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Post by apoptosis on Jan 7, 2006 2:43:32 GMT -5
Exactly! Just because someone is inclined a certain way, doesn't automatically preclude romantic or sexual intentions. I mean, several of my best friends are women, even roomed with one of them in college. And not every woman is going to turn on a woman inclined that way. So it's easy to believe that if Kim was inclined that way, that maybe Monique just doesn't do it for her while Shego would. Still don't like most Kigo, but I sure seem to like arguing in favour, don't I? You roomed with women in college? You brave brave soul.  And yes, you are. And you're doing a good job too, I might add! Thanks; I won't complain.  |
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Post by zaratan on Jan 7, 2006 3:02:07 GMT -5
Yes, I did. For the most part, it was fine. I like to cook, she was a clean freak, so we balanced well on the chores.
What I really wish though was better... soundproofing between the bedrooms. The heating vent passed right through the bedrooms, creating almost a channel for sound... and with her boyfriend... she was loud. Of course, I quickly got used to playing music at night!
The only time I really enjoy these types of stories is when it is handled in this manner. It also helps that I seem to be one of those people that is good at helping people, and have had a couple friends come out to me before they did so with their family, so I know what they went through and how they felt.
I'll read any pairing so long as it is handled well (though there was this one Rufus/Kim story.... WRONGSICK).
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Post by surforst on Jan 7, 2006 3:49:59 GMT -5
I'll read any pairing so long as it is handled well (though there was this one Rufus/Kim story.... WRONGSICK). So you read that fic too. I wonder if the author ever got the help he so needed. Though I got to say even though the story left me creeped out the reviews had me cracking up. Especially the one about showing the story to his shrink. Classic. ;D As for Kigo...I've got nothing new to add. Sorry. |
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Post by Prof. Demizle on Jan 7, 2006 10:40:35 GMT -5
Ahh, AP English, I remember that! I loved that class - my favorites were Handmaid's Tale, Animal Dreams, The Things They Carried, Picture of Dorian Grey, 1984, Brave New World, and Jane Eyre. And I will always remember Slaughterhouse Five - jumping from character to character, and time zone to time zone - it was particularly mind-boggling. Fabulously brilliant, and totally mind-boggling. What pieces are you reading? I hope some of the same; they are really good reads! I've read and written a report on 1984 and right now I technically should be writing a report on Heart Of Darkness but I'm lazy. Slaughterhouse Five is set up for us to read later this year but right now we are on the Romantic period. The class is awesome.  |
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jan 7, 2006 12:46:11 GMT -5
I'll read any pairing so long as it is handled well (though there was this one Rufus/Kim story.... WRONGSICK). I think I can beat you on that one - there was this Rufus/Ron story... oh, I'll let you imagine that one. (yes, I am *so* evil....) |
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Post by zaratan on Jan 7, 2006 13:07:49 GMT -5
Anyways... away from the bestiality here.
Kigo can be done well, and believably. Allaine's work is a prime example of that, and is actually one of the only Kigo fics I look forward to reading when I see it on FF.net.
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Post by apoptosis on Jan 7, 2006 13:21:06 GMT -5
I'll read any pairing so long as it is handled well (though there was this one Rufus/Kim story.... WRONGSICK). I think I can beat you on that one - there was this Rufus/Ron story... oh, I'll let you imagine that one. (yes, I am *so* evil....) *raises hand meekly, coughs softly* Read both of those.  |
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Post by cloudmonet on Jan 7, 2006 14:43:22 GMT -5
Roughly. As in, that is what was shown on the show, but a slightly or wildly different variation is what probably "really" happened.
Go for it. As I look at this scenario again and what it would mean-- Kim really does have a way larger portion of her young life than normal invested in one guy. If Ron were to let her down in some way she couldn't foresee and didn't understand, Kim might be very confused and open to a complete change in her life.
As for Shego, she's already radically changed her life once, just because being a member of Team Go drove her crazy. If there were to be no season four, I'd say it was possible the legal complications stemming from the diablo robot fiasco (or in the presence of season 4, some future fiasco) would put Shego in a position of being forced to either marry Drakken so she couldn't be turned against him, or to turn against him. Either choice would have far reaching consequences.
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Post by aridblue on Jan 8, 2006 8:39:30 GMT -5
I'll read any pairing so long as it is handled well (though there was this one Rufus/Kim story.... WRONGSICK). Oh man, I don't know why I found that statement incredibly funny |
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Post by Nightspade on Jan 8, 2006 20:35:23 GMT -5
I still have nightmares from that story. Horrible, horrible nightmares.
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Post by Aers (That Writer Chick) on Jan 9, 2006 7:37:12 GMT -5
here, sweetie... have some hot coco-moo... ah, the trauma we suffer in the name of fandom... |
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Post by Nightspade on Jan 9, 2006 17:25:16 GMT -5
*Drinks coco-moo.* I know! *Sobs.* First it was Drakkenfan's special way of introducing Drakkim to me (with good artwork, but a disturbing concept). *Sobs.* And now this!! *Sobs.*
EVABPC (Evil Villains And Bad People's Club): Why is he a member!!?
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Post by allaine on Jan 9, 2006 18:42:16 GMT -5
I think for me the crucial element is time, but then I think "time" is important to virtually any story that involves a romantic coupling that hasn't already taken place in canon.
And by time I don't mean "several years have passed so Kim isn't a teenager any more". Although granted, I think a majority of your audience is going to be uncomfortable with the notion of Kim having a sexual relationship with an older woman. Actually, I imagine many people would be uncomfortable with Kim having a sexual relationship with ANYbody at her age, including Ron.
I just think that if you want to pair up two people who've shown no (overt) interest in each other, who in fact have given us every reason to believe that they dislike each other immensely, then you can't have them falling in love with three days. They need time just to get past the mutual animosity and SEE each other as objects of attraction/affection before love, which is a slowly evolving process, can eventually bloom.
Kim and Shego hooking up one week after StD? Er, no.
A month? Doubtful. Six? Maybe. A year?
Well, a lot can happen in a year.
Which, btw, is one reason why I firmly believe that Ron's presence should NOT be considered an automatic roadblock in a Kim/Shego relationship, UNLESS Kim and Ron are involved. Are they involved at the end of StD? Apparently so. Will they be involved in a year? Well, technically speaking we don't know that, since the show has not gone beyond prom night. But while it's certainly very possible, it's by no means set in stone. Ron Stoppable is a guy who, only recently, was telling Kim in "Emotion Sickness" that he didn't want to complicate friendships with romance. Who showed every mark of disappointment in "Gorilla Fist" when he discovered Yori was interested in him and he'd missed it.
And that's entirely ignoring the fact that high school is a place where kids are typically making their first experiments with love and dating and flirting and relationships. And they break up all the time. How many high school sweethearts do you know that were still together five, or even one year later?
I'm not saying that K/R are doomed to failure. I'm just saying that down the road, there's no reason why they can't have simply broken up, followed by some awkward days or weeks and an eventual return to the land of Best Friend-dom.
Which, again, is why it's easier if time has passed. Will Ron be an obstacle to a K/S pairing? Much more likely he's still involved with Kim a month after StD, than it is a year after.
And I think there needs to be a major change of the status quo. At this point, there's no real reason WHY either woman would suddenly start asking herself, "Could I possibly have feelings for this person?" Crisis, change, lives being turned upside-down. That's what makes people question things. I'm not saying we need character death or anything, but SOMEthing needs to throw these two people together and make them see that they have qualities they can be attracted to.
(Unless you want to argue they've been secretly in love with each other all this time, and once you go there, there are simply too many people who won't be able to buy that. I can buy it, I suppose, but it's not as satisfying.)
This is going to sound horribly immodest, but honestly, my favorite Kigo stories are ones that unfold like mine. Years had passed, their lives had changed in important ways, they were forced to spend a great deal of time together, they found common ground, and eventually after much time had passed, romance grew out of friendship.
Anyway, that's just me. I'll give (almost) ANY Kigo concept a shot, but there are some really bad Kigo stories out there just like there are bad K/R stories.
Sincerely, Allaine
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Post by cloudmonet on Jan 10, 2006 0:24:47 GMT -5
By "So the Drama," Kim's 17. I've made love with two different 17 year old girls myself both in 1972, in the months after my 18 year old girlfriend moved out. I'd be most hypocritical to display discomfort at the idea. And oops, wasn't that approximately the age gap between Kim and Shego? My present girlfriend is 50, and no one thinks anything about that. She could be 40 and no one would think anything's weird.
Maybe Shego's 25 and Kim's 17, but one more year and Kim can do whatever she wants.
The real barrior to get past would be Kim's and Shego's present web of relationships. Allaine's got the right idea. I'd say it probably would take at least five years for the necessary changes to occur.
Me, I'd much rather keep Kim and Ron together. Five years down the road from "So the Drama," they'll be graduating from college, and probably getting married if they aren't married already.
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Post by apoptosis on Jan 10, 2006 0:35:01 GMT -5
One thing that I always wondered about, and not necessarily because it would be a road block to a Kigo relationship occuring, but just something that always bothered me was how fast Kim and Ron got together at the end of STD (and we really really really need a new acronym for that). Eric was her first serious boyfriend, and what a shock to her, then WHAM, she's with Ron. Even from a viewpoint of someone who ships K/R, I still think that rebound was a bit hasty. >.> Of course, maybe its just me, which is also possible.
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Post by fazhou on Jan 10, 2006 0:57:24 GMT -5
Well, I think that's because they wanted to "surprise" us with that ending, and also from the start I think they wanted the ending to be: "Kim and Ron kiss. Fade to black." Which sounds great in theory, but when it plays out makes us feel like something's lacking.
I think just a couple of additional lines would have made all the difference in the world. Kim didn't need to recite a dissertation, but the kiss followed by around twenty words by Kim about why she realized Ron was the one for her, followed by a longer kiss and fade to black, would have given us more of a sense of finality.
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Post by thelastsonof84 on Jan 10, 2006 1:48:53 GMT -5
'Xactly. The way it was presented in the movie, to me at least, made it look like Kim was just settling for Ron. Not reassuring in the least. I doubt that will be the case in Season 4, but again, thank God for it in that case, as StD didn't do the idea justice in my eyes.
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Post by allaine on Jan 10, 2006 8:51:27 GMT -5
I have certain issues with the last fifteen minutes of StD (especially with Kim's reckless handling of Shego in the end - if this wasn't kids TV, Shego would be dead dead dead), but it's my suspicion that the creators saw StD as the series finale and wanted to use the opportunity to add some closure. Kim and Ron as a romantic pairing always struck me as somewhat inevitable, and well, if they didn't get together THEN, then without a season 4 they weren't going to get together ever. "Give the fans what they want" before it's too late.
Because I thought it was out of left field too.
Sincerely, Allaine
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Post by apoptosis on Jan 10, 2006 21:42:24 GMT -5
Good thoughts everyone; thanks for contributing! I have way too many ideas now! |
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Post by cloudmonet on Jan 11, 2006 1:37:15 GMT -5
Kim didn't settle for Ron. She embraced him wholeheartedly. This isn't the story of a girl accepting her childhood friend as second best when her dreamboat turned out to be a fake filled with green goop. This is the story of how she realized said childhood friend really was the man she was looking for.
"So the Drama" has got to be singularly hard for Kim/Shego shippers to take, because the hatred between Kim and Shego is whipped up to I'm-gonna-wound-you fury, while Kim and Ron...
I really hope it works out well for Kim and Ron, and do believe they've got a lot going in their favor. But if Ron really changed for some reason-- in the scenario I proposed above Ron loses his sense of humor and becomes a really hardnosed cop. If what Kim loves about Ron isn't there anymore, dissention and breakup could ensue. I'd say it's ferociously unlikely, given how extremely well Kim and Ron know each other, but it is possible, and gives you a route to a bisexual/lesbian Kim that doesn't deny or refute what we see in the show.
Of course, the more seasons of Kim in which we see her happy together with Ron, the less likely a Kim/Ron breakup becomes. Marriages of childhood sweethearts (and it's likely they'll later look back at it this way, whatever their actual jargon was at the time) are rare in today's fleeting world, but when they do happen tend to be way more stable and durable than the average marriage.
Make Kim 25, Shego 30, and Ron drifting out of character as he ages, and I might believe Kim/Shego could happen, based on the present sitch. After season 4, it may or may not still seem possible.
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