clearly shows that he was talking about the things that has happened between the two of them as people who are dating because Kim has already affirmed that she remembers him during the time Ron gave her flowers. going back to the scene: Ron: So you know who I am? Kim: Of course I do, you are my bestfriend. We do everything together. This scene shows that Kim has remembered Ron as her bestfriend but not as her boyfriend. Ron's mention of "Now this is a memory" shows that he was pertaining to the period when he and Kim are boyfriend and girlfriend, because that was the only memory left unsolved. Now back to the "For Real" situation. The "For Real?" question asked by Ron is related in a way to the earlier to the statement Kim said earlier and Kim's response was to affirm that question. However, that is not the point. The "For Real" there was placed as a sign on how serious the first statement really is unless the tone of voice used on that "For Real?" is playful (going back to the fallacy of intonation) and/or Kim's answer itself. Hence, the use of the "For Real" in that situation is to state how serious the primary statement really was because without the "For Real": Kim: Ron, I remember that you're my boyfriend and that I think that I love (hug, but no response after) makes the statement less serious but with the "For Real", the statement is taken more seriously and only by the seriousness of the statement can we really derive the meaning definition denoted by the word "think".
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Post by yvj on Sept 27, 2007 10:54:42 GMT -5
So I was sitting in a Corporate management class today bored out of my skull when my thoughts drifted to how much time I spent on this thread. And I wondered. Am I crazy? I mean debate is all well and good. But spending five or six pages (which is like a couple of hours in RL) battling against one person is more than a bit ridiculous. (Here's hoping I take my own advice) And it sort of makes the ship look bad. Because if you're going to let a few ideas (from one person in this case) over some details get you all hot and bothered then do you really have a good amount of faith in the ship? I mean what's going to happen? Are the VIP's going to wander in here see Avin's thoughts, go "Holy Crap!" and then rewrite two seasons worth of development, ignore their original designs and intentions for the characters, and undo all the work they put into the show? No I don't think so........ It's annoying to have someone constantly questioning what you enjoy. But it's akin to having Mosquitoes in the summertime. Yes the Mosquitoes make you itch in frustration but should you stand there for days trying to swat every last bug in you area? Are the Mosquitoes going to undermine your overall enjoyment of the summer and make you swear off it forever? (If the answer is yes then you never truly enjoyed summers in the first place.) Hell K/R ain't perfect, (as a fan I really dig it obviously) it has a few issues. But the truth is you can find problems and holes in anything (reality + fiction) including love affairs of all types Allow me to summarize this thread in a most likely unfunny manner Internet Nerd One: Romeo and Juliet were so in love Internet Nerd Two: Where they or did Juliet have a psychological need to - off her family? Internet Nerd One: WTF? what are you talking about? They killed themselves for each other Internet Nerd Two: I think it's pretty evident that Juliet wanted to die anyway. Because if you notice in Act one Scene she etc etc....Another point is in her monologue here yadda yadda yadda..........Which leads one to one believe she would have fallen in love with anyone who smiled at her in the right way Internet Nerd one. S.T.F.U she said she loved him right before she killed herself. Internet Nerd Two: Ah but if you remember correctly in Act 4 scene 4 she etc etc .....Besides "love" had a different connotation in that era....etc etc......and to the logical eye this clearly means old chap that you are blinded by your optimistic romanticisms. Internet Nerd one: IT"S LOVE! Didn't you feel the emotion and passion of their words, the romance the tension, that fact that they couldn't bear to be without each so they took their own lives. Internet Nerd Two: Any two strangers can enjoy passion and romance at one point or another.....Prove to me that it's love Internet Nerd one: WHAT? THEY KILLED THEMSELVES FOR EACH OTHER A-HOLE! You're just a H8ter it's obviously love of the highest kind Internet Nerd: Is it obvious? Or is it more likely that the seemingly indisputable logic and irrefutable analysis of the human psyche that I provided have you dumbfounded which is causing your entire world to come crashing down around you!........... Oh and BTW I think Juliet is a skank FIN...... So in conclusion when this thread is eventually locked three things will still be set in stone. 1) AvinashTyagi and others will think what they think 2) K/R Shippers will scorn him forever and still think what they think 3) Graduation will have ended with Kim and Ron together. ;D They didn't break up. And it's almost certain we'll never see them breakup (out side of fan fiction) on the show. Sure there are a few issues you can point out but in the very end (it's indisputable) they're very together and they're happy. When you win the lottery it shouldn't ruin your day because someone happens to mention the lottery is a tool of Capitalist oppression. Whether it is may or may not be true....what is true is that you're freaking rich, and you should enjoy the moment you have because God knows what others would do for it. Wait that analogy didn't really make sense....... Oh well and that my friends is what I think about instead of worrying about my GPA
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Post by AvinashTyagi on Sept 27, 2007 11:41:34 GMT -5
Yeah but are you sure that they were both talking about the love part? Because since we don't know that they were both talking about the same thing, we don't know if Kim was saying the For Real in regards to her saying I think I love you or I remember you. So like I said, we're really just going back and forth here, because we don't know. Cool, good luck with your studies Let's go back a little in the events that has happened in Clean Slate. Kim lost her memory and Ron kept complaining on why she hasn't remembered him that he is her boyfriend. Ron took every chance he got to point it out that they were dating. Now lets go forward to the train scene. Kim: Ron, I remember that you're my boyfriend and that I think that I love you. Ron: For Real? Kim: For Real. (hugs) Ron: Now this is a memory. Ron's response: "Now this is a memory" clearly shows that he was talking about the things that has happened between the two of them as people who are dating because Kim has already affirmed that she remembers him during the time Ron gave her flowers. going back to the scene: Ron: So you know who I am? Kim: Of course I do, you are my bestfriend. We do everything together. This scene shows that Kim has remembered Ron as her bestfriend but not as her boyfriend. Ron's mention of "Now this is a memory" shows that he was pertaining to the period when he and Kim are boyfriend and girlfriend, because that was the only memory left unsolved. Now back to the "For Real" situation. The "For Real?" question asked by Ron is related in a way to the earlier to the statement Kim said earlier and Kim's response was to affirm that question. However, that is not the point. The "For Real" there was placed as a sign on how serious the first statement really is unless the tone of voice used on that "For Real?" is playful (going back to the fallacy of intonation) and/or Kim's answer itself. Hence, the use of the "For Real" in that situation is to state how serious the primary statement really was because without the "For Real": Kim: Ron, I remember that you're my boyfriend and that I think that I love (hug, but no response after) makes the statement less serious but with the "For Real", the statement is taken more seriously and only by the seriousness of the statement can we really derive the meaning definition denoted by the word "think". Actually when Kim said she remebered him as her best friend she also got his name wrong, plus she didn't remember a lot of memories from before they were dating, which means she didn't really remember him, she was just saying she did, so in fact she was lying to him. So like I said we haven't confirmed anything from the I think I love you" scene Yes, but don't take it too hard ;D We all are
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